The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil

[armylngst]

did you not read? the covenant is with Abraham and his "SEED", and not seeds. as in many, listen, Genesis 17:7 "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee." the seed is Christ, and Christ is not Jewish.

I can read. It says and thy seed after thee in their generations. Generations here is plural because God is speaking of Abraham's descendants. Seed can be singular or plural, so the word their generations being plural, makes seed plural here. What you are looking for is Genesis 22, the promise God made to Abraham for his faith. In that verse, there is no modification of the word seed, and Hebrews says that is because it is singular and speaking of Jesus. And in your seed, all the nations of the Earth shall be blessed. This is where the idea of salvation by faith in Christ comes from. By faith we become descendants of Abraham through Isaac. That is spiritual, not physical descendants. We benefit from the covenant, but we don't have a covenant. That is why Paul and Peter fought so hard against the Judaizers.

ERROR on your part. A. the church is neither Jew nor gentile. and B. no, the Jews are not the chosen people of God only. NOW THINK, another word for chosen is "ELECT" so only Jews are the elect? no. my God people are you reading your bibles.

They are. Or the prophecy that says that God will call those who are not His people, His people is meaningless. You are making the same error as Jeremiah5. There is no requirement to follow the law or the covenant to be saved, for salvation is by faith. Israel is God's chosen people. Why? It is through God's chosen people that God sent His Son to Earth. As God has said more than once in scripture, being part of this group of people does not equate to salvation. It just means that they are the ones who received and hold the oracles of God, and if they had not violated the covenant, but obeyed, they would have been missionaries to the world. They were supposed to be His people, and they were supposed to take the oracles God had given them, and share/teach them to the world.

did you hear what you said? "This distinction Gentiles/Jews, the church/the nation of Israel, will continue until God completes His reconciliation with His children. (the elect)." well, who do you think the elect are? Oh my God.

And, I thought it would be clear, I said more than once that I speak outside of the church, so please, don't lie about what I said. The church and the nation of Israel are distinct. The church, made up of the elect of God, Gentile and Jew, and the secular nation of Israel made up of non-believing Jews who rejected not only Christ, but God Himself, and the elect of Israel, the remnant, who are not yet saved, who did not reject God, just Jesus because they did not recognize Him. They will recognize Him in the future, which is clear in Zechariah. When I speak of Gentiles/Jews here, I mean those outside of the church, and on an individual basis. The group basis can be Gentiles, but mostly the church (group) and the nation of Israel (group). Why do I make this distinction? Because Paul says in Romans that God has partially blinded and hardened the nation of Israel. Why partial? That is where the individual comes in. Jews are being saved today, even though Israel is partially blinded and hardened. It means the nation as a whole, the group of Jews, will not turn to God, however, individuals can and will.

Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:" (HOUSE and not TRIBE).

That is not even pulling hairs. The house of Israel contained 10 tribes, while the house of Judah contained 2. The house of Israel had been completely removed back in the Old Testament, spread throughout the world, while only the house of Judah remained intact. Also notice that these covenants are solely with the 10 tribes of Israel and 2 tribes of Judah, here recognized by the term house of. You would have to go back to King David and the history to see how even the Israelites/Jews understood the term house of.

Jeremiah 31:32 "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:" Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." Jeremiah 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." Jeremiah 31:35 "Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:"

Yes, and this He made with the Jews/Israelites. It is not for the Gentiles. If you read prophecy, you will note that it is the Gentiles grabbing onto the cloaks of Jews begging them to teach them about God. (I believe that this may be more related to the millennial kingdom.)

LISTEN CAREFULLY, Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." ..... Hebrews 9:15 "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance." A. a testament is a covenant. B. those who are called are the elect. My God how Hard is it?

The first testament is the first covenant, the one made solely with Israel. "he is the mediator of the new testament...for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament..." Who were under the first testament/covenant? The Israelites/Jews. Again this is speaking to the Jews/Israel. The Gentiles are saved by faith. The Israelites are saved by faith, but they are partakers in the Abrahamic covenant. We are only beneficiaries, not a part of it. We reap the blessings that are Israel's. Hence through Abraham's seed, the nations of the world are blessed.

did not God say that he would ... "ESTABLISH" his COVENANT with Abraham SEED? understand, he God ... "Made" a covenant with Abraham and his seed in their generation, (Genesis 17:7 "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee." ), God "ESTABLISH" his COVENANT with Abraham "SEED", which is Christ. now armylngst is Christ Jewish? no.

Again, that is to the Jews. Seed here is plural because it is modified by "in their generations"... clearly plural. The thing to consider however, is the term covenant of grace. Jesus did die, and blood was shed, and that is a requirement for forming a covenant. However, it may have been the new covenant with Israel, of which Gentiles also reap blessings.

understand, 101G see your ERROR, making a covenant is one thing, but "ESTABLISHING" that covenant is another. this is where you and jeremiah1five make your mistake at. KNOW the difference between in MAKING a Covenant, and in ESTABLISHING a Covenant.

101G.

I in no way believe that Gentiles do not have a place before God. (The elect of...) I just don't buy Jeremiah5's insistence that Gentiles must proselitize, becomes Jews (in that way), and follow the law/covenant in order to be saved. Paul spoke out against that soundly.

 

[jeremiah1five]

How many times have I told you that that doesn't matter. What did God tell Abraham? He promised Abraham that in His seed, which the author of Hebrews said is Jesus Christ, the nations of the WORLD would be blessed. Why do you make God a liar? The nations of the world benefit from the obedience Abraham showed before God. They are blessed by the faith Abraham showed, when they come to Christ in faith. There is no mention of any covenant in any of that, but you REFUSE to recognize that.

The Law is the standard by which sin exists. If the Gentiles are not covered by it, then Gentiles, by definition, cannot sin. If they are covered by it, then they can sin, because the Law points out their sin. However, the Law I speak about here is the 10 commandments. While given to the Jews, I believe God holds the whole world responsible and accountable. Hence we can sin. The civic laws, and ritual laws do not cover the Gentiles, nor do they sentence people to death. They make people unclean, and in a way, considering diseases carried by dead animals and other such things, they really are unclean. There is nothing in the 10 commandments that state that this is for the Jews only. It is not there. Perhaps an 11th commandment?

So you put Jesus UNDER the Law, even though Jesus is God. I got it. And, apparently you have no clue what Jesus meant when He said that He came to fulfill the Law and not to abolish it. To abolish it is to absolve everyone of sin without doing anything. If there is no law, if there is no standard, then there is no sin. Jesus did not come to do that. He came to fulfill the Law. So, what does that mean? If you break the law, what does it take to fulfill it? Better worded, if you break the law, what is the sentence given to fulfill the law? Death. So the fulfillment of the Law is death. Why? For all have sinned. That is, for all have broken God's commandments. So the penalty that fulfills God's Law and God's justice is death. For without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin. Without... death. Jesus fulfilled the Law for all who would believe by dying in their place. He took their penalty, which is death, upon Himself. So, He didn't abolish the Law by removing all responsibility and accountability, wiping the slate clean. He fulfilled the Law by dying in the place of His elect. He took their penalty, and paid it in His death on the cross. If you still don't get it, you are beyond hope.

God saves through covenant. The Mosaic Covenant had a mechanism for Israel's salvation and atonement of their sins. It's called Substitutionary Sacrifice. God commanded it and Israel obey it. THAT'S WHY an animal was sacrificed for their sins. It was promised and it was prophesied. The New Covenant doesn't come with a mechanism to atone for sins. This is why Jesus came to FULFILL the Law. The New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah was only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ.

Knowing that Gentiles were never part of the Mosaic Covenant or the Abraham Covenant, neither are Gentiles part of the New Covenant. Jeremiah says that covenant is between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah = Twelve Tribes.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Of course you do. They tell you just how little you learned from those prophets of Israel.

The prophets of Israel and their words are preserved by Israel. God commanded them to write their words down for Israel's posterity. God never commanded that letters to specific people were to be used four hundred years later and made into a book. That is an act committed by Gentiles. They did that for at least two reasons and the second reason was to validate their new religion. God doesn't need a new religion when He still committed Israel to His Law(s.)

 

[jeremiah1five]

see post above, #57

101G.

Nope. Not gunna do it.