The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[Doug Brents]

You are cementing my point firmly into place. Thanks for the help.

Let's try another couple. Where does the Bible say Jesus is the Word? Where does the Bible say he's God incarnate?

You are delusional. Nothing I have posted supports your fantasies. You purport to know the Scripture. You till me.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@Runningman

My friend GROK mentioned

The primary Bible verse that identifies Jesus as "the Word" is John 1:1, which states (in the NIV translation):

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

This is expanded in John 1:14:

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

These verses in the Gospel of John explicitly equate "the Word" (Greek: Logos) with Jesus Christ, presenting Him as divine, eternal, and incarnate.

AND he also says


The Bible teaches that Jesus is God incarnate (God in human flesh) most directly in John 1:1 and John 1:14, which together form a single, inseparable statement:

• John 1:1(NIV):
  

  "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

• John 1:14(NIV):
  

  "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

These two verses explicitly identify Jesus (the Word) as fully God and fully human—God incarnate.

Supporting Verses​

Other passages reinforce this doctrine:

1. Isaiah 9:6(prophesying the Messiah):
   

   "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given... And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

2. Colossians 2:9(Paul writing about Christ):
   

   "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form."

3. Philippians 2:6–7(about Jesus):
   

   "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness."

4. Hebrews 1:3:
   

   "The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word."

5. John 10:30(Jesus speaking):
   

   "I and the Father are one."

6. John 20:28(Thomas to the risen Jesus):
   

   "Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God!'"

These verses, taken together, clearly present Jesus as God who took on human flesh—God incarnate.

 

[Runningman]

You are delusional. Nothing I have posted supports your fantasies. You purport to know the Scripture. You till me.

You are a prime example of the Dunning-Krueger effect. Not only did prove my point by using the very same circular arguments I demonstrated as fallacious, but you did so confidently, as if you are in any position at all to be calling others delusional. Look in a mirror Doug.

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman

My friend GROK mentioned

The primary Bible verse that identifies Jesus as "the Word" is John 1:1, which states (in the NIV translation):




This is expanded in John 1:14:




These verses in the Gospel of John explicitly equate "the Word" (Greek: Logos) with Jesus Christ, presenting Him as divine, eternal, and incarnate.

AND he also says


The Bible teaches that Jesus is God incarnate (God in human flesh) most directly in John 1:1 and John 1:14, which together form a single, inseparable statement:

• John 1:1(NIV):
• John 1:14(NIV):

These two verses explicitly identify Jesus (the Word) as fully God and fully human—God incarnate.

Supporting Verses​

Other passages reinforce this doctrine:

1. Isaiah 9:6(prophesying the Messiah):
2. Colossians 2:9(Paul writing about Christ):
3. Philippians 2:6–7(about Jesus):
4. Hebrews 1:3:
5. John 10:30(Jesus speaking):
6. John 20:28(Thomas to the risen Jesus):

These verses, taken together, clearly present Jesus as God who took on human flesh—God incarnate.

One step at a time. That doesn't say Jesus is the Word. Ouch, the went south pretty fast.

Ask Grok how is Jesus the Word since the Word is a thing in 1 John 1:1-3?

 

[Alter2Ego]

101G:

You are telling amazing grace "good luck because you will need it," when, in fact, amazing grace is correct and you are wrong when you claim "Jesus is God himself in the flesh."

You would hng your hat on a translation that is not even 100 myears old.... The New World Translation (NWT) was first published in 1950, with the complete Bible released in 1961.

One that had to be made so it lines up with the JW thoughts and preaching.

False. The New World Translation provides the same information found in other Bible translations when context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters) is paid attention to.

If you look at what I've posted thus far in this thread, you will see that I've quoted from various Bible translations that have no connection with the New World Translation. I do that to make the point that all of the Bibles are saying the same thing when one pays attention to context. Below are examples of my posts where I quoted from other Bibles that were translated by Trinitarians. With a couple of exceptions, I also provided the weblink to the Bible version where I took the quotations from.

POST 439 -- Bibles quoted from: (1) New Living Translation; (2) Berean Literal Bible

Post in thread 'The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning'

Oct 24, 2025

Well, Jesus is NOT God . . . As the Father has life in himself so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. (John 5:26) Just as God the Father has life in himself he has given the Son also to have life in himself.
The life of the flesh is in the blood - when your heart quits pumping - blood is no longer flowing through you - you are DEAD,
At the funeral home they will drain all liquid from your body . . . you are DEAD. You are dead until Christ returns and calls you out from among the tombs, i.e. graves [John 5:18] and raises your spiritual body. ...

• Alter2Ego

POST 441 -- Bibles quoted from: (1) Young's Literal Translation; (2) Literal Standard Version, (3) Legacy Standard Version

Post in thread 'The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning'

Oct 24, 2025

101G:

You are telling amazing grace "good luck because you will need it," when, in fact, amazing grace is correct and you are wrong when you claim "Jesus is God himself in the flesh."

You are attempting to turn Jesus Christ into the Creator by connecting John 1:1-3 (which applies to Jesus, the created son) to Isaiah 44:24 (which applies to Jehovah the Father).

First of all, you are quoting John 1:3 from a Trinitarian Bible translation where the translators are attempting to push the Trinity dogma. They purposely manipulated words by stating regarding Jesus: "all things were made by...

• Alter2Ego

POST 453 -- Bible quoted from: (1) English Standard Version

Post in thread 'The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning'

Nov 7, 2025

No flesh involved.
At the end of these is a link to Soul in the Bible. 577 Occurances.
. . . .

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/words/Soul

FreeInChrist:

It wouldn't matter if you quoted all 577 occurrences where the word "soul" appears. It doesn't change the fact that the word soul refers to the entire living flesh-and-blood creature. An exception is found at Matthew 10:28 where the word soul is used symbolically to refer to the resurrection hope.

English Standard Version
"And do not fear those...

• Alter2Ego

POST 470 -- Bible version quoted from: (1) New International Version

Post in thread 'The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning'

Wednesday at 6:56 PM

who was it that sent his angel? "and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel " the Lord God of the holy prophets? meaning the God of the OT and NT.... correct. many of scholars have said, this is Jehovah, the God of the OT Prophets. well 101G disagree, and say it is God the Lord Jesus. so who is correct? let the bible answer the question.

and here is the bible answer. in the same chapter 22 here in revelation, just 10 verses after verse 6, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in...

• Alter2Ego

 

[Alter2Ego]

You are attempting to turn Jesus Christ into the Creator by connecting John 1:1-3 (which applies to Jesus, the created son) to Isaiah 44:24 (which applies to Jehovah the Father).

John 1:1 applies to the Word which was from time before time... as far back as God has ever been.

Where, at John 1:1, does it say anything about the Word existing "from time before time"? Please quote that verse of scripture and show it to the rest of us.

 

[mikesw]

Where, at John 1:1, does it say anything about the Word existing "from time before time"? Please quote that verse of scripture and show it to the rest of us.

What do you think "the Word was with God; the Word was God" means? The verse for this is John 1:1

Are you trying to say God did not exist before time?

 

[Alter2Ego]

Where, at John 1:1, does it say anything about the Word existing "from time before time"? Please quote that verse of scripture and show it to the rest of us.

What do you think "the Word was with God; the Word was God" means? The verse for this is John 1:1

Are you trying to say God did not exist before time?

The portion of John 1:1 (the second independent clause) where it says "the Word was with God" is telling the reader that there were two entirely different spirit persons present. Unless you're going to tell all those reading this thread that God was with himself.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Where, at John 1:1, does it say anything about the Word existing "from time before time"? Please quote that verse of scripture and show it to the rest of us.

What do you think "the Word was with God; the Word was God" means? The verse for this is John 1:1

Are you trying to say God did not exist before time?

mikesw:

The portion of John 1:1 (the third independent clause) where it says "the Word was God" is a manipulation of scripture by Trinitarian translators. That third clause of John 1:1 should actually say "the Word was a god." That's right. Lower case "god" preceded by the indefinite article "a."

Of course, like all Trinitarians, you deliberately ignored the first independent Clause of John 1:1, which debunks the manipulation at Clause #3.

 

[mikesw]

The portion of John 1:1 (the second independent clause) where it says "the Word was with God" is telling the reader that there were two entirely different spirit persons present. Unless you're going to tell all those reading this thread that God was with himself.

Oops. I'm not familiar with your spiritist interpretation. I have no idea what you mean by your post here.

 

[mikesw]

mikesw:

The portion of John 1:1 (the third independent clause) where it says "the Word was God" is a manipulation of scripture by Trinitarian translators. That third clause of John 1:1 should actually say "the Word was a god." That's right. Lower case "god" preceded by the indefinite article "a."

Of course, like all Trinitarians, you deliberately ignored the first independent Clause of John 1:1, which debunks the manipulation at Clause #3.

oh wow. I should ask what your religion is. Did you say you are of the Jehovah's Witness cult?

I wonder where you got your expertise on Greek. Which university do you teach at? You offer a counter view to the all the teaching on Greek that I have viewed.

Your view would mean in John 1:18 that Jesus is the one and only "a god" who is in the Father's Bosom.
You would also have to say that John 3:16 that Jesus is the one and only son of many sons of God. Is that what you actually want us to believe?

 

[mikesw]

mikesw:

The portion of John 1:1 (the third independent clause) where it says "the Word was God" is a manipulation of scripture by Trinitarian translators. That third clause of John 1:1 should actually say "the Word was a god." That's right. Lower case "god" preceded by the indefinite article "a."

Oops. I missed how you have taken on a polytheist view of Israel gods. How many gods do you think exist?