Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
How do you understand that sentence, FreelnChrist?
The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
FreeInChrist
Active Member
My church has been using various creeds in each service for a long time now. But I agree and will suggest to the pastor
he at least give a thumbnail sketch on the basis for each, or at minimum print in the bulletins for what is used in that week
FreeInChrist
Active Member
First, I know you disagree.... but I am firm in my faith and the Holy Spirit in me will not allow me to get off course.
Boy, to me this scripture is a Dick sees Jane run clarity of a statement.
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. But I'll break it down for you.
When Jesus says, “I am the way,” He is proclaiming that He is the only path to God the Father.
This is an exclusive claim, affirming that there is no other means of access to God except through Him.
When you hear, or at least I do, “the way” to me that says there is a necessity of a guide or a road that leads someone to a destination. In speaking of salvation, Jesus declares that He alone is the road to God.
This exclusivity is reiterated throughout the New Testament. In acts 4:12 Peter tells us “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
When Jesus says "I am the truth", He is identifying Himself as the embodiment of all that is true. In this context this truth is referring to divine reality as revealed by God.
Jesus not only speaks the truth but is the source and standard of truth.
Jesus is the perfect revelation of God the Father. In John 1:14 (NKJV), John writes:
John tells us in 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jesus’ entire life, ministry, and teachings reveal the truth about God and because Jesus can never lie, but only embodies the truth and this scripture “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” says it all to me... John 14:9
When Jesus says "I am the life", He is saying that He is the source of both physical and spiritual life.... therefore without Jesus, there is no true life—either now or in eternity.
Jesus offers eternal life to all who believe in Him. It is about living in a relationship with God, free from the consequences of sin and death. It is through His resurrection that ensures that those with faith in Him will also experience eternal life.
When Jesus says “No One Comes to the Father Except Through Me”
This underscores the exclusivity of Jesus as the only way to God. In a pluralistic world where many paths to God are often suggested, Jesus’ words stand in stark contrast, declaring that He is the only mediator between God and humanity.
You may not understand this statement at all but must know that Jesus is the only one who can bridge the gap between sinful humanity and a holy God.
His sacrificial death on the cross satisfied God’s justice and made it possible for us to be forgiven and reconciled to God.
Jesus’ statement challenges everyone to place their faith in Him alone for salvation. I have, without doubt.
Jesus alone is the mediator, the revealer of truth, and the giver of life. This is the foundation of the Christian faith, and it calls for a response of faith, trust, and obedience to Him.
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
Thanks for your clear and comprehensive answer, FreelnChrist.
We know in advance that we all have different views about many topics in this Forum, and the exchange of views is what maintains the Forum alive and our minds and hearts ready to learn.
So I appreciate that, knowing that I disagree, you explain your point of view honestly. That is precious to me and I thank you for that.
I agree that not only his words, but his whole life, is an embodiment of truth. There is a consistency between what Jesus thought, spoke and did. That's why living the life of Jesus is living the truth and walking the path to God.
Jesus explained this clearly: "For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak... What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me"
The Father is the source of all truth. Jesus conveys that truth perfectly to humans like us. So it is right to say Jesus is The Truth. It is a poetic way to say "Believe what I say because I speak on behalf of the Father".
I agree. I believe Jesus is a Manifestation or Revelation of God.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
WOW.
Thank you, I expected you to challenge at least some of what I said.
But you expanded it very well.
Blessings
360watt:
If you are relying on the word Godhead as part of your trinitarian argument, that particular word is a fabrication that does not even belong in the Bible. It is found nowhere in the oldest existing manuscripts of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) nor is it found in any of the oldest existing manuscripts of the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament).
Runningman:
I'm in agreement with most of your OP. But I can't agree with your position that Jesus was "never called the Word," when in reality, he was. Take a look at the first independent clause of John 1:1.
"In the beginning was the Word...."
Eternally-Grateful:
It took a created being (the first man, Adam) to give sin and death to all mankind; didn't it? So why wouldn't another created being be able to do the reverse?
Regeneration:
Are you sure you want to use that particular scripture? It's not helping your Trinitarian argument. Look at the words that I bolded in red.
Runningman
Active Member
To be fair it doesn't say the Word is Jesus. I see John 1:1-14 as being in line with Jesus being created rather than incarnated.
360watt
Active Member
You dont need this scripture alone to show Jesus' diety.
A mortal man can send the Holy Spirit?
A mortal man can forgive sin itself..not just the person who offended them?
A mortal man can ascend to be one with the Father?
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I am not 360watt but you are 100% correct. The word Godhead is among those questionable things in the KJV.
Unfortunately, the KJV is pretty much the translation that most folks are familiar with and even though they may have
switched translations in their growth... it seems as if using "Godhead"... of which I am guilty of at times... seems a remedy for describing the trinity... to give the factual idea that the trinity is 3 in on and not one with 3 parts.
The reason I have used it... even being anti-KJV myself, is it sounds more ?????? biblical ????? then saying under the cover of an umbrella.
Great catch, BTW... I look forward to reading you....
There's no need for it to say that, Runningman. The context (surrounding words, verses, or chapters) makes it clear that the person called the Word is none other than Jesus. Notice part of the context within the same book of John.
"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of [the] only begotten of [the] Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14 -- Literal Standard Version)
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:16 -- Legacy Standard Bible)
Last edited:
At no time did Jesus send holy spirit, so I don't know why you're even asking that question, as if to say Jesus did it. Below is what Jesus himself said.
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and will bring to your remembrance all things that I have said to you.” (John 14:26 – Berean Literal Bible)
I will address your other two rhetorical questions in separate posts by using scripture.
360watt:
You are ignoring the fact that it was by the authority of Jehovah the Father that Jesus was able to forgive sins. Notice Jesus's own words below--bolded in blue at verse 24--after the scribes and Pharisees (at verse 21) began accusing him of blasphemy.
Luke 5:18
And look! men were carrying a paralyzed man on a stretcher, and they were trying to bring him in and place him before Jesus.Luke 5:19
So not finding a way to bring him in because of the crowd, they climbed up to the roof, and they lowered him on the stretcher through the tiling, right among those in front of Jesus.Luke 5:20
When he saw their faith, he said: “Man, your sins are forgiven.”Luke 5:21
Then the scribes and the Pharisees started to reason, saying: “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins except God alone?”Luke 5:22
But Jesus, discerning their reasoning, said in answer to them: “What are you reasoning in your hearts?Luke 5:23
Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’?Luke 5:24
But in order for you to know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins—” he said to the paralyzed man: “I say to you, Get up, pick up your stretcher, and go to your home.”Actually, 360watt, Jesus was a mortal man the instant his spirit life was transferred from heaven into the womb of the virgin called Mary. Scripture refers to him as "son of man" repeatedly in the Christian Greek Scriptures aka New Testament. Below are three such examples.
"And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.” (Matthew 8:20 -- English Standard Version)
"For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." (Mark 10:45--King James Bible)
"Jesus heard that they had put him out [of the synagogue], and finding him, He asked, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” (John 9:35 -- Amplified Bible)
360watt
Active Member
Out of context verses
FreeInChrist:
Your reasons for using the fabricated word Godhead to support your trinitarian philosophy doesn't change the fact that that particular word didn't show up in the Bible until after John Wycliffe published his English translation in the 14th Century C.E. and introduced the fabricated word godhede. Below are two independent sources confirming this.
John Wycliffe (born c. 1330, Yorkshire, England—died December 31, 1384, Lutterworth, Leicestershire) was an English theologian, philosopher, church reformer, and promoter of the first complete translation of the Bible into English.”
John Wycliffe | Biography, Bible, Beliefs, Reformation, Legacy, Death, & Facts | Britannica
John Wycliffe, English theologian, philosopher, church reformer, and promoter of the first complete translation of the Bible into English. He was one of the forerunners of the Protestant Reformation. The Lollards, a heretical group, propagated his controversial views.
www.britannica.com
“The ending "-head", is not connected with the word "head". John Wycliffe introduced the term godhed into English Bible versions in two places, and, though somewhat archaic, the term survives in modern English because of its use in three places of the Tyndale New Testament (1525) and into the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (1611). In that translation, the word was used to translate three different Greek words:”
So 1,300 years after the last book of the Judeo-Christian Bible was written by inspiration of the Abrahamic God, John Wycliffe invented the word godhede and inserted it into his English Translation. The translators of the King James Version that was published in 1611--all of them Trinitarians--turned around and changed godhede to Godhead.
Suffice it to say, most modern Bible translations removed Godhead from their Bibles after they wised up and realized they were violating scripture at Revelation 22:18. The KJV publishers won't budge. They still won't remove Godhead from their Bible.
Revelation 22:18
“I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll;Revelation 22:19
and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll."That's the best rebuttal you can come up with?
Definition of Son of Man
1: a human being2: often capitalized S : God's messiah destined to preside over the final judgment of humankind
Definition of SON OF MAN
a human being; God's messiah destined to preside over the final judgment of humankind… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
Show us where the term "Son of Man" has any other meaning besides the fact it means human being. Do so by quoting scriptural context (surrounding words, verses, or chapters). And since that expression "Son of Man" appears 82 times in the New Testament, you need to show context for all 82 instances.
You've got your work cut out; haven't you?
Ready, set, go!
Last edited:
Runningman
Active Member
The way John 1:2,3 reads to me is that the God the Word is with is the Creator. It says the the Word was with God and then says all things were made by Him. So the God the Word is with would be the Creator, not the Word being the actual creator. After that, John 1:14 says the Word was made flesh. That is in line with God the Creator using His word to create flesh, not an incarnation.
John 1
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Check out 1 John 1:1-3 where John wrote about the Word again. He called the Word a thing that was revealed by and/or manifested in Jesus rather than Jesus being the Word.
Similar threads
- Poll
