The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil

[jeremiah1five]

What are you talking about creating in Himself.

I see you've never thought about God as He is presented in Scripture. You follow textbook teachings from other people's bible studies and never consider doing your own original thinking just in case one of your theology teachers may have gotten it wrong. Think. Here is my statement again: "God cannot create Himself in Himself."
I'll give you more time to think this through.

Not just a gnostic, but a mystic too? Angels weren't created in time, so does that mean they are God? Lucifer as well, does that mean that he is God? Again, you will not find one single verse in the Bible that says that sinlessness is God's glory. You also apparently don't know what it means to share His glory. If you did, you would have conceded a long time ago. If I have a team of workers, and I make the most incredible computer system that can do everything, that is glory to me. Since I am the only one who worked on it, I do not have to share that glory with anyone. If other people helped, then we share in the glory. God will not give anyone credit for what HE HIMSELF has done. That is what it means to share glory. Adam was sinless until He sinned, at which point He no longer had no sin, but now had sin. So from sinless to sinful. And the transformation is clear. Their eyes were opened to know sin, thus have sin. They knew they were naked. All of this did not happen until sin entered the world, transforming their minds, and their relationship with God. Now, they could die, whereas previously they had everlasting life due to the life being both in and from God.

If Adam was sinless in his creation then you are teaching God shared His glory by sharing, copying, giving, reduplicating His Nature in man and that Adam sinned which is impossible if He was created possessing the very Nature of God and yet he sinned. You are saying that sin comes from sinlessness. But the Bible contradicts you:

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Samuel 24:13.

If Samuel is saying a truism, then a sinless being cannot sin just as wickedness proceeds from a wicked person and sinlessness proceeds from a sinless being/person. If what you are saying is true, that a sinless being/person can sin, then let's test that. God is sinless. He hasn't sinned yet as far as we can tell, but He is Sinless. How long before God who is sinless sin since you believe that sin can proceed from a sinless person? God is Sinless. You are saying God can sin because according to you a sinless person can sin. God is Sinless. It's only a matter of time before God commit a sin because you believe that a sinless person can sin. Then, what Samuel says is not entirely true. Not only does wickedness proceed from a wicked person but wickedness can proceed from a sinless person. The conclusion is that no one who is sinless remains sinless because according to you and Samuel, not only does wickedness proceed from a wicked person but sin can proceed from a sinless person. If this is true then NO ONE, God included, is truly and actually sinless - not even God. Not even Christ.
You need to rethink your position because it is flawed.

Where in the Bible does it say ANYONE supported God or assisted God with creating? WHERE? You still don't even understand the definition of glory. And sinlessness is not called glory by God, it is called HOLINESS. You know, that thing God commands us to be. Be holy as He is holy. In Ephesians, Paul says God's standard for His children is holiness and blamelessness. That is, no sin. We can't do that, however Adam had that for a fleeting moment. And then he sinned and ruined everything. I suppose it is too much for you to understand since you gave up the Bible a long time ago for some anointing. One that says that everything physical in the world is sinful/sin. Yet Jesus, the Son of God, was physical in the world, meaning, you made Jesus sinful. Why? Your gnostic belief that matter in and of itself is sin. This leads to the heresies of the first/second century, and later. Gnosticism, dualism, nestorianism, etc. They devised ways to say that Jesus did not come in the flesh, since flesh is matter, and, as you clearly state, all matter is sin. He came in the form of man. That word form means appearance AND NATURE. So if man's nature is sinful, than Jesus nature is sinful, right, since Jesus had a human nature? (It isn't, but I don't think you'll be able to figure out why not.)

That's right. Everything in the physical world, which is a created "world" is sinful and is marked with death. Creation is sinful and God created it sinful, and it is naturally marked with death because that's the only way God can create the universe because God cannot create Himself in Himself.

No, Jesus came in the flesh. He was born to two human parents. So, I have contradicted your false thought of me being gnostic. And by saying Jesus came in the flesh and was born of two human parents means God is with me.
Jesus may have come in the form of man, but He was not born of a man. The sin nature we are all born with is passed down to children from the man. The sin nature does not come from the woman. It comes from the man. It's in his seed. And when it meets the woman's egg the result is a child will be born with a sin nature. But God overcame that naturality. Jesus wasn't born from a man's seed, but He was born a man and without a sin nature because God took man out of the equation.

God makes a human four ways. Name them.

 

[armylngst]

I see you've never thought about God as He is presented in Scripture. You follow textbook teachings from other people's bible studies and never consider doing your own original thinking just in case one of your theology teachers may have gotten it wrong. Think. Here is my statement again: "God cannot create Himself in Himself."
I'll give you more time to think this through.

Let's start simple. One of God's principle attributes is omnipotence. All-powerful. He can do anything. Now, if He can do anything, that renders your point moot. If God cannot create Himself in himself, then that is something He can't do, right? So if He can do anything, how does that make sense? Well, that's easy for a rational minded person to understand. The statement itself is irrational, and thus does not exist. So you are arguing a non-existing point.

If Adam was sinless in his creation then you are teaching God shared His glory by sharing, copying, giving, reduplicating His Nature in man and that Adam sinned which is impossible if He was created possessing the very Nature of God and yet he sinned. You are saying that sin comes from sinlessness. But the Bible contradicts you:

No. Again, you don't know the definition of glory. If you glory in something, how is that something you are? Again, it goes back to being rationally minded, and not as irrational as yourself. God Himself stated, not me, not some textbook, God Himself said that He created us in His own image/likeness. As soon as you see that, you are supposed to shut up and recognize God and what He Himself has said. Since it apparently doesn't make sense to you, then it is obvious that you don't understand it. You apparently haven't got a clue what likeness means. Simile. Similar, BUT NOT THE SAME. That means not shared, not copied, not given, not reduplicated. A likeness.

Something else you don't seem to understand with God is sin/sinless. It isn't God's nature as you are stating it. If you meet God's standard, that is, follow what He commands, then you are, by definition sinless. You have MET THE STANDARD. That isn't you having God's nature. That is you shooting straight bullseyes, and having a perfect archery match. I am finding it impossible to believe that you just don't get this. However, in an archery match, if the goal is perfection, the moment you miss, the match is OVER. No need to take another shot, you already lost. You are a sinner. However, you are sinless, that is, not a sinner UNTIL YOU MISS. It's not a difficult concept to comprehend, if you are a spiritual man, and not a natural man.

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Samuel 24:13.

But there is always a start. There is a place where it began. Again, it is because God created Adam with the capacity to sin/capability to sin. And Adam did. And everything went downhill from their, if you actually read the Bible and believed what God said with your whole heart. So please, believe what God said.

If Samuel is saying a truism, then a sinless being cannot sin just as wickedness proceeds from a wicked person and sinlessness proceeds from a sinless being/person.

This is where a lack of rationality shows itself. You are trying to make the argument that wickedness itself is eternal. It has a home next to God. Wickedness is not eternal. In fact, technically, evil/wickedness do not exist. They are the absence of God, hence they cannot be eternal as He is. It is like darkness. Darkness technically does not exist as it is the absence of light. Cold does not exist, as it is the absence of energy. Sin however, is missing a standard, but is not the absence of a standard. You have to have a standard in order to have sin. You can't miss the standard if there is no standard.

If what you are saying is true, that a sinless being/person can sin, then let's test that. God is sinless. He hasn't sinned yet as far as we can tell, but He is Sinless. How long before God who is sinless sin since you believe that sin can proceed from a sinless person? God is Sinless. You are saying God can sin because according to you a sinless person can sin. God is Sinless. It's only a matter of time before God commit a sin because you believe that a sinless person can sin. Then, what Samuel says is not entirely true. Not only does wickedness proceed from a wicked person but wickedness can proceed from a sinless person. The conclusion is that no one who is sinless remains sinless because according to you and Samuel, not only does wickedness proceed from a wicked person but sin can proceed from a sinless person. If this is true then NO ONE, God included, is truly and actually sinless - not even God. Not even Christ.
You need to rethink your position because it is flawed.

No, your position is irrational. God cannot sin. It is impossible. The word sin means to miss the standard. Everything God is and does IS THE STANDARD. Since He Himself is the standard, that is why it is said that God is Light and there is no darkness in Him. Darkness is the absence of light. Since God is Light in its purest form, there can be no darkness. Adam was not like that. We are lights, as Jesus Himself stated, so don't hide yourself under a bushel, but let it shine for all to see. (Hmm, sounds like a LIKENESS to God, but we are not THE LIGHT as God is.) Why would we be like that? Well, a creator's creation tends to carry a piece of them.

That's right. Everything in the physical world, which is a created "world" is sinful and is marked with death. Creation is sinful and God created it sinful, and it is naturally marked with death because that's the only way God can create the universe because God cannot create Himself in Himself.

Sin sin can only come from sin, and God created sin (sinful means full of sin), then by your own argument, God must be a sinner, right? Since sin/wickedness can only come from wickendess, right? And again, with the completely irrational, worthless, unsound argument. Every time you say "God cannot create Himself in Himself", your credibility and intelligence go down. If God can do anything (omnipotence), then why would God do something He can't do? There is no argument. You have no argument. All you have is God creating in His image, and, due to the laws of rationality, it doesn't mean that He is creating Himself in Himself, because He won't do what He can't do. You are wasting your time, not to mention mine. So the question you are supposed to ask is, if God said (He did), that He created man in His own image and likeness, and you have this argument that contradicts God the Creator of the universe Himself, then, obviously, you are wrong, and you need to reconsider your position. I already told you that the word image, from the Hebrew, in the Genesis record does not mean what you say it means. So if you had the proper definition of image, you would understand why Genesis also says LIKENESS, and you would stop contradicting God.

No, Jesus came in the flesh. He was born to two human parents. So, I have contradicted your false thought of me being gnostic. And by saying Jesus came in the flesh and was born of two human parents means God is with me.

You are inconsistent. Flesh exists in the physical world, is solely a part of the created "world" which is sinful. Therefore, by consistent definition, in your worldview, Jesus is sinful. Why? Because His flesh is in the physical world, is a part of the physical world, and you say, just above "Everything in the physical world, which is a created "world" is sinful and is marked with death". You are inconsistent. You don't have a solid belief system. It is fractured.

Jesus may have come in the form of man, but He was not born of a man. The sin nature we are all born with is passed down to children from the man. The sin nature does not come from the woman. It comes from the man. It's in his seed. And when it meets the woman's egg the result is a child will be born with a sin nature. But God overcame that naturality. Jesus wasn't born from a man's seed, but He was born a man and without a sin nature because God took man out of the equation.

Wait a minute. Why are you talking about sin nature now? It has no place in your belief system. You said God created man AND woman sinful. That means that God created man with a sin nature, and created woman with a sin nature. That means that there is no escape from the sin nature because it is bound to the flesh, to the physical. So, Jesus coming in the flesh, to be consistent with your beliefs going back to the creation of Adam, means that Jesus is flesh/physical matter, and thus corrupted due to that. Sinful. Your belief system, I will repeat it, is not consistent. It is not rational. The conclusion does not follow from the premise. And logic itself is bound to the nature of God. The premise for my belief system is that Adam and Eve were created sinless with the capacity to sin. Matter was "good" as God said more than once. ADAM sinned and as the federal head of humanity, passed on sin, as the man, to his descendants. Up until he sinned, he had no sin nature. He didn't even have a clue what sin was. Jesus came to Earth, conceived by the Holy Spirit, carried by Mary. (More accurate to say it that way). She provided the flesh, the humanity, the tent of His dwelling while He tabernacled with us on Earth. The righteousness He provides redeems man to the way he (man) was before Adam sinned. If there was no point where man was sinless, then Jesus died in vain. If flesh, if humanity cannot be anything other than sinful, man cannot be redeemed, and all mankind Jew and Gentile, are damned. If man once was sinless, then the death of Christ can make man sinless in God's eyes, by the imputed righteousness of Jesus, for those who believe in Him.

God makes a human four ways. Name them.

I only know the "right" way. The wrong way just doesn't seem to be something God would do. And now you do sound like a mystic.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Let's start simple. One of God's principle attributes is omnipotence. All-powerful. He can do anything. Now, if He can do anything, that renders your point moot. If God cannot create Himself in himself, then that is something He can't do, right? So if He can do anything, how does that make sense? Well, that's easy for a rational minded person to understand. The statement itself is irrational, and thus does not exist. So you are arguing a non-existing point.

God can only do things that are aligned by His Nature. You don't understand what I said because your mind is infected by Gentile-infused theology that comes out of theology books authored by Gentiles.
I attempted to explain my statement that "God cannot create Himself in Himself" but reconsidered and deleted it within my last comment. Instead, I asked for your understanding which I knew would fall flat against the truth. Before I explain myself and what I said I want to ask you one more thing and answer me to the best of your ability. Here it is:

Scripture says, "God is light." Close your eyes and describe to me what you see. Then, I will attempt to explain what I think I know which a whole lot more accurate than what you read in theology books.

No. Again, you don't know the definition of glory. If you glory in something, how is that something you are? Again, it goes back to being rationally minded, and not as irrational as yourself. God Himself stated, not me, not some textbook, God Himself said that He created us in His own image/likeness. As soon as you see that, you are supposed to shut up and recognize God and what He Himself has said. Since it apparently doesn't make sense to you, then it is obvious that you don't understand it. You apparently haven't got a clue what likeness means. Simile. Similar, BUT NOT THE SAME. That means not shared, not copied, not given, not reduplicated. A likeness.

Something else you don't seem to understand with God is sin/sinless. It isn't God's nature as you are stating it. If you meet God's standard, that is, follow what He commands, then you are, by definition sinless. You have MET THE STANDARD. That isn't you having God's nature. That is you shooting straight bullseyes, and having a perfect archery match. I am finding it impossible to believe that you just don't get this. However, in an archery match, if the goal is perfection, the moment you miss, the match is OVER. No need to take another shot, you already lost. You are a sinner. However, you are sinless, that is, not a sinner UNTIL YOU MISS. It's not a difficult concept to comprehend, if you are a spiritual man, and not a natural man.

But there is always a start. There is a place where it began. Again, it is because God created Adam with the capacity to sin/capability to sin. And Adam did. And everything went downhill from their, if you actually read the Bible and believed what God said with your whole heart. So please, believe what God said.

This is where a lack of rationality shows itself. You are trying to make the argument that wickedness itself is eternal. It has a home next to God. Wickedness is not eternal. In fact, technically, evil/wickedness do not exist. They are the absence of God, hence they cannot be eternal as He is. It is like darkness. Darkness technically does not exist as it is the absence of light. Cold does not exist, as it is the absence of energy. Sin however, is missing a standard, but is not the absence of a standard. You have to have a standard in order to have sin. You can't miss the standard if there is no standard.

No, your position is irrational. God cannot sin. It is impossible. The word sin means to miss the standard. Everything God is and does IS THE STANDARD. Since He Himself is the standard, that is why it is said that God is Light and there is no darkness in Him. Darkness is the absence of light. Since God is Light in its purest form, there can be no darkness. Adam was not like that. We are lights, as Jesus Himself stated, so don't hide yourself under a bushel, but let it shine for all to see. (Hmm, sounds like a LIKENESS to God, but we are not THE LIGHT as God is.) Why would we be like that? Well, a creator's creation tends to carry a piece of them.

Sin sin can only come from sin, and God created sin (sinful means full of sin), then by your own argument, God must be a sinner, right? Since sin/wickedness can only come from wickendess, right? And again, with the completely irrational, worthless, unsound argument. Every time you say "God cannot create Himself in Himself", your credibility and intelligence go down. If God can do anything (omnipotence), then why would God do something He can't do? There is no argument. You have no argument. All you have is God creating in His image, and, due to the laws of rationality, it doesn't mean that He is creating Himself in Himself, because He won't do what He can't do. You are wasting your time, not to mention mine. So the question you are supposed to ask is, if God said (He did), that He created man in His own image and likeness, and you have this argument that contradicts God the Creator of the universe Himself, then, obviously, you are wrong, and you need to reconsider your position. I already told you that the word image, from the Hebrew, in the Genesis record does not mean what you say it means. So if you had the proper definition of image, you would understand why Genesis also says LIKENESS, and you would stop contradicting God.

You are inconsistent. Flesh exists in the physical world, is solely a part of the created "world" which is sinful. Therefore, by consistent definition, in your worldview, Jesus is sinful. Why? Because His flesh is in the physical world, is a part of the physical world, and you say, just above "Everything in the physical world, which is a created "world" is sinful and is marked with death". You are inconsistent. You don't have a solid belief system. It is fractured.

Wait a minute. Why are you talking about sin nature now? It has no place in your belief system. You said God created man AND woman sinful. That means that God created man with a sin nature, and created woman with a sin nature. That means that there is no escape from the sin nature because it is bound to the flesh, to the physical. So, Jesus coming in the flesh, to be consistent with your beliefs going back to the creation of Adam, means that Jesus is flesh/physical matter, and thus corrupted due to that. Sinful. Your belief system, I will repeat it, is not consistent. It is not rational. The conclusion does not follow from the premise. And logic itself is bound to the nature of God. The premise for my belief system is that Adam and Eve were created sinless with the capacity to sin. Matter was "good" as God said more than once. ADAM sinned and as the federal head of humanity, passed on sin, as the man, to his descendants. Up until he sinned, he had no sin nature. He didn't even have a clue what sin was. Jesus came to Earth, conceived by the Holy Spirit, carried by Mary. (More accurate to say it that way). She provided the flesh, the humanity, the tent of His dwelling while He tabernacled with us on Earth. The righteousness He provides redeems man to the way he (man) was before Adam sinned. If there was no point where man was sinless, then Jesus died in vain. If flesh, if humanity cannot be anything other than sinful, man cannot be redeemed, and all mankind Jew and Gentile, are damned. If man once was sinless, then the death of Christ can make man sinless in God's eyes, by the imputed righteousness of Jesus, for those who believe in Him.

I only know the "right" way. The wrong way just doesn't seem to be something God would do. And now you do sound like a mystic.

All that above is textbook responses. You're only regurgitating what you read in books and other people's bible studies. You never attempted to test those textbook positions with Scripture, the Holy Spirit, and original thinking.
I'll await your response to my question above.

 

[armylngst]

God can only do things that are aligned by His Nature. You don't understand what I said because your mind is infected by Gentile-infused theology that comes out of theology books authored by Gentiles.
I attempted to explain my statement that "God cannot create Himself in Himself" but reconsidered and deleted it within my last comment. Instead, I asked for your understanding which I knew would fall flat against the truth. Before I explain myself and what I said I want to ask you one more thing and answer me to the best of your ability. Here it is:

God is omnipotent. However, that omnipotence is in keeping with His nature of logic. So God cannot create a stone of eternal weight that not even He can lift. Do you see how that works? That question is irrational because the question asks if God can do something He can't do. Obviously, a rational person knows that no one is going to do what they cannot rationally do. Now you are making a statement of God doing something He cannot do, according to you. Are you still wondering why I say you are irrational? Your statement is irrational, and therefore has NO PLACE IN THE ARGUMENT. Once you remove your irrational, illogical, unsound reasoning from the argument, all that is left is that God created man in His image and likeness. And if you look up the word image, and the word likeness, you will find out IMMEDIATELY that it has NOTHING to do with your irrational argument. No reduplication, no photocopy, no facsimile. A LIKENESS, like a lifeless self-portrait is in the image and likeness of the painter. However, it isn't alive, it doesn't breathe, it doesn't smile, etc. Why not? It is only a likeness. We are flesh, God is not flesh. Therefore the likeness does not include that. God is the standard by which sin exists, we obviously can't be that because that is God. God creates from nothing, we can only create from what we see/understand, and from something that exists.

Scripture says, "God is light." Close your eyes and describe to me what you see. Then, I will attempt to explain what I think I know which a whole lot more accurate than what you read in theology books.

I can't. If you can, then you most certainly aren't speaking of the God in the Bible, as even God is clear that we have no clue. How did God define Himself to the Hebrews. Understand, your name is a definition of yourself. Notice how every name has a meaning. Mine means "wolf counsel", which speaks to wisdom and counsel. How did God define Himself so that the Hebrews would understand Him? He defined Himself... by Himself. Why? There is no shared understanding/experience by which we can hope to understand God. It's like talking to someone who has been blind since birth about the blue sky. They know nothing of color, much less a blue sky. There is no shared experience. You will never be able to explain it to them. It's like explaining the flavor of chicken to a lifelong vegan, since you keep telling them, when they ask what you food tastes like, that it tastes just like chicken. They don't have a clue. No shared experience. God gave His name to the Hebrews "I Am That I Am". I have no idea what a pure light source would look like. Not even the sun is a pure light source. There are sun spots and other blemishes.

All that above is textbook responses. You're only regurgitating what you read in books and other people's bible studies. You never attempted to test those textbook positions with Scripture, the Holy Spirit, and original thinking.
I'll await your response to my question above.

How is you denying what God explicitly said (making Him a liar) a textbook response? Also your heretical positions are not original thinking, just thrown out as the heresies they are. What does scripture say about life? There is NOTHING new under the sun. Same heresy, different clothing. Oh, and are those sun glasses? To keep the light out, right?

You have stated that everything physical in the world, that is all matter, is sinful. Jesus came in the flesh, which is matter. Jesus took this matter, which you say is sinful, upon Himself to dwell (tabernacle) amongst us. That would mean that He, by logical extension, would also be... sinful. Hence the gnostics saying that it never happened. Why the nestorians say Jesus was only a man, so He could be sinful, and then the Spirit of God came upon Him at baptism, and left Him at the cross, so only a man died. Why? They were unwilling to exercise discernment and realize that if Jesus came in the flesh and was God, then matter/flesh must not be sinful in and of itself. However, for you to be consistent with your belief, Jesus would have to be a sinner, having taken upon Himself the physical aspect of the universe, which you said is sinful by definition.

 

[jeremiah1five]

God is omnipotent. However, that omnipotence is in keeping with His nature of logic.

Logic? There is nothing logic about God.

So God cannot create a stone of eternal weight that not even He can lift. Do you see how that works? That question is irrational because the question asks if God can do something He can't do. Obviously, a rational person knows that no one is going to do what they cannot rationally do. Now you are making a statement of God doing something He cannot do, according to you. Are you still wondering why I say you are irrational? Your statement is irrational, and therefore has NO PLACE IN THE ARGUMENT.

LOL

Once you remove your irrational, illogical, unsound reasoning from the argument, all that is left is that God created man in His image and likeness. And if you look up the word image, and the word likeness, you will find out IMMEDIATELY that it has NOTHING to do with your irrational argument. No reduplication, no photocopy, no facsimile. A LIKENESS, like a lifeless self-portrait is in the image and likeness of the painter.

God gave dominion over the earth, the fish, everything and every creature.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Genesis 1:28.

Let me ask you: Who does this refer to? Adam or Christ? To be consistent it must apply to Adam (man.)

3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers,
The moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him?
And the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,
And hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands;
Thou hast put all things under his feet:
7 All sheep and oxen,
Yea, and the beasts of the field;
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea,
And whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
Psalms 8:3–9.

There appears to be a conflict of interest here. The textbook response is Psalms 8 refers to Christ. Now, what reasoning are you going to give me that it applies to Christ?
Or does it refer to Adam (man.)?

However, it isn't alive, it doesn't breathe, it doesn't smile, etc. Why not? It is only a likeness. We are flesh, God is not flesh. Therefore the likeness does not include that. God is the standard by which sin exists, we obviously can't be that because that is God. God creates from nothing, we can only create from what we see/understand, and from something that exists.

God created both something out of nothing (universe); and God creates something from something (man.) Two Hebrew words in the creation narrative are used for each creative act.

I can't. If you can, then you most certainly aren't speaking of the God in the Bible, as even God is clear that we have no clue. How did God define Himself to the Hebrews. Understand, your name is a definition of yourself. Notice how every name has a meaning. Mine means "wolf counsel", which speaks to wisdom and counsel. How did God define Himself so that the Hebrews would understand Him? He defined Himself... by Himself. Why? There is no shared understanding/experience by which we can hope to understand God. It's like talking to someone who has been blind since birth about the blue sky. They know nothing of color, much less a blue sky. There is no shared experience. You will never be able to explain it to them. It's like explaining the flavor of chicken to a lifelong vegan, since you keep telling them, when they ask what you food tastes like, that it tastes just like chicken. They don't have a clue. No shared experience. God gave His name to the Hebrews "I Am That I Am". I have no idea what a pure light source would look like. Not even the sun is a pure light source. There are sun spots and other blemishes.

You're missing the point entirely. This is about God and whether He can create Himself in Himself, not what others (Hebrews) might understand God in relation to man. I AM THAT I AM (God) against YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE (man.)

How is you denying what God explicitly said (making Him a liar) a textbook response? Also your heretical positions are not original thinking, just thrown out as the heresies they are. What does scripture say about life? There is NOTHING new under the sun. Same heresy, different clothing. Oh, and are those sun glasses? To keep the light out, right?

You have stated that everything physical in the world, that is all matter, is sinful. Jesus came in the flesh, which is matter. Jesus took this matter, which you say is sinful, upon Himself to dwell (tabernacle) amongst us. That would mean that He, by logical extension, would also be... sinful. Hence the gnostics saying that it never happened. Why the nestorians say Jesus was only a man, so He could be sinful, and then the Spirit of God came upon Him at baptism, and left Him at the cross, so only a man died. Why? They were unwilling to exercise discernment and realize that if Jesus came in the flesh and was God, then matter/flesh must not be sinful in and of itself. However, for you to be consistent with your belief, Jesus would have to be a sinner, having taken upon Himself the physical aspect of the universe, which you said is sinful by definition.

The sin nature is communicated through man's sperm. That is the way God created the man. By creating the man with sperm, it implies God knew He would create a woman for him. When sperm and egg meet the sin nature has infected the egg and the child will grow with a sin nature. By removing the man from the equation Jesus is still human yet without a sin nature. But let's address Adam's creation. I say He was created from "dust of the earth" as opposed to the already existent "Lord from heaven," (1 Cor. 15:47) and that he was created sinful ("missing the mark.") He was not a Deity. If he was not Deity, then he was less than God. He did not achieve the standard that is God. Therefore, he was created "fallen short of the glory that is God." The word for that is "sin."

God is light.
I have asked others to close their eyes and imagine God is light in their 'mind's eye.'. Everyone imagines God as a point of light surrounded by darkness. Now, I know our minds are finite and could not in any realm (heaven or earth) fully understand the true Nature and Being of God. BUT there is no darkness in God. There is no darkness surrounding God. Before God created the heaven and the earth it was just Him. There was no heaven as a place where God lives. Heaven is not eternal. God is eternal. And God cannot create a place or location that possesses His eternal Nature. It is impossible for God to create Himself in Himself. Thus, heaven is not a location or place. Heaven is a Person.

 

[armylngst]

Logic? There is nothing logic about God.

Everything is logical about God, because God is the basis of logic. What did God say in scripture. Come let us reason together. LOGIC. Logic cannot be based on humans or the universe, however, the argumentation may be more than you can understand/comprehend. To keep it simple, rules of logic and rationality do not change. Do you want to know something else that doesn't change? God. Humans change all the time. The universe changes. Logic does not. The universe runs according to logic, which means that logic must come from outside, or more straightforward, from the One who created it.

LOL

God gave dominion over the earth, the fish, everything and every creature.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Genesis 1:28.

Let me ask you: Who does this refer to? Adam or Christ? To be consistent it must apply to Adam (man.)

3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers,
The moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him?
And the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,
And hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands;
Thou hast put all things under his feet:
7 All sheep and oxen,
Yea, and the beasts of the field;
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea,
And whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
Psalms 8:3–9.

There appears to be a conflict of interest here. The textbook response is Psalms 8 refers to Christ. Now, what reasoning are you going to give me that it applies to Christ?
Or does it refer to Adam (man.)?

It refers to Jesus, the son of man. This is prophetic. Adam had dominion, Jesus will have (from David's view) dominion. Did you not just spend the last few weeks arguing that God did not give His glory to anyone? Yet right here it says "And hast crowned him with glory and honour." If God keeps His glory, then, since Jesus is God, it must be referring to Jesus, right?

God created both something out of nothing (universe); and God creates something from something (man.) Two Hebrew words in the creation narrative are used for each creative act.

You're missing the point entirely. This is about God and whether He can create Himself in Himself, not what others (Hebrews) might understand God in relation to man. I AM THAT I AM (God) against YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE (man.)

Wow, you really miss what God is saying. Again, God creating Himself in Himself is irrational, and is thus invalid for ANY argument. As invalid as the question Can God create a stone of eternal weight that even He cannot lift. Irrational. God is the foundation of all logic. God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. Logical. Rational. If God is the standard, then all He has and can be is... the standard. There is no way God can miss the standard when He IS the standard.

The sin nature is communicated through man's sperm. That is the way God created the man. By creating the man with sperm, it implies God knew He would create a woman for him. When sperm and egg meet the sin nature has infected the egg and the child will grow with a sin nature.

Please give Bible references for all you say. I notice you don't have any, since there aren't any. There is no reason to believe it is passed on as you say, but it is passed on from father to children. Why? Well, you won't be able to explain because you don't believe that Adam was the federal head of humanity. The sin nature is not material. It is not matter. It is immaterial. How can it be passed on how you say?

By removing the man from the equation Jesus is still human yet without a sin nature. But let's address Adam's creation. I say He was created from "dust of the earth" as opposed to the already existent "Lord from heaven," (1 Cor. 15:47) and that he was created sinful ("missing the mark.") He was not a Deity. If he was not Deity, then he was less than God. He did not achieve the standard that is God. Therefore, he was created "fallen short of the glory that is God." The word for that is "sin."

What you say is true, however, you say that everything physical in the universe is sinful. That would include Jesus, whether or not he had a father or not. So you have ot change from everything physical in the universe is sinful, to everything in the universe is not sinful. What happens when you do that? You come to understand that Adam was not sinful until sin was found in him, which was when he ate the fruit. Then, through Adam, as Paul said, sin entered the creation, and with sin, death. In order to exist missing the mark, one has to... miss the mark. Can you show where, prior to eating the fruit, Adam missed the makr? Biblical references from GENESIS only. From the record God gave us of creation. If you use Paul, you can only use the reference that says that sin entered the world through one man, and by sin, death. That is, only things that EXPLICITLY speak of Adam, so you don't continue to twist and butcher what God has said.

God is light.
I have asked others to close their eyes and imagine God is light in their 'mind's eye.'. Everyone imagines God as a point of light surrounded by darkness. Now, I know our minds are finite and could not in any realm (heaven or earth) fully understand the true Nature and Being of God. BUT there is no darkness in God. There is no darkness surrounding God. Before God created the heaven and the earth it was just Him. There was no heaven as a place where God lives. Heaven is not eternal. God is eternal. And God cannot create a place or location that possesses His eternal Nature. It is impossible for God to create Himself in Himself. Thus, heaven is not a location or place. Heaven is a Person.

We don't know if there was a heaven or not, and to be honest, it isn't worth arguing. As you should be able to see in your argument, it invites everything IRRATIONAL, that is, everything God cannot be. Heaven is not a person, as Paul specifically stated (and God was writing the Bible using Paul) that heaven is a place. Metaphysical, sure, but it is a place. Next you are going to tell me that soul sleep is the only truth. Jesus didn't say He was going to heaven to prepare a person for us. He went to prepare a place. Jesus was going to a place. While it is beyond our ability to truly understand, I'm sure Jesus wasn't lying to us. There is no reason not to see eternity as a place, even if we cannot comprehend what that would mean.

 

[armylngst]

Logic? There is nothing logic about God.

LOL

So God is not logical at all? Is that why the universe is logical, because God is not? That makes absolutely no sense. The reason why good is good, evil is evil, sin is sin, the universe is ordered and logical, is because the Creator is all of those things. That is why science can exist. That is why science works. (Evolution is, by definition, no matter what anyone says, not science.) Science shows that everything is ordered. Every works together as a system. Cause and effect. All these things show that the Creator is logical and ordered. Logic is not material, it is immaterial, and thus cannot be connected to anything physical, such as the human mind, or the universe/nature. It is connected to God, an infinite mind.

God gave dominion over the earth, the fish, everything and every creature.

You don't believe this, because you don't believe that Adam is the federal head. Each time I argued this, you said no.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Genesis 1:28.

I believe this, which is why I understand and believe that all humanity was cursed by sin when Adam sinned. It is also how God has no connection to sin. You see, you say that sin is passed from a predecessor to the next generation. So, who is Adam's predecessor from whom sin was passed that made Adam, as you say, sinful? From whom did Adam's sin nature come from? For me, Adam was created without a sin nature, and is a consequence (cause and effect) of Adam sinning. Adam's spirit died (God said Adam would surely die in the day he ate the fruit), and he gained a sin nature. He no longer simply had a capacity to sin, he was now bound, was now a slave to sin. How this works is in keeping with the economy of slavery. Children born to slaves are... slaves.

Let me ask you: Who does this refer to? Adam or Christ? To be consistent it must apply to Adam (man.)

3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers,
The moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him?
And the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,
And hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands;
Thou hast put all things under his feet:
7 All sheep and oxen,
Yea, and the beasts of the field;
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea,
And whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
Psalms 8:3–9.

There appears to be a conflict of interest here. The textbook response is Psalms 8 refers to Christ. Now, what reasoning are you going to give me that it applies to Christ?
Or does it refer to Adam (man.)?

It refers to Jesus and is one of the prophecies given for Jesus. However, if you don't understand how poetry works, then you wouldn't get it. Also, consider your argument that God doesn't give His glory to anyone. You even used Isaiah to argue this point. Yet here it says that God crowned him with GLORY. Whose glory? It is something given by God right, since God crowned Him. And God gave him honor. Where in Genesis does it say God did this for Adam? Notice how this Psalm says about man. What is man that thou are mindful of him? There David is dealing with man. However, he then adds someone else. AND the son of man, that thou visitest him. Two different people. So the son of man here is the same son of man as is found in the New Testament. Jesus. Why was Jesus called the son of man in the gospels? Sons of god were a dime a dozen. Hercules is but one of many. So Jesus came differently, in full humility. He owned his humanity as much as He was God. It was with Jesus that the Father gave glory and honor. You have read Isaiah 53, right? You do understand that Jesus was made lower than the angels because he did not see equality with God as something to be grasped, but emptied himself and took on the form of a servant. It speaks to the time Jesus was on Earth. On Earth His incognito status was lower than the angels. There is much that you have lost in understanding.

God created both something out of nothing (universe); and God creates something from something (man.) Two Hebrew words in the creation narrative are used for each creative act.

You're missing the point entirely. This is about God and whether He can create Himself in Himself, not what others (Hebrews) might understand God in relation to man. I AM THAT I AM (God) against YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE (man.)

No. No it is not. What you say makes no sense because it is nonsensical. Something God most certainly is not. A name is what defines a person. That is why you don't see Rottweilers named Whitey. They most certainly are not White. Or a White cat named Smokey, and most certainly not Cellar Cat. White cats are Ceiling Cat. God defined Himself by Himself. I Am THAT I Am. Who did God call the man? Moses of course. Men have their own names. God has His own name, however, the name He gave for Himself to Israel said that He is what He is. There is no way to define the name except to know exactly what God is. And that is impossible for man to do. Hence that is the name He gave. It is also given as to why we cannot comprehend the Trinity. It is beyond our ability to comprehend. We only have the little bit that Jesus and the authors of the New Testament gave us, and it isn't much. Even Jesus basically told the Jews that if they can't believe what He says (that He is God) at least believe the works that He does (of the Father). Why? Because the idea of the Trinity is understood if one accepts the works Jesus did of the Father. For if Jesus was lying about being God, He would be incapable of doing the works of the Father. The Father would not work through an imposter. So where an inability to believe is present, due to how one grew up and was taught, it is still possible to tacitly accept this truth.

The sin nature is communicated through man's sperm. That is the way God created the man. By creating the man with sperm, it implies God knew He would create a woman for him. When sperm and egg meet the sin nature has infected the egg and the child will grow with a sin nature.

That isn't how it works, because sin is not physical. Sin is missing God's standard. Are you going to tell us that being a law breaker is passed on through the act of baby making? I mean, God did say that sin is passed on down from father to son to the fourth generation, but what God meant is that the consequences of the sin is passed on, not the sin itself. Why? Elsewhere God says that man is not judged by the action of others, but by their own personal actions. So they aren't wicked by simply existing, even if their dad was wicked. God judges them by their own personal actions. However, the consequences of what the father does remains for generations.

By removing the man from the equation Jesus is still human yet without a sin nature. But let's address Adam's creation. I say He was created from "dust of the earth" as opposed to the already existent "Lord from heaven," (1 Cor. 15:47) and that he was created sinful ("missing the mark.") He was not a Deity. If he was not Deity, then he was less than God. He did not achieve the standard that is God. Therefore, he was created "fallen short of the glory that is God." The word for that is "sin."

This is inconsitence with you saying that everything physical in the universe is sinful simply by existing. So Adam was sinful even though he had never sinned, simply because he is physical and exists in this universe. Who passed a sin nature to Adam? A sin nature comes from another sinner. So was God a sinner, who created Adam with a sin nature by giving Adam a sin nature of Himself? Or was Adam the first, created without sin, and remained that way until he offended God by breaking God's standard by eating the fruit? The correct answer is that Adam was sinless (does not require one to be a deity, it just requires that one has not sinned) until he sinned, at which point his spirit died, in keeping with what God said, and Adam gained a sin nature. That is, Adam sold himself into slavery to sin, and as with the slavery economy, all children are born slaves.

God is light.
I have asked others to close their eyes and imagine God is light in their 'mind's eye.'

You should really leave the occult out of it. If you don't understand why I say that, you may want to look into the occult and how it works. The 'mind's eye' is an occultic thing. More specifically known as the "third eye". You can argue this, but you have no idea where I have been, what I have known, what I have done, etc.

. Everyone imagines God as a point of light surrounded by darkness. Now, I know our minds are finite and could not in any realm (heaven or earth) fully understand the true Nature and Being of God. BUT there is no darkness in God. There is no darkness surrounding God. Before God created the heaven and the earth it was just Him. There was no heaven as a place where God lives. Heaven is not eternal. God is eternal. And God cannot create a place or location that possesses His eternal Nature. It is impossible for God to create Himself in Himself. Thus, heaven is not a location or place. Heaven is a Person.

Why do you ask anyone to imagine something they are incapable of imagining? We can't even be sure what is meant by "God is light". Can it be surrounded by darkness? Sure. Should it be? I would say no, because it would then mean that God's "light" is not all encompassing. However there is a heaven. The Bible is clear. Even Jesus speaks of it. Heaven is not a person. God dwells somewhere, and in eternity is the simplest way to term it. Perhaps heaven is just another name for eternity? You trample on the Bible with your arguments. You give references for some things, and not for others, the reason being is there are no references because what you say is foreign to scripture. You force your foreign beliefs onto scripture, and change it. I mean, you had Jesus Himself LYING. It's almost impossible to be more foreign to scripture than that.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Everything is logical about God, because God is the basis of logic. What did God say in scripture. Come let us reason together. LOGIC. Logic cannot be based on humans or the universe, however, the argumentation may be more than you can understand/comprehend. To keep it simple, rules of logic and rationality do not change. Do you want to know something else that doesn't change? God. Humans change all the time. The universe changes. Logic does not. The universe runs according to logic, which means that logic must come from outside, or more straightforward, from the One who created it.

God is not logical. Where's the logic of "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven:" or "he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."? Or "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." Or "If you desire to be first be last."?

The world contends that if you want to be rich take, take, take (preferably doing it legally.) And we see the famous exalt themselves constantly through words, actions, and PR stunts. The world's system thinks itself logical, but it is grossly flawed and they don't know it. Not even the universe is logical when you get to the level of quantum superposition which defies classical intuition and logic.

It refers to Jesus, the son of man. This is prophetic. Adam had dominion, Jesus will have (from David's view) dominion. Did you not just spend the last few weeks arguing that God did not give His glory to anyone? Yet right here it says "And hast crowned him with glory and honour." If God keeps His glory, then, since Jesus is God, it must be referring to Jesus, right?

Both the declaration in Genesis and Psalm has the Son of God as its subject. Can man command fish into a net that it burst? No. Man has no dominion over anything. Not even their own lives. As Christians we submit our will to the will of God in all we do. The world does not do this. Ours is a suppliant palm to our Lord and the world shakes its fist to our God. This is why the non-Hebrew Gentile world is enemy of God for whoever loves the world does not love the Father. We as born-again believers are never commanded to love the unbelieving world for on both counts it is treason to the Lord to give aid and comfort to His known enemies. But those whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain are blessed beyond anything this world can offer. God's elect people are the only people that are blessed, and they are blessed if they are an unbeliever in the present but marked for salvation in the future. The thing is we do not know who those people are. We are to re-spect unbelievers in the present and cannot give them love until they are born-again of God. Wisdom is required here. The word "re-spect" is a compound word meaning "to look again." When we deal with a stranger we are to re-spect, or look again at who they are before God and act accordingly. We are to try the spirits whether they are of God to discern whether they are brethren or not. We must not join Christ to a harlot as many Christians do in calling an unsaved person "brother" for you do not know whether you and he have the same Father. We are not to be idle in our words for out of them flow the issues of life (or death.)

The command, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:26), and "For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; Thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, Yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, And whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas" (Psalm 8:4-9) are attributed to Christ, not Adam. The term "under his feet" if applied to man can only mean "to trample on, to kill", while "under thy power" is true dominion. And this Christ possesses.

When a person becomes born again, they begin their conformity to the image of Christ, not Adam. We become the image of God when we are born-again in a truer sense. It is our sanctification, and it corresponds to our "measure of faith."Genesis 1:26 was the beginning of the authority God would give to the God-man, Jesus Christ. When we proceed through Scripture all the prophecies of Messiah, the "Prophet like unto Moses" continues through the text of the Bible. He looked forward in time to when Christ would enter the earth and then we see Him in the gospels having dominion over animals, fish, illness, and death, as declared by God.

Wow, you really miss what God is saying. Again, God creating Himself in Himself is irrational, and is thus invalid for ANY argument. As invalid as the question Can God create a stone of eternal weight that even He cannot lift. Irrational. God is the foundation of all logic. God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. Logical. Rational. If God is the standard, then all He has and can be is... the standard. There is no way God can miss the standard when He IS the standard.

God is Eternal. Only God. And He exists within Himself. There is no location with God. Before creation it was only Him. Nothing existed outside of God. We cannot fathom it, but I believe in Scripture. When I said, "God cannot create Himself in Himself" I mean that His contemplation to creating man in Himself is impossible. He cannot do this for man would be exactly like Him and there would be four Gods, which is why this is impossible. God cannot reduplicate Himself in Himself. But He can do it outside Himself through the creation of the universe and space-time. The four dimensions we exist in (thank you, Einstein.) And despite what Marvel says, there is no multiverse. It is an intriguing thought and goes well with mythology and storytelling but from our biblical standpoint there is nothing in Scripture that says there is a multiverse. And I doubt extraterrestrials, UFOs, or little green men. If there is any of these it is not in our knowledge to attain. Nor do I believe Ai would tell us a secret of God.

Please give Bible references for all you say. I notice you don't have any, since there aren't any. There is no reason to believe it is passed on as you say, but it is passed on from father to children. Why? Well, you won't be able to explain because you don't believe that Adam was the federal head of humanity. The sin nature is not material. It is not matter. It is immaterial. How can it be passed on how you say?

I would think you would know Scripture through my paraphrased statements. But I see now you do not know what I know. And what I know is Bible. "Federal Head"? There is no such thing. It is a Gentile theology contrivance. The only Head I know is Christ being Christian. The sin nature is the result of our creation. This is why Adam sinned. He sinned because he was created sinful ("missing the mark.") It is part of our makeup. And I would tend to believe cancer is the physical property of our creation towards death when placed outside of God. God contemplated us, His people, as sinless, holy, and righteous. For there is no sin in God, there is no death in God. And when He blew into the nostrils of Adam and animated him, He blew His (God's) family tree into his loins. So that at the appointed time we, His elect would be born, and at the appointed time born-again. There is nothing in this world's existence for us to attain to which is why we are to set our thoughts on God, on things that are above, on what is of good report. (there, do you recognize that Scripture in my words?) The heavenly Tabernacle is God Himself. There is no structure outside Himself as you would think of in your mind. But God has provided a Way, a Truth, and a Life for us to return back into Trinity through the Son. And Christ being our Mediator will exist in glory. Even after we have been glorified and raised in newness of life God STILL cannot look upon us directly and will have to do it through Christ. Christ will represent God to us, and us to God. We will be hid in Christ (in the Anointing.) <--- there. There's another Scripture I stated. Do you Recognize it? It is not our anointing. It belongs to the Spirit. He is our fragrance. He is our Mediator. This is the reason why Esther was bathed in oils, aloes, and fragrances for six months. Without this she could not stand before the king.

What you say is true, however, you say that everything physical in the universe is sinful. That would include Jesus, whether or not he had a father or not. So you have ot change from everything physical in the universe is sinful, to everything in the universe is not sinful. What happens when you do that? You come to understand that Adam was not sinful until sin was found in him, which was when he ate the fruit. Then, through Adam, as Paul said, sin entered the creation, and with sin, death. In order to exist missing the mark, one has to... miss the mark. Can you show where, prior to eating the fruit, Adam missed the makr? Biblical references from GENESIS only. From the record God gave us of creation. If you use Paul, you can only use the reference that says that sin entered the world through one man, and by sin, death. That is, only things that EXPLICITLY speak of Adam, so you don't continue to twist and butcher what God has said.

The existence of "thou shalt not" in the Garden is proof of Adam's sinfulness. Without Law there is no sin, but just because God did not declare "thou shalt not" immediately does not mean Adam was not sinful. What did Saul say, "when the Commandment came sin revived, and I died." "Revived" means "to live again." So, in what way was it alive before? We know of only one commandment of restriction in the Garden. Incest was how people were born in the beginning. But there came a day when God said, "Thou shalt not!" and then it was sinful. But it is sinning some still commit. But "when the Commandment came (thou shalt not lay with thy sister), sin revived, and died." Yes, but Saul doesn't equate "sin entered the world through one man" with an act. He states it as through man's existence as a sinful man in his creation. Sin entered the world (through the creation) of one man.

We don't know if there was a heaven or not, and to be honest, it isn't worth arguing. As you should be able to see in your argument, it invites everything IRRATIONAL, that is, everything God cannot be. Heaven is not a person, as Paul specifically stated (and God was writing the Bible using Paul) that heaven is a place. Metaphysical, sure, but it is a place. Next you are going to tell me that soul sleep is the only truth. Jesus didn't say He was going to heaven to prepare a person for us. He went to prepare a place. Jesus was going to a place. While it is beyond our ability to truly understand, I'm sure Jesus wasn't lying to us. There is no reason not to see eternity as a place, even if we cannot comprehend what that would mean.

God does not exist in time. We are all already with God. There is no soul sleep. To be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD. And there is no time with God. To Him all mankind has died, His elect is with Him, I am with Him. The rest are eternally separated. From God's perspective all has been said and done, Christ returned, all things are His, and we are already with God. The word "mansion" means "apartments." Apart-ments. What body part are you? Do you know? In this world Christ dwells within us. When we get to glory, we will dwell within Him. Back into Trinity from whence we were first contemplated. Back into God. Heaven is a Person.

 

[jeremiah1five]

So God is not logical at all? Is that why the universe is logical, because God is not? That makes absolutely no sense. The reason why good is good, evil is evil, sin is sin, the universe is ordered and logical, is because the Creator is all of those things. That is why science can exist. That is why science works. (Evolution is, by definition, no matter what anyone says, not science.) Science shows that everything is ordered. Every works together as a system. Cause and effect. All these things show that the Creator is logical and ordered. Logic is not material, it is immaterial, and thus cannot be connected to anything physical, such as the human mind, or the universe/nature. It is connected to God, an infinite mind.

You don't believe this, because you don't believe that Adam is the federal head. Each time I argued this, you said no.

I believe this, which is why I understand and believe that all humanity was cursed by sin when Adam sinned. It is also how God has no connection to sin. You see, you say that sin is passed from a predecessor to the next generation. So, who is Adam's predecessor from whom sin was passed that made Adam, as you say, sinful? From whom did Adam's sin nature come from? For me, Adam was created without a sin nature, and is a consequence (cause and effect) of Adam sinning. Adam's spirit died (God said Adam would surely die in the day he ate the fruit), and he gained a sin nature. He no longer simply had a capacity to sin, he was now bound, was now a slave to sin. How this works is in keeping with the economy of slavery. Children born to slaves are... slaves.

It refers to Jesus and is one of the prophecies given for Jesus. However, if you don't understand how poetry works, then you wouldn't get it. Also, consider your argument that God doesn't give His glory to anyone. You even used Isaiah to argue this point. Yet here it says that God crowned him with GLORY. Whose glory? It is something given by God right, since God crowned Him. And God gave him honor. Where in Genesis does it say God did this for Adam? Notice how this Psalm says about man. What is man that thou are mindful of him? There David is dealing with man. However, he then adds someone else. AND the son of man, that thou visitest him. Two different people. So the son of man here is the same son of man as is found in the New Testament. Jesus. Why was Jesus called the son of man in the gospels? Sons of god were a dime a dozen. Hercules is but one of many. So Jesus came differently, in full humility. He owned his humanity as much as He was God. It was with Jesus that the Father gave glory and honor. You have read Isaiah 53, right? You do understand that Jesus was made lower than the angels because he did not see equality with God as something to be grasped, but emptied himself and took on the form of a servant. It speaks to the time Jesus was on Earth. On Earth His incognito status was lower than the angels. There is much that you have lost in understanding.

No. No it is not. What you say makes no sense because it is nonsensical. Something God most certainly is not. A name is what defines a person. That is why you don't see Rottweilers named Whitey. They most certainly are not White. Or a White cat named Smokey, and most certainly not Cellar Cat. White cats are Ceiling Cat. God defined Himself by Himself. I Am THAT I Am. Who did God call the man? Moses of course. Men have their own names. God has His own name, however, the name He gave for Himself to Israel said that He is what He is. There is no way to define the name except to know exactly what God is. And that is impossible for man to do. Hence that is the name He gave. It is also given as to why we cannot comprehend the Trinity. It is beyond our ability to comprehend. We only have the little bit that Jesus and the authors of the New Testament gave us, and it isn't much. Even Jesus basically told the Jews that if they can't believe what He says (that He is God) at least believe the works that He does (of the Father). Why? Because the idea of the Trinity is understood if one accepts the works Jesus did of the Father. For if Jesus was lying about being God, He would be incapable of doing the works of the Father. The Father would not work through an imposter. So where an inability to believe is present, due to how one grew up and was taught, it is still possible to tacitly accept this truth.

That isn't how it works, because sin is not physical. Sin is missing God's standard. Are you going to tell us that being a law breaker is passed on through the act of baby making? I mean, God did say that sin is passed on down from father to son to the fourth generation, but what God meant is that the consequences of the sin is passed on, not the sin itself. Why? Elsewhere God says that man is not judged by the action of others, but by their own personal actions. So they aren't wicked by simply existing, even if their dad was wicked. God judges them by their own personal actions. However, the consequences of what the father does remains for generations.

This is inconsitence with you saying that everything physical in the universe is sinful simply by existing. So Adam was sinful even though he had never sinned, simply because he is physical and exists in this universe. Who passed a sin nature to Adam? A sin nature comes from another sinner. So was God a sinner, who created Adam with a sin nature by giving Adam a sin nature of Himself? Or was Adam the first, created without sin, and remained that way until he offended God by breaking God's standard by eating the fruit? The correct answer is that Adam was sinless (does not require one to be a deity, it just requires that one has not sinned) until he sinned, at which point his spirit died, in keeping with what God said, and Adam gained a sin nature. That is, Adam sold himself into slavery to sin, and as with the slavery economy, all children are born slaves.

You should really leave the occult out of it. If you don't understand why I say that, you may want to look into the occult and how it works. The 'mind's eye' is an occultic thing. More specifically known as the "third eye". You can argue this, but you have no idea where I have been, what I have known, what I have done, etc.

Why do you ask anyone to imagine something they are incapable of imagining? We can't even be sure what is meant by "God is light". Can it be surrounded by darkness? Sure. Should it be? I would say no, because it would then mean that God's "light" is not all encompassing. However there is a heaven. The Bible is clear. Even Jesus speaks of it. Heaven is not a person. God dwells somewhere, and in eternity is the simplest way to term it. Perhaps heaven is just another name for eternity? You trample on the Bible with your arguments. You give references for some things, and not for others, the reason being is there are no references because what you say is foreign to scripture. You force your foreign beliefs onto scripture, and change it. I mean, you had Jesus Himself LYING. It's almost impossible to be more foreign to scripture than that.

I think this is the same "in other words."
But one thing. It's not occultic to say, "mind's eye." Where is our faculty of sight? In the brain/mind. What your eyes see is translated in the brain/mind.
Salvation is of the mind. Did you know that? Or must I explain this biblically as well.

 

[armylngst]

God is not logical. Where's the logic of "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven:" or "he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."? Or "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." Or "If you desire to be first be last."?

If God is not logical, then God does not exist. Now, just because your man logic causes God's logic not to make sense to you, that means God's not logical? Our logic is corrupt. It is off because we do not truly understand all that God is. If we did, our logic would be spot on. As not being a part of the world, if we give up the things of this world, then we have treasure in heaven. God rewards us. If we humble ourselves, as God commands, then He will exalt us, as He exalted His Son. If you lose your life for God, you will find it in God. And the idea of to be first be last is the same as humbling ourselves. What did Paul say to the church? He was upset that they were proud, and gave them Christ's example and told the church to be like Christ. Humble like Christ, who was humble even to death.

The world contends that if you want to be rich take, take, take (preferably doing it legally.) And we see the famous exalt themselves constantly through words, actions, and PR stunts. The world's system thinks itself logical, but it is grossly flawed and they don't know it. Not even the universe is logical when you get to the level of quantum superposition which defies classical intuition and logic.

Why would you connect God tot he world's system? God is the creator of the universe. The world He created, the creation He created WAS good when He was done. Adam messed that up. The system I speak of in relation to the world, is that which runs the universe. The world orbits the sun, everything moves according to physical laws understood through Logic. We did not make those laws, or the logic, we observe them and then write down what we observed. It isn't perfect, but it works pretty well. As for quantum mechanics and physics, no one is sure about any of it. And we are talking about God's logic, the logic of the Creator imbued onto the Creation. There is one thing about making things, like God making is in His image and likeness. If someone who knows you inside and out looks at something you make, they will see you in it. There is a part of you in all that you make. There is a part of God, well, simply a likeness, of God in us. If some other god (if they existed) came across earth, they would see God in us. The part that is there simply because He made us, and He specifically focused on US. He didn't spend that time on the animals. A lot of them he made after Adam just so He could watch Adam name them all.

Both the declaration in Genesis and Psalm has the Son of God as its subject. Can man command fish into a net that it burst? No. Man has no dominion over anything.

Again, Genesis does not have the son of man as its subject. Read it again. It speaks to Adam.
"26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

I understand you want to make Jesus a created being, and not God, but that is wrong. Jesus is God. Without Jesus nothing was created that was created according to John 1. Adam gave up the dominion to Satan/Lucifer when he sinned. That is why Satan/Lucifer is the prince of the air, the prince of this world. Like Prince John in Robin Hood's story, trying to steal the kingdom from the true king. He took it from the one God gave dominion to (Adam), and is keeping it from the future One true King, Jesus. However, with the scroll of seven seals in Revelation, Jesus takes back the world, His inheritance.

Not even their own lives. As Christians we submit our will to the will of God in all we do. The world does not do this. Ours is a suppliant palm to our Lord and the world shakes its fist to our God. This is why the non-Hebrew Gentile world is enemy of God for whoever loves the world does not love the Father. We as born-again believers are never commanded to love the unbelieving world for on both counts it is treason to the Lord to give aid and comfort to His known enemies. But those whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain are blessed beyond anything this world can offer. God's elect people are the only people that are blessed, and they are blessed if they are an unbeliever in the present but marked for salvation in the future. The thing is we do not know who those people are. We are to re-spect unbelievers in the present and cannot give them love until they are born-again of God. Wisdom is required here. The word "re-spect" is a compound word meaning "to look again." When we deal with a stranger we are to re-spect, or look again at who they are before God and act accordingly. We are to try the spirits whether they are of God to discern whether they are brethren or not. We must not join Christ to a harlot as many Christians do in calling an unsaved person "brother" for you do not know whether you and he have the same Father. We are not to be idle in our words for out of them flow the issues of life (or death.)

So you deny Jesus' command? Love your enemies. That is what Jesus said. We are to be in the world, so we, like Jesus are to be dealing with people. Jesus hung out with tax collectors, prostitutes, thieves, etc. He didn't hang out with the religious leaders. He didn't have anything good to say about them. He went to those who were hurting, those full of sin, to be a physician to the sick. We are to be out amongst the populace, the sinners, preachign righteousness. As Jesus put it, we are to go out into the world and make disciples of all nations. We are to love our enemies and pray for them. Pray for our leadership. We are to preach the gospel to all nations. We are not to consider them believers, however, we are to treat them well. IF they are false teachers presenting a false Jesus or a false God, then we are to treat them as the worst of sinners, or I would say, treat them as Jesus treated the self righteous religious leaders. Avoid them like the plague, lest you support them, and help them spread their heresies.

The command, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:26), and "For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; Thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, Yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, And whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas" (Psalm 8:4-9) are attributed to Christ, not Adam. The term "under his feet" if applied to man can only mean "to trample on, to kill", while "under thy power" is true dominion. And this Christ possesses.

Under his feet means under his control/domination. You should look it up. So when it says that Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father until the Father makes His enemies His footstool (under foot), it is until the Father puts Jesus' enemies under Jesus domination. Genesis 1:26 is speaking of Adam. Adam surrendered this when he sinned. Adam lost the dominion God had given him. Satan took that dominion. That is why Satan could take Jesus to the highest mountain, show him all the nations of the world, and tell Jesus that he would give all of it to Jesus if only Jesus worship him. Satan took that from Adam when Adam sinned. However, even though Satan has dominion over the world, God's dominion/Kingdom is all of creation. As the King of creation, Satan still has to bow to God's authority.

When a person becomes born again, they begin their conformity to the image of Christ, not Adam. We become the image of God when we are born-again in a truer sense. It is our sanctification, and it corresponds to our "measure of faith."Genesis 1:26 was the beginning of the authority God would give to the God-man, Jesus Christ. When we proceed through Scripture all the prophecies of Messiah, the "Prophet like unto Moses" continues through the text of the Bible. He looked forward in time to when Christ would enter the earth and then we see Him in the gospels having dominion over animals, fish, illness, and death, as declared by God.

We do not become the image of God. We have the image of God. Again, look at it more as what God put in us as part of creating us. There is a part of the artist in everything they make. God specifically paused to say, let us make man in our own image and likeness. This speaks to the special nature of humanity in creation. Above the animals, who are not created in God's image. We are the pinnacle of God's creation. When we are saved, we begin to conform to Christ's image. In that, the corruption of God's image in us is brought back to where it was. However, we will not truly regain what was lost until we are glorified in heaven, with new glorified bodies made for glory. (As contrasted to the body of sinners, made for torment.)

Jesus, technically, did not have dominion over animals, fish, illness, and death. He had full authority because He is God. Disciples had to cast out demons using Jesus name with the power Jesus gave to them before sending them out. Jesus didn't need any of that. He ordered them out, as the one with full authority. He didn't cast out demons in Jesus name. He just commanded them. They knew who He was, and HIs word was final. This is further underscored by the demon that the disciples could not cast out. It didn't take any time at all for Jesus.

God is Eternal. Only God. And He exists within Himself. There is no location with God. Before creation it was only Him. Nothing existed outside of God. We cannot fathom it, but I believe in Scripture. When I said, "God cannot create Himself in Himself" I mean that His contemplation to creating man in Himself is impossible.

This is wasting time. It is irrational, and does not mean anything. I always only talk about what God can and did do. God does not contemplate the irrational, that is, those things which are sin (missing the standard). There is no darkness in God's light. So stop putting darkness in God's light. Rationality only. God said "Come, let us reason together". Reason is logic. Reason is rationality.

He cannot do this for man would be exactly like Him and there would be four Gods, which is why this is impossible.

First of all, this is false. Why? Because everything you said is irrational, so was never a thing. Secondly, there is only ONE GOD. There isn't even three. There is ONE. IF man is sinless, He is not exactly like God. God is also omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, invisible, eternal, etc. So please, stop with the fallacies, and the irrational discussion. Reason it out. There is but one Being, God, made up of three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the Godhead. One God.

God cannot reduplicate Himself in Himself. But He can do it outside Himself through the creation of the universe and space-time. The four dimensions we exist in (thank you, Einstein.) And despite what Marvel says, there is no multiverse. It is an intriguing thought and goes well with mythology and storytelling but from our biblical standpoint there is nothing in Scripture that says there is a multiverse. And I doubt extraterrestrials, UFOs, or little green men. If there is any of these it is not in our knowledge to attain. Nor do I believe Ai would tell us a secret of God.

God did not reduplicate, duplicate, copy, or fax Himself. It never happened. He created Adam in His image and likeness. Like us being Christ like. We don't become Christ. It means our behavior and actions are in a manner like how Christ acted and how He was. Being created in God's likeness means we are like God in ways, but we are not God. We were without sin to start, but Adam sinned and thus ended that fairly quickly. That view of the image of God dimmed in the corruption. There are other things, but they are most certainly not DEIFIC. I don't know where you get such heretical ideas from, unless you are a fan of TBN.

I would think you would know Scripture through my paraphrased statements. But I see now you do not know what I know. And what I know is Bible. "Federal Head"? There is no such thing. It is a Gentile theology contrivance. The only Head I know is Christ being Christian. The sin nature is the result of our creation.

So you don't believe God? Adam was the federal head of humanity, which is just a more direct way of saying he is the progenitor of humanity. The very first of the created humans. Eve came next. It explains how and why sin passed on to Adam's progeny. Now if you are going to tell me that sin did not pass down from Adam, you can just quit now, for that makes you a heretic.

This is why Adam sinned. He sinned because he was created sinful ("missing the mark.")

That term "missing the mark", I don't think it means what you think it means. The mark is a standard. The standard God set was, do not eat that fruit. Adam did not miss the standard/mark until he ate the fruit. If Adam was created "missing the mark", then God missed the mark, which means God sinned. Why is it that every way YOU word it makes God a sinner. Also, for God to miss the mark as you say He did, would mean that there is darkness in God's light. However, the Bible says God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. God did not screw up. God cannot screw up.

It is part of our makeup. And I would tend to believe cancer is the physical property of our creation towards death when placed outside of God. God contemplated us, His people, as sinless, holy, and righteous. For there is no sin in God, there is no death in God. And when He blew into the nostrils of Adam and animated him, He blew His (God's) family tree into his loins. So that at the appointed time we, His elect would be born, and at the appointed time born-again. There is nothing in this world's existence for us to attain to which is why we are to set our thoughts on God, on things that are above, on what is of good report. (there, do you recognize that Scripture in my words?) The heavenly Tabernacle is God Himself. There is no structure outside Himself as you would think of in your mind. But God has provided a Way, a Truth, and a Life for us to return back into Trinity through the Son. And Christ being our Mediator will exist in glory. Even after we have been glorified and raised in newness of life God STILL cannot look upon us directly and will have to do it through Christ. Christ will represent God to us, and us to God. We will be hid in Christ (in the Anointing.) <--- there. There's another Scripture I stated. Do you Recognize it? It is not our anointing. It belongs to the Spirit. He is our fragrance. He is our Mediator. This is the reason why Esther was bathed in oils, aloes, and fragrances for six months. Without this she could not stand before the king.

I avoid mysticism.

The existence of "thou shalt not" in the Garden is proof of Adam's sinfulness.

No it is not. It is proof that God has and that God set a standard. That is it. You keep adding to what God has said and to the Bible. Makes me wonder when Revelation kicks in.

Without Law there is no sin, but just because God did not declare "thou shalt not" immediately does not mean Adam was not sinful.

Yes, yes it does. Adam was not sinful until he sinned. Rationality is an attribute of God, but one you apparently deny, and cannot grasp. The LAW did not exist until God gave it to Moses. This "thou shalt not" was a command. Do not do this. A standard. Adam did not miss the standard (sin) until he missed the standard (sinned). IT is like the simplest concept that God has given us. And God underscored it HIMSELF when scripture says that Adam's eyes opened when he ate the fruit, not before. He discovered sinful nakedness AFTER he ate the fruit. He had no sin until... he actually sinned. And God determined, absolutely, that Adam would sin.

What did Saul say, "when the Commandment came sin revived, and I died." "Revived" means "to live again." So, in what way was it alive before? We know of only one commandment of restriction in the Garden. Incest was how people were born in the beginning. But there came a day when God said, "Thou shalt not!" and then it was sinful. But it is sinning some still commit. But "when the Commandment came (thou shalt not lay with thy sister), sin revived, and died." Yes, but Saul doesn't equate "sin entered the world through one man" with an act. He states it as through man's existence as a sinful man in his creation. Sin entered the world (through the creation) of one man.

You ignore everything else that Paul said. You may want to reread Romans 7. It is clear that sin did not affect Paul until he broke the commandment.

God does not exist in time. We are all already with God. There is no soul sleep. To be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD. And there is no time with God. To Him all mankind has died, His elect is with Him, I am with Him. The rest are eternally separated. From God's perspective all has been said and done, Christ returned, all things are His, and we are already with God. The word "mansion" means "apartments." Apart-ments. What body part are you? Do you know? In this world Christ dwells within us. When we get to glory, we will dwell within Him. Back into Trinity from whence we were first contemplated. Back into God. Heaven is a Person.

No, God does not exist in time. No, we are not already with God. There is no soul sleep. There is time with God, however, it is not viewed in the same way we view it. He is not affected by time for He is eternal. Mansions means like rooms. Not sure it is as far as apartment, but it's not a bad idea.

 

[armylngst]

I think this is the same "in other words."
But one thing. It's not occultic to say, "mind's eye." Where is our faculty of sight? In the brain/mind. What your eyes see is translated in the brain/mind.
Salvation is of the mind. Did you know that? Or must I explain this biblically as well.

Salvation is of the SOUL/SPIRIT. Let's see if you get that.

 

[jeremiah1five]

If God is not logical, then God does not exist. Now, just because your man logic causes God's logic not to make sense to you, that means God's not logical? Our logic is corrupt. It is off because we do not truly understand all that God is. If we did, our logic would be spot on. As not being a part of the world, if we give up the things of this world, then we have treasure in heaven. God rewards us. If we humble ourselves, as God commands, then He will exalt us, as He exalted His Son. If you lose your life for God, you will find it in God. And the idea of to be first be last is the same as humbling ourselves. What did Paul say to the church? He was upset that they were proud, and gave them Christ's example and told the church to be like Christ. Humble like Christ, who was humble even to death.

Again, God is NOT logical. Logic is the philosophy of man not God. There is nothing logic in what Jesus taught the Jews. The logical way to be rich is to accumulate wealth. But Jesus says, "if you want to be rich give away all you have."

The logical way to be exalted is to publish yourself and to exalt yourself that way. But God says, "if you want to be exalted, humble yourself and I will exalt you."

The logical way of life and living according to the world's logical mindset is to live it up to the fullest, while God says "to gain your life you must die to yourself."

No, God is not logical. He is paradoxical.

Why would you connect God tot he world's system? God is the creator of the universe. The world He created, the creation He created WAS good when He was done. Adam messed that up. The system I speak of in relation to the world, is that which runs the universe. The world orbits the sun, everything moves according to physical laws understood through Logic. We did not make those laws, or the logic, we observe them and then write down what we observed. It isn't perfect, but it works pretty well. As for quantum mechanics and physics, no one is sure about any of it. And we are talking about God's logic, the logic of the Creator imbued onto the Creation. There is one thing about making things, like God making is in His image and likeness. If someone who knows you inside and out looks at something you make, they will see you in it. There is a part of you in all that you make. There is a part of God, well, simply a likeness, of God in us. If some other god (if they existed) came across earth, they would see God in us. The part that is there simply because He made us, and He specifically focused on US. He didn't spend that time on the animals. A lot of them he made after Adam just so He could watch Adam name them all.

No, that is incorrect. The word "good" in the creation narrative merely means "to specification." It doesn't mean perfect or holy or sinless or moral. The word "good" means "to specification" meaning after God created something and it came out to specification of the way He wanted it to be created He says so. We say the same thing when we bake a meal from a recipe that comes out good, it comes out as specified by the recipe and we say, "yum, that's good." There's another Hebrew word that has moral connotations and meaning and it is NOT used here in the creation narrative. All creation is fallen short of God's glory. It is sinful. And what is "sinful"?
Sin is lack of conformity to the character and nature of God. Since God cannot create Himself in Himself He had to create the universe and bring time-space into existence and in that "petri-dish" bring into existence His Plan of Man.
Man was created from previously created matter (dust/dirt of the ground), while Jesus Christ is "Lord from heaven."
One is of the earth, earthy; the other is the Lord from heaven. The first Adam was sinful in his creation which is why he sinned for sin comes from sinner; and the last Adam (Christ) was not created but born of God.

Again, Genesis does not have the son of man as its subject. Read it again. It speaks to Adam.
"26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

I understand you want to make Jesus a created being, and not God, but that is wrong. Jesus is God. Without Jesus nothing was created that was created according to John 1. Adam gave up the dominion to Satan/Lucifer when he sinned. That is why Satan/Lucifer is the prince of the air, the prince of this world. Like Prince John in Robin Hood's story, trying to steal the kingdom from the true king. He took it from the one God gave dominion to (Adam), and is keeping it from the future One true King, Jesus. However, with the scroll of seven seals in Revelation, Jesus takes back the world, His inheritance.

No, man is the created being. Christ is the Lord from heaven who was born holy. Sin does not come or is committed by a sinless Person: Jesus.

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 1:35.

Jesus was holy and did no sin. Adam was created sinful and sinned. God is teaching a distinction between the first man (Adam) and the last Adam (Christ.) Adam sinned because he was sinful ("missing the mark.") Jesus Christ was holy and committed no sin neither was guild found in His mouth. This biblical teaching is foundation and paramount to understanding the great distance of character between Adam and Christ.

So you deny Jesus' command? Love your enemies. That is what Jesus said. We are to be in the world, so we, like Jesus are to be dealing with people. Jesus hung out with tax collectors, prostitutes, thieves, etc. He didn't hang out with the religious leaders. He didn't have anything good to say about them. He went to those who were hurting, those full of sin, to be a physician to the sick. We are to be out amongst the populace, the sinners, preachign righteousness. As Jesus put it, we are to go out into the world and make disciples of all nations. We are to love our enemies and pray for them. Pray for our leadership. We are to preach the gospel to all nations. We are not to consider them believers, however, we are to treat them well. IF they are false teachers presenting a false Jesus or a false God, then we are to treat them as the worst of sinners, or I would say, treat them as Jesus treated the self righteous religious leaders. Avoid them like the plague, lest you support them, and help them spread their heresies.

No, I understand Jesus' command to "love your enemies." While you misinterpret Jesus entirely.

Jesus is speaking to Jews. He brings up a precept God gave to the children of Israel in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle after God placed the tribes in lots around the Tabernacle. Three tribes were situated to the north of the Tabernacle, three tribes were placed by God to the west of the Tabernacle, etc. From the air it took the shape of an "X" or cross. Then God commanded the children of Israel:

17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:17–18.

"Thy brother" was a member of the same tribe.
"Neighbor" was a member of a tribe living next to another tribe.
"Children of thy people" is a member of ANY tribe, and,
"Neighbor" again, is a member of a tribe living next to another tribe.

In Matthew Jesus is teaching the Jews the following when He brings up the subject of "love" God originally commanded the children of Israel in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle:

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:43–45.

If you know anything about Jewish history, then you would know that after the death of Solomon the kingdom divided. Ten northern kingdom tribes called "Israel" against two southern kingdom tribes called Judah, and each claiming rightful heir to Solomons throne. In Scripture, these two kingdoms warred against each other several times before they were both defeated by Assyria and Babylon. Moses promised the children of Israel God would send Jesus as a "Prophet like unto me [Moses.]"
John the Baptist said in John 1:31 Jesus was sent and appeared (manifest) to Israel. And in the first century AD there were still animosities against the twelve tribes. Jesus as King of the Jews is trying to teach unity and forgiveness among His subject but His words would not be fulfilled until He possesses the throne of David after Armageddon.

In Matthew 5:43 Jesus brings up the Levitical command of God He gave to Israel on love. What Jesus is teaching the Jews must be understood in the context in which it was given: TO THE JEWS.
It was not given to Gentiles but today Gentiles interpret "neighbor" as someone living next to you in an apartment complex or a family living next to another family on a suburban city block. That is the wrong interpretation of Jesus' teaching to the Jewish multitude in Matthew 5.
Also in Matthew 5 Jesus brings up the Law on "killing" and in "forswearing's," and the Law of retribution of "eye for an eye," etc.
In Matthew 5 Jesus is teaching the children of Israel on things contained in the Law of Moses which Laws were given to Israel NOT Gentiles. To interpret Jesus and insert "Gentiles" into His teaching is a violation of the Law and of Jesus teaching of the Law on love. God commanded Israel to love Israel. God never commanded the Jews to love Gentiles.
But that is how His words are misinterpreted today.

Under his feet means under his control/domination. You should look it up. So when it says that Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father until the Father makes His enemies His footstool (under foot), it is until the Father puts Jesus' enemies under Jesus domination. Genesis 1:26 is speaking of Adam. Adam surrendered this when he sinned. Adam lost the dominion God had given him. Satan took that dominion. That is why Satan could take Jesus to the highest mountain, show him all the nations of the world, and tell Jesus that he would give all of it to Jesus if only Jesus worship him. Satan took that from Adam when Adam sinned. However, even though Satan has dominion over the world, God's dominion/Kingdom is all of creation. As the King of creation, Satan still has to bow to God's authority.

The bottom line is Christ possesses all authority (Matthew 28:19-20) and God gives Him the glory not man.
The angels that sinned were locked up before God created man and there is no such thing as "by sinning Adam gave up his dominion" and all that other false understanding of the Biblical text. Christ is central to the Biblical record and NOT man. But you give way too much glory to man and "Satan." Christ doesn't share His authority with man. There is no conflict of interest. All dominion from the beginning was given to the Son of God.

We do not become the image of God. We have the image of God. Again, look at it more as what God put in us as part of creating us. There is a part of the artist in everything they make. God specifically paused to say, let us make man in our own image and likeness. This speaks to the special nature of humanity in creation. Above the animals, who are not created in God's image. We are the pinnacle of God's creation. When we are saved, we begin to conform to Christ's image. In that, the corruption of God's image in us is brought back to where it was. However, we will not truly regain what was lost until we are glorified in heaven, with new glorified bodies made for glory. (As contrasted to the body of sinners, made for torment.)

Sinful, fallen man is NOT the image of God. I already gave you Biblical proof as to who the image of God is:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Colossians 1:15–16.

Christ is the image of God, and there is no better image of a Father than a Son.

Jesus, technically, did not have dominion over animals, fish, illness, and death. He had full authority because He is God. Disciples had to cast out demons using Jesus name with the power Jesus gave to them before sending them out. Jesus didn't need any of that. He ordered them out, as the one with full authority. He didn't cast out demons in Jesus name. He just commanded them. They knew who He was, and HIs word was final. This is further underscored by the demon that the disciples could not cast out. It didn't take any time at all for Jesus.

Anybody who knew who Jesus was learned it personally by interacting with Him or by word of mouth as news of Him was publicized across Israel.
And "demons" are not fallen angels. They do not have creative powers to change their nature. Besides this, the angels that sinned were locked up to await judgment.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

Man is on his own on the planet and always has been. There is no such thing as "the devil made me do it." The angels that sinned were all locked up. I don't understand how you can see these proofs and reject the Scripture.

This is wasting time. It is irrational, and does not mean anything. I always only talk about what God can and did do. God does not contemplate the irrational, that is, those things which are sin (missing the standard). There is no darkness in God's light. So stop putting darkness in God's light. Rationality only. God said "Come, let us reason together". Reason is logic. Reason is rationality.

Reason is not logic Are not the same thing.

First of all, this is false. Why? Because everything you said is irrational, so was never a thing. Secondly, there is only ONE GOD. There isn't even three. There is ONE. IF man is sinless, He is not exactly like God. God is also omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, invisible, eternal, etc. So please, stop with the fallacies, and the irrational discussion. Reason it out. There is but one Being, God, made up of three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the Godhead. One God.

That's right. Man is NOT like God and for this reason he is fallen short of God's glory. He is fallen SHORT and the word for this is "sin."

God did not reduplicate, duplicate, copy, or fax Himself. It never happened. He created Adam in His image and likeness. Like us being Christ like. We don't become Christ. It means our behavior and actions are in a manner like how Christ acted and how He was. Being created in God's likeness means we are like God in ways, but we are not God. We were without sin to start, but Adam sinned and thus ended that fairly quickly. That view of the image of God dimmed in the corruption. There are other things, but they are most certainly not DEIFIC. I don't know where you get such heretical ideas from, unless you are a fan of TBN.

So you don't believe God? Adam was the federal head of humanity, which is just a more direct way of saying he is the progenitor of humanity. The very first of the created humans. Eve came next. It explains how and why sin passed on to Adam's progeny. Now if you are going to tell me that sin did not pass down from Adam, you can just quit now, for that makes you a heretic.

That term "missing the mark", I don't think it means what you think it means. The mark is a standard. The standard God set was, do not eat that fruit. Adam did not miss the standard/mark until he ate the fruit. If Adam was created "missing the mark", then God missed the mark, which means God sinned. Why is it that every way YOU word it makes God a sinner. Also, for God to miss the mark as you say He did, would mean that there is darkness in God's light. However, the Bible says God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. God did not screw up. God cannot screw up.

I avoid mysticism.

No it is not. It is proof that God has and that God set a standard. That is it. You keep adding to what God has said and to the Bible. Makes me wonder when Revelation kicks in.

Yes, yes it does. Adam was not sinful until he sinned. Rationality is an attribute of God, but one you apparently deny, and cannot grasp. The LAW did not exist until God gave it to Moses. This "thou shalt not" was a command. Do not do this. A standard. Adam did not miss the standard (sin) until he missed the standard (sinned). IT is like the simplest concept that God has given us. And God underscored it HIMSELF when scripture says that Adam's eyes opened when he ate the fruit, not before. He discovered sinful nakedness AFTER he ate the fruit. He had no sin until... he actually sinned. And God determined, absolutely, that Adam would sin.

You ignore everything else that Paul said. You may want to reread Romans 7. It is clear that sin did not affect Paul until he broke the commandment.

No, God does not exist in time. No, we are not already with God. There is no soul sleep. There is time with God, however, it is not viewed in the same way we view it. He is not affected by time for He is eternal. Mansions means like rooms. Not sure it is as far as apartment, but it's not a bad idea.

Wow, you are so infected with false teaching on many levels. I think you should put down those theology books and other false devotionals and study the Word of God the way Saul did it: under the anointing and with a good Scripture. There are many translations that are flawed and corrupt translations and you need to get yourself a KJV because that is the best English translation for English-speaking people. All these new-age, modern translations made from the Greek version of Westcott & Hort and all just bad, corrupt, translations.
Study under the anointing. Let God direct your thoughts and your understanding of His Word and throw away all those theology books that have it wrong. All you need is a good translation and the Holy Spirit. He will guide you into all truth, but if your reliance is upon other people's bible studies and not your own anointed study then you will end up with believing false things and lies about the One True God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Salvation is of the SOUL/SPIRIT. Let's see if you get that.

Salvation occurs in the mind. Repentance occurs in the mind. The Greek word "metanoia" means, "to change one's MIND." A changed mind is a repented mind and in repentance there is salvation. Salvation of the body and of the whole being occurs lastly when Christ returns and our bodies are changed at the trump of God in the twinkle of an eye. This comes at the end when Christ returns. Until then we are still in this body of this death until we are changed from above when Christ returns.

 

[e v e]

the tree of the OP title is the death realm,
and this current earth is within it.
we live in a satanic realm where everything dies.


Christ asks us to leave it behind and follow Him.

 

[e v e]

God warned adam of this. adam betrayed God
anyway .

and here we are in this dungeon .

 

[e v e]

the mind is generally the carnal mind.

it is death.

 

[e v e]

judaism and its esaus reject christ .


that is the only point to consider .

the israelites were not part of judaism though the pharisees in their time indeed were .

 

[jeremiah1five]

God warned adam of this. adam betrayed God
anyway .

and here we are in this dungeon .

Actually, we're on the first floor trying to make it to the balcony.

 

[Jim]

Again, God is NOT logical. Logic is the philosophy of man not God. There is nothing logic in what Jesus taught the Jews. The logical way to be rich is to accumulate wealth. But Jesus says, "if you want to be rich give away all you have."

If God is not logical, then there is no basis for believing anything that God has said in His written word. When Jesus spoke of being rich in that verse He obviously was not referring to being rich in physical wealth. He was speaking being Spiritually rich, in which case He was indeed perfectly logical.

I suspect your objection to God's being logical is precisely why you are so wrong about so much of God's teaching.

 

[jeremiah1five]

If God is not logical, then there is no basis for believing anything that God has said in His written word. When Jesus spoke of being rich in that verse He obviously was not referring to being rich in physical wealth. He was speaking being Spiritually rich, in which case He was indeed perfectly logical.

I suspect your objection to God's being logical is precisely why you are so wrong about so much of God's teaching.

No, Jesus was speaking about material wealth. There is no other way to understand giving all you sell to the poor.

My, you grasp for straws to avoid saying I was right.
Hypocrite.