The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[FreeInChrist]

Yes, I know the verses very well but it still doesn't make my husband and I ONE human being! Yes, one in purpose and united in marriage but still two individual human beings, a male and a female.

He is my head - his head is Christ - Christ head is God - Which 'who' or 'what' is this 'God' who is the head of Christ? I didn't see this answered.

Similar to the Godhead? If I am one in purpose with my husband yet we are still two individual human beings then wouldn't that also be applicable to the Godhead? We would have God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit one in purpose yet three individual, separate and distinct, beings which seems to me to equal 3 gods.

Yeah, ehad (pronounced ekh-awd) means 1) the ONE (number); 2) each, every; 3) a certain; 4) an (indefinite article); 5) only, once, once for all; 6) one . . another, the one....the other, one after another, one by one; 7) first; 8) eleven (in combination, eleventh (ordinal) Although this is not mentioned in the cefinition for ehad I knew it would need to be addressed ------ It can mean one COLLECTIVELY as in one herd, one cluster of grapes, one body [heis - numeral one; one body(of Christ with many members).

I simply cannot explain it to you.

You have to believe to understand.

3 times in scriptures they mentioned the single flesh which does not discount your husband as being your head at all, any more then YHWH our Holy Father being the head over Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But I see the divinity there. I just simply can not explain it .... it is a matter of my faith.

How can I explain this better.

You and your husband each have certain rolls in your marriage. But you were bound together under God. Your flesh is not the same but God sees you as one. It is a spiritual oneness . To say you are one flesh with your husband rather refers to a deep, spiritual bond between you that emphasizes unity and emotional connection and intimacy that God intends for married couples far beyond physical ties.

And this is exactly how I see the Trinity.... in a bond so intricately woven that will never part.

If you do not want to believe in the Trinity, fine.

 

[amazing grace]

I simply cannot explain it to you.

You have to believe to understand.

What do I have to believe to understand? If you can't understand you own faith then how do you expect anyone to understand?

3 times in scriptures they mentioned the single flesh which does not discount your husband as being your head at all, any more then YHWH our Holy Father being the head over Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But I see the divinity there. I just simply can not explain it .... it is a matter of my faith.

How can I explain this better.

I understand the verses regarding a husband and wife becoming one flesh, working together in purpose and being united in that purpose yet they remain two human beings. I understand that God set up a hierarchy so to speak; the man is the head of the wife, Christ is the head of man and God is the head of Christ ------ I said nothing about discounting anything --- I simply asked a question you could not answer. It's really easy - the head of Christ, the Messiah is Yahweh, aka God.

You and your husband each have certain rolls in your marriage. But you were bound together under God. Your flesh is not the same but God sees you as one. It is a spiritual oneness . To say you are one flesh with your husband rather refers to a deep, spiritual bond between you that emphasizes unity and emotional connection and intimacy that God intends for married couples far beyond physical ties.

And this is exactly how I see the Trinity.... in a bond so intricately woven that will never part.

If you do not want to believe in the Trinity, fine.

Yes, intimacy, sexual intimacy between a husband and wife is really what unites them as one flesh yet they remain two separate and distinct individual human beings.

Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For it is written, "The two shall become one flesh." But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one Spirit with him [For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body---Jews or Greeks, slave or free---and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13] Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

 

[FreeInChrist]

What do I have to believe to understand? If you can't understand you own faith then how do you expect anyone to understand?

The Trinity. You either do or do not. I do you do not.

I have explained it ad nauseum on here.... no more.

 

[FreeInChrist]

The Trinity. You either do or do not. I do you do not.

I have explained it ad nauseum on here.... no more.

Don't be so shocked that I cannot explain.

But this can, or should.

And should you decide not to view both or either I have posted below as the only expressions of where my faith lies.

FINALLY UNDERSTAND THE MYSTERY OF THE TRINITY | 3 PERSONS. 1 GOD​

Inner Light, Infinite Wisdom

and especially .............................................. (This one is much the same but added points and scriptures

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

I have other if you want them, but they mostly are the same for there is no variance in the Trinity. Just changes in commentary.

The following is me. It is who I am. It is the beliefs and faith I have. But I cannot put it into words for it is ingrained into my soul
and words fail me. I did not write these , but glad I now have them to make my expression of explanation.

This is the closest that I can express "me"
____________________________
You were created to walk with the whole of who He is.

The Trinity isn't just a doctrine it's the divine rhythm you were created to live in and once you step into that rhythm you don't just
know about God but you begin to know God Himself, personally, intimately, powerfully because He is not far.

He is in you, around you, moving through your life, moment by moment.

God is not far. He is the Father that formed you,~ the Son who saved you,~ and the Spirit who walks with you..... right now.

He is not divided.

He is not confused.

He is one and He is with you.

The mystery of the Trinity was never meant to confuse you. It was meant to invite you to help you see that the goal of the bible is not a distant force, but a divine relationship overflowing with love, grace and power..... reaching for you.

This is not theology. It is your lifeline because when you walk in step with the Trinity....

YOU ARE NOT JUST BELIEVING THE TRUTH, YOU ARE LIVING IT

 

[amazing grace]

Don't be so shocked that I cannot explain.

But this can, or should.

And should you decide not to view both or either I have posted below as the only expressions of where my faith lies.

FINALLY UNDERSTAND THE MYSTERY OF THE TRINITY | 3 PERSONS. 1 GOD​

Inner Light, Infinite Wisdom

and especially .............................................. (This one is much the same but added points and scriptures

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

I have other if you want them, but they mostly are the same for there is no variance in the Trinity. Just changes in commentary.

The following is me. It is who I am. It is the beliefs and faith I have. But I cannot put it into words for it is ingrained into my soul
and words fail me. I did not write these , but glad I now have them to make my expression of explanation.

This is the closest that I can express "me"
____________________________
You were created to walk with the whole of who He is.

The Trinity isn't just a doctrine it's the divine rhythm you were created to live in and once you step into that rhythm you don't just
know about God but you begin to know God Himself, personally, intimately, powerfully because He is not far.

He is in you, around you, moving through your life, moment by moment.

God is not far. He is the Father that formed you,~ the Son who saved you,~ and the Spirit who walks with you..... right now.

He is not divided.

He is not confused.

He is one and He is with you.

The mystery of the Trinity was never meant to confuse you. It was meant to invite you to help you see that the goal of the bible is not a distant force, but a divine relationship overflowing with love, grace and power..... reaching for you.

This is not theology. It is your lifeline because when you walk in step with the Trinity....

YOU ARE NOT JUST BELIEVING THE TRUTH, YOU ARE LIVING IT

No matter how much I disagree with the Trinitarian Doctrine . . . . I do thank you for taking the time to share your heart with me.

 

[Runningman]

I can see how you would endorse the misinterpretation. Dan 7:13-14 does not narrow the idea to "the son of man" but rather "one like a son of man." That is why only Jesus incarnated is different. He comes as the Son of God and Son of Man thus having divinity and humanity. The High Priest recognized Jesus's claim to divinity and that is why the High Priest interpreted this as blasphemy. These concepts are beyond the grasp of the hyperliteralist unitarian way of thinking.

So you're saying Jesus committed blasphemy or you're saying the high priest rightly accused Jesus of blasphemy? If you are saying the high priest was correct then you have made a terrible argument and have essentially called Jesus a sinner.

 

[mikesw]

So you're saying Jesus committed blasphemy or you're saying the high priest rightly accused Jesus of blasphemy? If you are saying the high priest was correct then you have made a terrible argument and have essentially called Jesus a sinner.

Welcome back. I figured you were just on a short break.
Ouch. You think the High Priest's claim of blasphemy was right? The point is not that his issue of blasphemy would not be right in some situations, it is recognizing that the underlying point, of Jesus's true indication of his own divinity is highlighted and true. But a Schoenheit adherent will not understand that nuance.

 

[Runningman]

Welcome back. I figured you were just on a short break.
Ouch. You think the High Priest's claim of blasphemy was right? The point is not that his issue of blasphemy would not be right in some situations, it is recognizing that the underlying point, of Jesus's true indication of his own divinity is highlighted and true. But a Schoenheit adherent will not understand that nuance.

So the high priest was wrong and Jesus didn't commit blasphemy now? So Jesus was not claiming to be God. That's what I believe too.

Now back to Daniel 7. See where the Son of Man approaches the Ancient of Days on His throne and the Son of Man receives the same exact power, authority, and sovereignty as the other sons of men he's with?

 

[mikesw]

So the high priest was wrong and Jesus didn't commit blasphemy now? So Jesus was not claiming to be God. That's what I believe too.

Now back to Daniel 7. See where the Son of Man approaches the Ancient of Days on His throne and the Son of Man receives the same exact power, authority, and sovereignty as the other sons of men he's with?

You cannot follow me nor scripture.
The High Priest was right about Jesus' claim to divinity but was inaccurate to call it blasphemous since he is God. That idea does not fit the Schoenheit belief system and therefore those adherents reject that whole encounter.

The modern Schoenheits do not even recognize the divinity of Christ that Arius held.

Consequently, he argued, the Father’s divinity must inherently be greater than the Son’s.² The Son, in this way of thinking, was subordinate to God the Father, not co-equal in His very being or essence.² Arius envisioned a hierarchy, a divine order, where the Father decides and the Son obeys.⁸ Arius might use terms like “God” or “perfect God, only begotten and unchangeable” when referring to the Son 9 he intended this in a lesser, derived sense. In his view, Jesus was “God” only by the Father’s permission and power, described as receiving divinity “by participation in grace… He too is called God in name only”

Christian History: Who was Arius?

Explore the life of Arius, his teachings, and their impact on early Christianity and the Church’s struggle for theological clarity.

christianpure.com

So Arius would not even endorse the Schoenheits.

 

[Runningman]

You cannot follow me nor scripture.
The High Priest was right about Jesus' claim to divinity but was inaccurate to call it blasphemous since he is God. That idea does not fit the Schoenheit belief system and therefore those adherents reject that whole encounter.

The modern Schoenheits do not even recognize the divinity of Christ that Arius held.

So Arius would not even endorse the Schoenheits.

Jesus taught they were lying about that. So their accusation of Jesus committing blasphemy was false because he didn't claim to be God.

John 8
44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me!

Jesus being one of the many sons of men receiving sovereignty in Daniel 7 is not a very good argument.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus taught they were lying about that. So their accusation of Jesus committing blasphemy was false because he didn't claim to be God.

John 8
44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me!

Jesus being one of the many sons of men receiving sovereignty in Daniel 7 is not a very good argument.

Uh. Matthew could have corrected this by noting the High Priest was wrong in Jesus showing himself as God. I do not think the Schoenheit bible adds that into the text.

The argument only is not good when someone wishes to deny the evidence of who Christ is. Sure, if you deny enough verses, you then have a Jesus that any man can become.

 

[Runningman]

Uh. Matthew could have corrected this by noting the High Priest was wrong in Jesus showing himself as God. I do not think the Schoenheit bible adds that into the text.

The argument only is not good when someone wishes to deny the evidence of who Christ is. Sure, if you deny enough verses, you then have a Jesus that any man can become.

John did point out how they were wrong. John pointed out some of their false accusation against Jesus. Some of them being he was breaking the sabbath and claiming to be equal with God. This is why Jesus called this particular group children of the great liar in John 8:44-45.

John 5
18Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

 

[mikesw]

John did point out how they were wrong. John pointed out some of their false accusation against Jesus. Some of them being he was breaking the sabbath and claiming to be equal with God. This is why Jesus called this particular group children of the great liar in John 8:44-45.

John 5
18Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

Bad interpretation again. This shows he was identifying his divinity. John 5:18 is a positive statement of his presenting of himself equal with the Father. I'm not sure how you missed that. You effectively are saying that Jesus did not call God his own father. That goes against there being any situation here.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@Runningman ,

Are you among the 70%

Nearly 70% of born-again Christians disagree with the biblical position that Jesus is the only way to God, ?

Nearly 70% of born-again Christians say other religions can lead to Heaven: study

Nearly 70 of born-again Christians disagree with the biblical position that Jesus is the only way to God, according to a new survey from Probe Ministries, a nonprofit that seeks to help the Church in

www.christianpost.com

 

[101G]

Don't be so shocked that I cannot explain.

But this can, or should.

And should you decide not to view both or either I have posted below as the only expressions of where my faith lies.

FINALLY UNDERSTAND THE MYSTERY OF THE TRINITY | 3 PERSONS. 1 GOD​

Inner Light, Infinite Wisdom

and especially .............................................. (This one is much the same but added points and scriptures

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

I have other if you want them, but they mostly are the same for there is no variance in the Trinity. Just changes in commentary.

The following is me. It is who I am. It is the beliefs and faith I have. But I cannot put it into words for it is ingrained into my soul
and words fail me. I did not write these , but glad I now have them to make my expression of explanation.

This is the closest that I can express "me"
____________________________
You were created to walk with the whole of who He is.

The Trinity isn't just a doctrine it's the divine rhythm you were created to live in and once you step into that rhythm you don't just
know about God but you begin to know God Himself, personally, intimately, powerfully because He is not far.

He is in you, around you, moving through your life, moment by moment.

God is not far. He is the Father that formed you,~ the Son who saved you,~ and the Spirit who walks with you..... right now.

He is not divided.

He is not confused.

He is one and He is with you.

The mystery of the Trinity was never meant to confuse you. It was meant to invite you to help you see that the goal of the bible is not a distant force, but a divine relationship overflowing with love, grace and power..... reaching for you.

This is not theology. It is your lifeline because when you walk in step with the Trinity....

YOU ARE NOT JUST BELIEVING THE TRUTH, YOU ARE LIVING IT

101G have only one question, "if God is three separate persons as the video states, how can Jesus the christ a separate Person who the bible says, ALL THINGS WAS MADE BY/THROUGH HIM, and he said some one else MADE MAN MALE AND FEMALE in the beginning?"

Supporting Scriptures,
A. Colossians 1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" ..... HIM is ONEPERSON, correct. now this,

B. Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," here, the Lord Jesus the Christ, WHO CANNOT LIE, says, some one else made man male and female in the beginning? but did not Jesus MAKE ALL THINGS? but now this,

C. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" HERE, if the LORD all caps made all things, ONE PERSON, who you calls the Father, then the bible must have LIED when it said "US" and "OUR" made man. because remember the Lord Jesus said in Matthews 19:4, "HE", one person made man male and female.

so, either God is one in the same person, or the video LIED.

101G.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

@Runningman ,

Are you among the 70%

Nearly 70% of born-again Christians disagree with the biblical position that Jesus is the only way to God, ?

Nearly 70% of born-again Christians say other religions can lead to Heaven: study

Nearly 70 of born-again Christians disagree with the biblical position that Jesus is the only way to God, according to a new survey from Probe Ministries, a nonprofit that seeks to help the Church in

www.christianpost.com

Hi, FreInChrist!

Perhaps it depends on what "The only Way to God" means.
If it means "Living the life Jesus showed is the only Way to God", then I will agree.
If it means "Believing doctrines X, Y and X about Jesus is the Only Way to God", then I may not agree.


Perhaps those 30% think that when Jesus said "I am the Way" He meant "Having the right set of beliefs about me is the Way"
Perhaps the other 70% think He meant "Living the life I'm showing you is the Way"

 

[mikesw]

Hi, FreInChrist!

Perhaps it depends on what "The only Way to God" means.
If it means "Living the life Jesus showed is the only Way to God", then I will agree.
If it means "Believing doctrines X, Y and X about Jesus is the Only Way to God", then I may not agree.


Perhaps those 30% think that when Jesus said "I am the Way" He meant "Having the right set of beliefs about me is the Way"
Perhaps the other 70% think He meant "Living the life I'm showing you is the Way"

Indeed those alternative beliefs would be rejecting the ultimate message of Jesus that he is the only way to be justified with God. It shows the deterioration of pastoral guidance in churches. Thanks for sharing those ways that even Christians could be ignorant.

The gospels are quite evident that Jesus speaks of being the only source of life to the people and that he died on the cross and was raised so that people could be right with God.
But Pancho will not likely see this since I warned him about the possible problem of neglecting such a message.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Hi, FreInChrist!

Perhaps it depends on what "The only Way to God" means.
If it means "Living the life Jesus showed is the only Way to God", then I will agree.
If it means "Believing doctrines X, Y and X about Jesus is the Only Way to God", then I may not agree.


Perhaps those 30% think that when Jesus said "I am the Way" He meant "Having the right set of beliefs about me is the Way"
Perhaps the other 70% think He meant "Living the life I'm showing you is the Way"

@Pancho Frijoles

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

We can understand that you likely will not understand this. It is alright.... WE do

 

[mikesw]

@Pancho Frijoles

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

We can understand that you likely will not understand this. It is alright.... WE do

This reminds me that teachers in churches need to cover a spectrum of passages and doctrines to help keep people on track with who Christ is and the justification through him alone. I recommend sharing the confessions and creeds at some level and also teaching the basis for those.

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman ,

Are you among the 70%

Nearly 70% of born-again Christians disagree with the biblical position that Jesus is the only way to God, ?

Nearly 70% of born-again Christians say other religions can lead to Heaven: study

Nearly 70 of born-again Christians disagree with the biblical position that Jesus is the only way to God, according to a new survey from Probe Ministries, a nonprofit that seeks to help the Church in

www.christianpost.com

I am not so sure the author of that article really knows what they are talking about after reading it. What do they say a "born again Christian" is? What do they mean by "Jesus is the only way to God?" They really didn't define their terms.

Personally, I wouldn't word it that way they do since the Bible doesn't say "Jesus is the only way to God." The way I would word it is that the sin sacrifice of Jesus and the life he taught people to live are the way to God. Jesus just showed us how to do it after God showed him what to do.