civic
Active Member
except you have a human biological father, Jesus did not. Huge difference.
The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning
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Peterlag
Active Member
What I was saying is all of what you said is not true. Not any part of what I said was not true. Nothing was changed about what I said.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Peter, Peter , Peter.
Jesus was not born like every other human. Mary was a virgin when she conceived and Mary ws still intact until Jesus came from her. That is no other woman in history nor ever will be.
Now are you saying Jesus is not Holy? You only name God and the Spirit.
God the Father is not God the Holy Spirit. First off... if God the Father is God the Holy Spirit how did Mary get impregnated?
Luke tells us
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Sont you just love the way Jimmy's men called Jesus that holy thing?????????????????/_
Mary did NOT get pregnant because “the Father came down”
Bible says “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.”It does not say:
“The Father entered you”, “God Himself became the baby”, “The Father was incarnated”
It says the Holy Spirit came upon her and God’s power overshadowed her.
That is God acting through His Spirit — not God becoming the Spirit.
God and His Spirit are not the same
Yes, God and His Spirit are one in being, but they are not the same person.The Holy Spirit is...
God’s presence, God’s power, God’s breath, God’s agent
But Scripture never calls the Spirit “the Father.”
In fact:
In Gal 4:6 “God sent the Spirit of His Son…” and in John 14:26 “The Father will send the Spirit…”
One sends.... One is sent.... And That means they are not the same person.
Doug Brents
Active Member
But the fact remains that not ALL of what I said is untrue (I made a statement within what you said was untrue that you agree is true. Which makes your accusation false.
And as demonstrated to you through Scripture, a good portion of what you said IS untrue. And all of what I said it, in fact, true.
Peterlag
Active Member
What part of the below statement did you comment on that I said was true or not true?
Jesus was born from a woman like every other human. God is Holy and He's also Spirit which is why He is often called The Holy Spirit. What part of this do you not understand?
Peterlag
Active Member
Can we get out of the idea that words like "God" and "Father" are living creatures? And start to realize they are names and titles? I am not a father, brother, uncle, or son. I'm a human.
Doug Brents
Active Member
How many times do I have to repeat myself?
Yes, Jesus was born of a woman. But Jesus was not born "like every other human". He was born of a virgin woman, without the input, consent, interaction, or desire of a man. His spirit was not created in the instant of conception like every other human's. Jesus' spirit came from Heaven to inhabit the body made for Him by the Holy Spirit. His spirit existed before He was born (otherwise He could not say that before Abraham was born He exited), and His spirit was there with God (and was God) being responsible for creating everything that was created. That makes His birth unique.
The Holy Spirit is not the same as the Father. The Holy Spirit is completely separate, and a distinct person from the Father. Notice in Matt 28:19 that the Holy Spirit is listed as separate from the Father and Son. Notice that when Jesus was baptized, the Father spoke from Heaven, Jesus came up out of the water on Earth, and the Spirit came down on Jesus like a dove: three separate manifestations, persons, beings interacting together.
The parts of your post above that are bolded are the only true parts of the post. Everything that is not bolded is FALSE!
Doug Brents
Active Member
Wait a minute? You never had a father? Or is it that you are not a male person? If you are a male and you were born, then you are a son. You may never have had children, so you may not be a father. Your parents may not have had siblings who had children, so you may not be an uncle. You may not have had siblings so you may not be a brother. but if you are male you most certainly are a son. You can be more than just "human".
And names and titles are very important. God most certainly is a living creature/being. Life cannot come from non-life. And we are alive (having a living spirit within us) which means that God is alive (because our spirit came from Him).
FreeInChrist
Active Member
That is a great way to deny who is what.
" I am not a father, brother, uncle, or son. I'm a human." What are your preferred pronouns... "Us, We, They and Them?"
Can we get out of the idea that words like "God" and "Father" are living creatures?
Creatures......
Luke 1: 35 Jimmy's book.
5 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Thing.......
That says it all.
Peterlag
Active Member
What would be on the label of the package of my blood if I gave some to the Red Cross?
1.) Father blood
2.) Uncle blood
3.) Son blood
4.) Human blood
Peterlag
Active Member
What is a father?
Doug Brents
Active Member
In terms of Christ Jesus, the Father is the person of God to whom Jesus submitted when He emptied Himself of His glory, independent use of His power, and authority. The term does not indicate parenthood or descendance.
In terms of humanity, a father is the man responsible for the seed which formed his descendant.
Peterlag
Active Member
The English word "Father" is not a person. It's a name... a title. You will find the word "Human blood" on the package if you were to give blood. Not "Father blood." This should have been taught in second grade.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Father is the name which some children use for the man who raises them (others use Dad, Daddy, Poppa, Pa, Abba, etc.). It is not just a title, but the name by which they know him. What even is a name, but a specific title for a specific person.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
In your case might be canned blood.
Peterlag
Active Member
What you fail to understand is that the word "God" or "Father" are just that. Names and titles and do not tell us what God is.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Correct. And that means that from them just those names you cannot tell who/what God is or is not. Thus, we must look at other statements in Scripture that tell us who/what God is.
God is Light - 1 John 1:5
Jesus is Light - John 1:4, 7
God is the creator - Gen 1
Jesus is the creator - John 1:3
God has always existed - Psalm 90:2
Jesus has always existed - John 1:1, Rev 1:8
I could go on and on. There can be no debate or dispute on this. Jesus is God.
amazing grace
Active Member
The Father is God some 1,291x in the New Testament scripture........being generous Jesus is 'God' some 10x in New Testament scripture.
If the purpose of scripture is to make the point that Jesus is God - How's it doing?
If we had NO history of creeds and ONLY regarded the scripture as truth then I don't know if we can truly say that it has scripture has proven the point that Jesus is God.
What I believe we do clearly see as being proven through scripture is that God gave his only Son - Jesus was born, lived and died - God laid on him the iniquity of us all....He was put to grief being made an offering for our guilt....out of the anquish of his soul....many were accounted righteous and he bore our iniquities.....he poured out his soul to death bearing the sins of many and he makes intercession for the transgressors......God raised him from the dead and because His Son, His servant acted wisely, God highly exalted him and set him at his own right hand, the right hand of the Father.
Doug Brents
Active Member
If Scripture says something, even once, then it is 100% certain, take it to the bank, positively TRUTH!The Father is God some 1,291x in the New Testament scripture........being generous Jesus is 'God' some 10x in New Testament scripture.
If the purpose of scripture is to make the point that Jesus is God - How's it doing?
If we had NO history of creeds and ONLY regarded the scripture as truth then I don't know if we can truly say that it has scripture has proven the point that Jesus is God.
That is all true, but what we also see is that it was part of God (the Logos of God (John 1:1)), that created all that is (John 1:3), left Heaven (John 6:38), emptied Himself (Phil 2:7), became subservient to the Father (Phil 2:6-8), and was then raised back to where He was before.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
The question of what God is has been approached in countless ways across different religions, philosophies, and personal beliefs. Generally speaking, God is often described in terms of attributes, experiences, and relationships rather than in definitive, limited terms. Many traditions present God as:
Transcendent: Beyond human comprehension and existing outside of time and space.
Immanent: Present and active within the world and within all living beings.
Omniscient: All-knowing, with complete knowledge of the past, present, and future.
Omnipotent: All-powerful, capable of anything.
Omnibenevolent: All-good, embodying the highest moral perfection.
Different cultures and spiritual systems also frame God through various titles, metaphors, or roles. For example
The Creator in many Abrahamic religions.
The Divine Presence or The Source in mystical traditions.
The Self or Atman in certain Eastern philosophies, like Hinduism.
The Absolute or The Ground of Being in existential and process philosophy.
Ultimately, what God is might depend on your own perspective or worldview, and the search for understanding God is often viewed as a personal, deeply transformative journey.
None of these above are me. ARE THEY YOU?
That God is the eternal everlasting spirit who designed and created us to love and be loved through a future eternity of companionship with Him, and the Son, who is also God, and the Holy Spirit the third in the Godhead.
I say this because of my personal relationship with Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirits relationship within me.
IOW
God is the eternal, self-existent Spirit, the source of all life and being. He did not create out of need, but out of love. Within God Himself is relationship—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—perfect love shared eternally. Out of that overflowing love, He designed and created us to know Him, to love, and to be loved, and to share in that life forever.
The Father is the origin and will of love.
The Son, who is fully God, reveals that love in a way we can see and touch—entering creation, sharing our nature, and restoring broken relationship.
The Holy Spirit, also fully God, makes that relationship real and living within us—guiding, comforting, and transforming us.
So God is not just power, or law, or mystery alone.
God is personal, relational, and eternal love, inviting human beings into an unending companionship with Himself.
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