Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

[Runningman]

The Old Testament is not out of line when it recorded God as saying let us make man in our Image. You can rant against the Old Testament all you want but it's not going anywhere. Also, nobody was made in an angel's image.

The Old Testament says the act of creation occurred by a He.

Gen 1
27So God created man in His own image;
in the image of God He created him;
male and female He created them

The Father is a He, Jesus is a he, the Father and Jesus together are a we/our (John 14:23) demonstrating that normal pronoun usage shows distinction between the Father and Jesus. The Father is the true God "alone" as a He (John 17:1-3) showing that the true God is not a they/them/we/our, so that means no trinity was involved in creation. Guarantee it.

 

[Runningman]

I quoted the Greek words exactly as they are present in John 17:3. If you can't stand that fact then that's just too bad for you.

You can't change the Greek and you won't be allowed to bury it. You cannot accept it because your heart is filled with lies about a fake god that does not exist. Why do you not believe the Bible?

The Apostles were not darkened in their understanding when they wrote John 17:3 exactly as I quoted it for you, not to mention John 1:1 that you continue to avoid like the plague.

The Greek of John 17:3 contains the word "monos" which explicitly means Alone. So you can't change it. The Father is the true God alone. You have no excuse to deny this.

 

[Runningman]

John 17:1-5 support the Trinity and refute the unitarians.

Since synergy couldn't change John 17:3... do you care to join him in his severe dishonesty to deny the Father as the true God alone or will you agree with Jesus?

 

[synergy]

The Old Testament says the act of creation occurred by a He.

Gen 1
27So God created man in His own image;
in the image of God He created him;
male and female He created them

The Father is a He, Jesus is a he, the Father and Jesus together are a we/our (John 14:23) demonstrating that normal pronoun usage shows distinction between the Father and Jesus. The Father is the true God "alone" as a He (John 17:1-3) showing that the true God is not a they/them/we/our, so that means no trinity was involved in creation. Guarantee it.

A heretic, like you, will always skip over verses that do not align with his heresies. That's exactly what you did with verse 26.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

The person who seeks the truth will always take in all verses without exception. The shift of plurality to singularity between verses 26 and 27 conveys the plurality of persons (Trinitarianism) and unity of being within God (Monotheism). In verse 26, the plural language (“Let Us make man in Our image”) is understood as a divine deliberation the Trinitarian Persons who share the same divine nature and therefore speak collectively. In verse 27, however, the narrative returns to singular language (“So God created… in His own image”), emphasizing that the act of creation is performed by one God (Monotheism) not multiple gods. Trinitarians therefore see the passage as holding two truths together: the plural pronouns suggest personal distinction within God, while the singular verbs and pronouns affirm monotheism, which is consistent with the entire Bible.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Really, Rockerduck? None of the Trinitarians that showed up in this thread have thus far been able to present a single verse of scripture that says God is a Trinity. Perhaps you should try to succeed where they have all failed. Start by presenting your first three "Trinity" scriptures. Three scriptures at a time for each person is how I approach these types of discussions.

Proceed.

If you are not Born Again from above, received the Holy Spirit of Promise and can say positively, without a doubt, you are going to Heaven if you died today, then you believe the man made lie there is no trinity and you have no salvation. God loves me, Jesus saved me, I have the Holy Spirit in me. Yes, I know for a fact I'm going to Heaven whether by death or rapture. If you look for scripture to justify beliefs, the remember everyone who is born again from above like me, never owned a bible until after they were saved and read the word of God after. So I could post 100's of verses, but it would not convince you otherwise because you have been indoctrinated with a belief system that will deny other beliefs.

Rockerduck, nothing that you said at Post 433 resembles three verses of scripture from God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. Why am I not surprised?

 

[synergy]

The Greek of John 17:3 contains the word "monos" which explicitly means Alone. So you can't change it. The Father is the true God alone. You have no excuse to deny this.

Since synergy couldn't change John 17:3... do you care to join him in his severe dishonesty to deny the Father as the true God alone or will you agree with Jesus?

When you stop altering John 17:3 from "the only true God" (NKJV, supports Monotheism) to "the Father being God alone" (your adulterated version) then we can talk. Until then, toodles....

 

[mikesw]

Rockerduck, nothing that you said at Post 433 resembles three verses of scripture from God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. Why am I not surprised?

Here's the link for that post #Post433 which is a decent statement. I got saved after the summer where I had been reading a biography of a false prophet, which said he read the bible once for every year of his life. Also, before that summer, I was given a Gideon bible and read that. I did not remember anything I read but had the conviction that i needed to get in a church and become a Christian. So, my situation is virtually of not having read scriptures -- at least not to a point of head awareness of the message.

 

[Runningman]

When you stop altering John 17:3 from "the only true God" (NKJV, supports Monotheism) to "the Father being God alone" (your adulterated version) then we can talk. Until then, toodles....

Long comments give you more leverage to manipulate in your effort to make Scripture bow to your idol. So let's just ask very directly about monos in John 17:3.

Does monos mean Alone? A simple yes or no will suffice.

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◄ 3441. monos ►​

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Lexical Summary monos: Alone, only, solitary, single Original Word: μόνος Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: monos Pronunciation: MO-nos Phonetic Spelling: (mon'-os) KJV: alone, only, by themselves NASB: alone, only, just, merely, even, mere, only one Word Origin: [probably from G3306 (μένω - abides)] 1. remaining, i.e. sole or single 2. (by implication) mere​

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[synergy]

Long comments give you more leverage to manipulate in your effort to make Scripture bow to your idol. So let's just ask very directly about monos in John 17:3.

Does monos mean Alone? A simple yes or no will suffice.

​

◄ 3441. monos ►​

Lexical Summary
monos: Alone, only, solitary, single

Original Word: μόνος
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: monos
Pronunciation: MO-nos
Phonetic Spelling: (mon'-os)
KJV: alone, only, by themselves
NASB: alone, only, just, merely, even, mere, only one
Word Origin: [probably from G3306 (μένω - abides)]

1. remaining, i.e. sole or single
2. (by implication) mere​

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Do you even read what you write???? You just confirmed that the translators were correct in selecting the word "only" when they wrote ""the only true God" in John 17:3. Well done! You're doing a superb job promoting Trinitarianism. Keep up the great work.

 

[civic]

Since synergy couldn't change John 17:3... do you care to join him in his severe dishonesty to deny the Father as the true God alone or will you agree with Jesus?

You are the one denying Jesus point. He is equal with the Father. The subject is not God but eternal life and their relationship that goes all the way back to before creation as per 17:5.

Next fallacy

 

[Runningman]

Do you even read what you write???? You just confirmed that the translators were correct in selecting the word "only" when they wrote ""the only true God" in John 17:3. Well done! You're doing a superb job promoting Trinitarianism. Keep up the great work.

Only means the same thing as alone in John 17:3 as they are completely synonymous words in this context. Of course, John 17:3 is the verse you would bend over backwards to manipulate and try to change the meaning of because, of course, you know it wipes your trinity off the map.

 

[Runningman]

You are the one denying Jesus point. He is equal with the Father. The subject is not God but eternal life and their relationship that goes all the way back to before creation as per 17:5.

Next fallacy

How does this change Jesus' point in John 17:3 regarding the Father who is alone the true God? Jesus explicitly said that.

 

[synergy]

Only means the same thing as alone in John 17:3 as they are completely synonymous words in this context. Of course, John 17:3 is the verse you would bend over backwards to manipulate and try to change the meaning of because, of course, you know it wipes your trinity off the map.

Will you finally concede that the translators were correct in translating John 17:3 as "the only true God"? By ditching your tendency to alter the verse, you will come closer to.the truth which is Monotheistic Trinitarianism.

 

[Rockerduck]

Rockerduck, nothing that you said at Post 433 resembles three verses of scripture from God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. Why am I not surprised?

I am not surprise at you, because you are not saved by the Grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. Without the Holy Spirit indwelling you, you cannot see spiritual things in scripture.

1 Corinthians 2:14 - But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

 

[civic]

Only means the same thing as alone in John 17:3 as they are completely synonymous words in this context. Of course, John 17:3 is the verse you would bend over backwards to manipulate and try to change the meaning of because, of course, you know it wipes your trinity off the map.

And we know the Son is called the ONLY LORD, the ONE LORD, the TRUE GOD.

next fallacy.

 

[Darby]

John 14:8-10
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” 9. Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10.Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works.…

Colossians 1:15
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. / He was with God in the beginning. / Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

John 12:45
And whoever sees Me sees the One who sent Me.

 

[praise_yeshua]

John 14:8-10
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” 9. Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10.Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works.…

Colossians 1:15
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. / He was with God in the beginning. / Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

John 12:45
And whoever sees Me sees the One who sent Me.

"Right hand" is very meaningful in the relationship expressed in Hebrews 1:3.

Ungodly Unitarians will insist it is a position of a lesser rank. When in realty, it isn't a position of service to God. It is a co-equal position of authority and great Glory.

Unitarians can't understand this due their own ungodly passions.

 

[amazing grace]

John 14:8-10
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” 9. Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10.Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works.…

Colossians 1:15
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. / He was with God in the beginning. / Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

John 12:45
And whoever sees Me sees the One who sent Me.

Correct, Jesus said - whoever sees me sees the one who sent me ---- which is how he could say 'anyone who has seen me has seen the Father'. Jesus was/is the image of the invisible God - he radiates God's glory and he is the exact representation of his person ---- Jesus provided purification for sins and God exalted him to his own right hand, i.e. the Majesty on high and if he is exalted to God's right hand. Also he is the one sent so someone else had to send him----that someone who sent him is God therefore Jesus is not God.

Yes, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself.

Yes, Jesus and his Father were one in unity and purpose and in the context of which that was said - they were one in unity and purpose in caring for their 'sheep'.

John 1:1 has been hashed to death and it doesn't matter what is said about it ..... Trinitarians hold on to it as their foundation for their belief in a Triune God thus forsaking the first and great commandment.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Greek of John 17:3 contains the word "monos" which explicitly means Alone. So you can't change it. The Father is the true God alone. You have no excuse to deny this.

Funny. You're alone... right?

Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

You know so very little.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Correct, Jesus said - whoever sees me sees the one who sent me ---- which is how he could say 'anyone who has seen me has seen the Father'. Jesus was/is the image of the invisible God - he radiates God's glory and he is the exact representation of his person ---- Jesus provided purification for sins and God exalted him to his own right hand, i.e. the Majesty on high and if he is exalted to God's right hand. Also he is the one sent so someone else had to send him----that someone who sent him is God therefore Jesus is not God.

Yes, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself.

Yes, Jesus and his Father were one in unity and purpose and in the context of which that was said - they were one in unity and purpose in caring for their 'sheep'.

John 1:1 has been hashed to death and it doesn't matter what is said about it ..... Trinitarians hold on to it as their foundation for their belief in a Triune God thus forsaking the first and great commandment.

You sound like an immature Trinitarian? What changed. I haven't been pay attention.....

So who else has this "honor" you describe above?

Do you? It always comes "back" to this. Always.