The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[Doug Brents]

No Jesus did not have all power and authority before God gave it to him.

Then of what did Jesus empty Himself before He left Heaven?

And if Jesus is God and he emptied himself of his divine preogatives as God at that point he quit being God which is also contrary to what others have said - Jesus never quit being God.

Jesus never ceased to be God, that is true. But the fact that He emptied Himself of the independent use of His power, His glory, His knowledge, His omnipresence, etc. does not mean that He ceased to be God. He had all those things, and laid them down of His own free will. They were not stripped from Him.

Jesus was not eternal...... Jesus was born and Jesus died - God raised him from the dead thus Jesus became a life giving spirit --

Jesus was always the LIFE GIVING SPIRIT. He is the source of all life and of everything that is (John 1:3). The human manifestation of Jesus was born, and died. But that is not His Spirit, which preceded creation.

Because Jesus was a human mortal being with a physical human body that could and did die.
Jesus' spirit did not come from Heaven before his birth - a human being has a natural, physical body first before having a spiritual body.
1 Cor. 14:42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory.
14:43 It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.
14:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
14:45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
14:46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.

Are you saying that God is not Jesus' Father?

I am saying that God (the Father) is not the parent of Jesus. The Father is not Jesus' progenitor.

Are you saying that Jesus was not conceived by the Holy Spirit the power of the Most High?

Not at all. Jesus' human form was indeed conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit.

You believe that Jesus literally existed before he was conceived - I believe he preexisted in the foreknowledge, in the mind and plan of God.

Yes, I believe, as Scripture says, that Jesus literally existed with the Father as God in Heaven before He was conceived in Mary.

Jesus knew that he had come from God - that God was his Father - and he knew that when he was resurrected he would be exalted to the right hand of God his Father.....

The reason that Jesus' sacrifice was sufficient for all humanity is the reason stated in Romans 5 and elsewhere in scripture. It is not because he was infinite and eternal .... an infinite and eternal being cannot die for the sins of mankind!!!

It can if it empties itself of it eternal, infinite nature, and submits itself to being a mortal human (which is exactly what Jesus did).

Jesus had a beginning Matthew and Luke record Jesus beginning and he had an end - his death on the cross which made salvation available to each and every person in the world and God raised him from the dead and highly exalted him to his own right hand --- That is our hope of resurrection and new life in the age to come.

If Jesus had an end, then He cannot be our savior, for He is still in the ground (1 Cor 15:14-19) and our faith is in vain. And Jesus did not have His beginning when He was born (or even when He was conceived) because He came from Heaven before that, and He existed in Heaven before that, and He was the source of all creation before that.

 

[mikesw]

Scripture does not teach God as a Triune being, person, etc. No one has yet produced a scripture that clearly and succinctly presents their case. Go ahead famous words of yours --- hyperliteralist!!! One would at least expect a FEW scriptures that clearly and succinctly presented their doctrine.

Really? The unitarian has to neglect obvious meaning for some hidden message. The only thing that was required to expose the unitarian misconception was showing the preexistent One who became incarnate. John does that. Jesus is shown pre-existing in continuity. Unitarians cannot erase enough scripture to make their arguments stick.

If preexistence was not the author's intention in John 1 --- then no one is a liar.
I believe the author of John says that the 'Word' was in the beginning with God just as wisdom was in the beginning with God.
Jesus is the Son of God ---- He is not as old as God his Father.

oh wow. an old god and a younger god? Not sure how one arrives at that.

No one skips verses --- there was no private doctrine created ---- Isaiah did not lie just as John did not lie.

oh my. you missed the realization that the logos in John builds upon and corrects the logos of Philo and the Greek philosophers who identified a conscious co-creator. John adds more specifically the preexistent One who became incarnate. If John meant wisdom, then he would have inserted wisdom there. John would have used sophias instead of logos so as to follow Psalm 8 directly. It takes too much reinterpretation and distortion to be a unitarian.