Peterlag
Active Member
It was written by a student who learned it from the same teacher I grew up with. The data has been known to both of us since we were teenagers.
The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning
- Thread starter Runningman
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Peterlag
Active Member
Here's some folks commenting on the logos in John 1:1...
If we look back at Genesis, God created the heavens and earth and then he created light: 'And God said, "Let there be light". This initial act of creation is spoken into being - it is the word of God. Throughout the following chapters of Genesis, we get the repetition of 'God said ...'. The creative act is the spoken word of God. It is the divine will which is shown through the word of God in this spoken act of creation. So, 'word' can be seen as the divine utterance, the initial impulse of creation. When John describes Jesus as the 'word made flesh', perhaps he is suggesting that Jesus is the manifestation of that divine impulse to creation. It doesn't need to mean that the person of Jesus was there at the beginning; it means that the divine will was there at the beginning, and the divine will was made incarnate in the person of Jesus. Note, that it is the spoken word of God that bestows authority upon Jesus at his baptism: 'This is my son'.
Similarly, 'word' can be read as meaning commandment - it is the command of God that brings light etc. into being. Commandment, of course, links with the notion of law. And the law of the commandments was handed to Moses on tablets of stone - the written word of god. Jesus, of course, is the embodiment of that law, the incarnation of the commandments - the word made flesh to fulfill the law.
So we have the spoken word of God as the divine commandment that brings all things into being, the written word of God given to Moses, the voice of God at Jesus's baptism, and ultimately the living Word of God in the person of Jesus.
None of this needs Jesus to be pre-existent.
Written by: Stephen
John is the only apostle who tries to connect Jesus to the word of God. Neither Matthew, Mark or Luke connect Jesus to the word of God in any way whatsoever. So the synoptic gospels are in full agreement and contain a gospel absent any logos christology, this is devastatingly crushing to your view and the Trinitarian view, which you are in agreement with.
The simple explanation for John's use of logos is that it's obviously a symbolic representation. John calls Jesus a shepherd, light, door, bread etc. none of these metaphors are to be taken literally and no other Apostle ever alludes to or ever mentions this connection to the logos, not Paul or Peter or anyone in the book of Acts, nor in any of the epistles. Jesus even denied being the literal word of God repeatedly in John's gospel. Does his opinion matter or just yours? The nail in the coffin, not once did Jesus ever claim to be the logos, he said the logos was his Father's and he was just the vehicle of that word. You said: "The broader New Testament consistently depicts the Logos..." that's a falsehood.
Written by: David
Oh the Greek teaches the Trinity. That's cool since I cannot find a verse in English that actually calls Jesus God the Son.
Or...
An English verse that actually says Jesus is a god-man.
An English verse that actually says we must believe Jesus is God.
An English verse that actually says we must believe God is three persons.
An English verse out of approximately 31,102 Bible verses that says God is Triune.
An English verse that actually says Jesus is both 100 percent God and 100 percent man.
An English verse that actually says Jesus is God because if it's that important of a doctrine it should have been plainly and clearly taught by someone somewhere.
Written by: Peter
He’s not the Logos. He fulfilled the Logos. Learn what words mean then apply them.
Written by: Stacy
If we look back at Genesis, God created the heavens and earth and then he created light: 'And God said, "Let there be light". This initial act of creation is spoken into being - it is the word of God. Throughout the following chapters of Genesis, we get the repetition of 'God said ...'. The creative act is the spoken word of God. It is the divine will which is shown through the word of God in this spoken act of creation. So, 'word' can be seen as the divine utterance, the initial impulse of creation. When John describes Jesus as the 'word made flesh', perhaps he is suggesting that Jesus is the manifestation of that divine impulse to creation. It doesn't need to mean that the person of Jesus was there at the beginning; it means that the divine will was there at the beginning, and the divine will was made incarnate in the person of Jesus. Note, that it is the spoken word of God that bestows authority upon Jesus at his baptism: 'This is my son'.
Similarly, 'word' can be read as meaning commandment - it is the command of God that brings light etc. into being. Commandment, of course, links with the notion of law. And the law of the commandments was handed to Moses on tablets of stone - the written word of god. Jesus, of course, is the embodiment of that law, the incarnation of the commandments - the word made flesh to fulfill the law.
So we have the spoken word of God as the divine commandment that brings all things into being, the written word of God given to Moses, the voice of God at Jesus's baptism, and ultimately the living Word of God in the person of Jesus.
None of this needs Jesus to be pre-existent.
Written by: Stephen
John is the only apostle who tries to connect Jesus to the word of God. Neither Matthew, Mark or Luke connect Jesus to the word of God in any way whatsoever. So the synoptic gospels are in full agreement and contain a gospel absent any logos christology, this is devastatingly crushing to your view and the Trinitarian view, which you are in agreement with.
The simple explanation for John's use of logos is that it's obviously a symbolic representation. John calls Jesus a shepherd, light, door, bread etc. none of these metaphors are to be taken literally and no other Apostle ever alludes to or ever mentions this connection to the logos, not Paul or Peter or anyone in the book of Acts, nor in any of the epistles. Jesus even denied being the literal word of God repeatedly in John's gospel. Does his opinion matter or just yours? The nail in the coffin, not once did Jesus ever claim to be the logos, he said the logos was his Father's and he was just the vehicle of that word. You said: "The broader New Testament consistently depicts the Logos..." that's a falsehood.
Written by: David
Oh the Greek teaches the Trinity. That's cool since I cannot find a verse in English that actually calls Jesus God the Son.
Or...
An English verse that actually says Jesus is a god-man.
An English verse that actually says we must believe Jesus is God.
An English verse that actually says we must believe God is three persons.
An English verse out of approximately 31,102 Bible verses that says God is Triune.
An English verse that actually says Jesus is both 100 percent God and 100 percent man.
An English verse that actually says Jesus is God because if it's that important of a doctrine it should have been plainly and clearly taught by someone somewhere.
Written by: Peter
He’s not the Logos. He fulfilled the Logos. Learn what words mean then apply them.
Written by: Stacy
Doug Brents
Active Member
That explains it. You have been indoctrinated by a false teacher. I read the first couple of lines and it is nothing more than what you have been parroting on this forum for weeks.
In John 14:26, Jesus calls the Holy Spirit He, and He says that the Father will send the Holy Spirit in Jesus' name.
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and remind you of all that I said to you."
Then in John 15:26, Jesus again calls the Holy Spirit a He, and states that He (Jesus) will send the Holy Spirit FROM the Father.
"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me"
Your teacher is not teaching accurate Scriptural Truth. He is teaching false doctrines.
I looked briefly at some of peterlag's website(s). It is some weird non-Christian spiritist topic. I could not read further into it since the material was so foreign to scripture.
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