The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil

[jeremiah1five]

Not true, but I can add that at least I know the history between God and the Hebrew people.
Stop with the red herring. The above means nothing in the supreme view of the eternal plan of God.

The eternal plan of God includes Israel's conquest and exile by Assyria and Babylon. It also includes Israel's destruction by the Romans and their murder by Nazi Germany.

Can it be true that you truly don't understand who and what Paul wrote Ephesians for? Did you even bother reading it? It was written to the church which was made up of non-Hebrew Gentiles, and hellenistic Jews. There was no synagogue in Ephesus, and there has been no evidence found that there ever was a synagogue in Ephesus. Part of Ephesians is written because the tension between the non-Hebrew Gentiles and the hellenistic Jews as pretty bad. Paul is telling them that they are one in the body of Christ. He even reminds the Gentiles (the verses I posted, which you only mention a few since if you mentioned them all it would sink your argument) who they were before they came to Christ in faith.

That is why you err. You don't understand that the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation was written by Jews to and for other Jews and Jewish Christians. There was a synagogue wherever God scattered His people throughout the Roman Empire and outside of it. Jews called mixed-race Jews Samaritan and not Jew the same as Jews called mixed-race Jews "Gentile" who remained in Gentile lands and grew up as Gentile through 722 years since the Assyrian Conquest that year. This is why James and Peter both write to the "twelve tribes scattered" and the "strangers" scattered "throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia." And if there were Jews in Galatia, then there were Jews in Ephesus, and Corinth, and Philippi, etc.
The "tension" you mentioned was between Jews and mixed-race Jews, not between Jews and Gentile. God never made any covenant with Gentiles nor did He ever promise His Spirit to Gentiles.
So, here's your homework:
1. Post Scripture of God making covenant with Gentiles in the Old Testament.
2. Post Scripture of God promising His Spirit to Gentiles from the Old Testament.

Do that and I'll cede the argument in your favor.

So Paul is telling the Gentiles to remember who they were in time past as Gentiles in the flesh. So before salvation, before Christ. Paul makes fun of the Jews here with "by that which is CALLED the circumcision in the flesh made by hands." A good linguist will tell you that Paul is being sarcastic. It's that so-called circumcision. Basically Paul is stating that the circumcision doesn't mean anything in the end.

So, God's command to circumcise means nothing? I find that hostile to the Word of God. Saul is making contrast between circumcision of the flesh and the heart. There is nothing here to laugh at.

Obviously the Gentiles were without Christ. They were ALIENATED/EXCLUDED fromt he commonwealth of Israel (well, no duh, they are Gentiles). The word for aliens here is (transliterated) apallotrioo, which does not mean "aliens". I'm not sure why the translators of the King James screwed up so bad. It is easy to point out because it only shows up in like 3 verses including the one above. So here is how it is translated in other verses:
Ephesians 4 "18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;
Notice how aliens does not fit here at all. Why? Because the meaning of the word is alienated/excluded.
Colosians 1 "21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,"

That's the effect of living in Gentile lands as Gentiles heavily influenced by Greek culture. They were "Hellenized."

So for your whole comment, you don't even understand what it is saying. What about strangers? The word is Xenos, which means foreign, a foreigner, guest.

Do you know what afar off meant in Ephesians 2:13. According to the linguists, the meaning given the greek word is that they were heathen. So FAR away from what the Jews are/were. Jews are not heathens. Gentiles, now Gentiles are heathens. As for Peter "415 (387)) those that are afar off, the inhabitants of remote regions, i. e. the Gentiles, Acts 2:39, cf. Isaiah 2:2ff; Zechariah 6:15."
Isaiah 2:2 "2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it."
Zechariah 6:15 "15 And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the Lord, and ye shall know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God."

You don't make room for mixed heritage Jews.

This is the Old testament. Read Ephesians again. The mystery was not revealed until "now" as Paul says. What is that mystery? Gentiles and Jews in the body of Christ, the church. Part of God's eternal plan in Christ. It extends way beyond the Old testament, from before the Old Testament. Before the covenant. Before all of that. All the way back to the promise made to Eve, and then even before that.

The "mystery" is "Christ in you."

And...THAT DOESN'T MATTER. You are so far from the truth, it is blatantly obvious to one even as myself. You haven't spoken the truth about me once. You don't know what I believe, yet you come right out as though you are the subject matter expert on me. You go and say that I believe as you once did, yet everything you say is not something that I believe. It's amazing how deluded you are.

You like to make it appear Paul is saying what you want him to say by leaving out what he says.
"
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Paul is not speaking of Gentiles at all but unbelievers. Infidel here is one who does not believe. "ἄπιστος" " that believeth not, faithless, incredible thing, infidel, unbeliever(-ing)"

Are you Muslim? No, this makes you and infidel.
Are you Hebrew?
No? This makes you an infidel.
You don't take into account mixed heritage Jews. It's Jew and Gentile with you completely excluding mixed-race Jews.

It is actually saying, or what part hath he that believeth with one who believeth not. I am beginning to see how little faith you have in scripture. And, how you don't have a linguist at all.
You know. I am just going to leave you with God.
Except they didn't. And Jesus had no problem with the Samaritans, and even went to them and spoke to them as though they were simply Jews.
That simply makes them racists.
Apparently you don't know. They were sojourners, aliens, pilgrims.

Not at all. Two completely different words. Xenos in Ephesians and παρεπιδήμοις in I Peter. The difference is blatant. Your really do need a good linguist. "3927 parepídēmos – a sojourner (foreigner) – literally, someone "passing through" but still with personal relationship with the people in that locale" It should be clear that this is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from who Saul was talking about in Ephesians. I mean, reading what you say is making me physically and spiritually ill. You are twisting scripture so bad. I mean, you have already told me that God lied, and that He did not do what He told us He did. For Paul, it is saying that they are foreigners. That is they are completely outside of the covenant, which of course they are. They are Gentiles. Peter is saying that believers are just passing through. This is not their home. It isn't. Heaven is home.

Sorry, but your world of make believe is not the same as the rest of us live in. You have lied to yourself.

Tell me you haven't read and understood Ephesians without telling me you haven't read and understood Ephesians. What did Paul say. WHAT DID GOD SAY THROUGH PAUL???

"8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Paul is saying this about the mission he says God has given him as a missionary to the non-Hebrew Gentiles, as you see in verse 8. He isn't saying this to the hellenistic Jews. The hellenistic Jews were circumcised. Paul is speaking to the uncircumcised, to, again, the non-Hebrew Gentiles.

So, I will simply end this conversation as it should be ended. You are a heretic. There is no simpler way to put it. You teach universalism (even if it is just every Hebrew that ever lived) which is a heresy. You have more than once simply stated that God lied. You have more than once simply stated that Jesus lied. I mean, how can that not result in an indictment of heresy?

It doesn't matter. You have decided to leave your fate to the Law, and Paul said that to do that is to resign oneself to damnation. If you live under the law, you are damned under the law. We are to live to Christ, who fulfilled the Law where we cannot. You have twisted and butchered the word of God to fit your beliefs.

Saul was arguing against trying to fulfill and obey the Law as a means of salvation. But after salvation the Law becomes much more important to a believer.

 

[armylngst]

The only people Scripture calls "adopted" are the Hebrew people. Christ is a Jewish Messiah, not a Gentile one. There are no Gentile Messiah's except the one's born of man without God. Obama was called a "Messiah." Look how that turned out.

Actually, Paul doesn't talk about who other then the word US, which is for apostles, and then he extended it to believers as a whole. You have thrown out a lot of the Bible. I'll write a message that gives a better overview of how it works.

A very good example using Saul. He wasn't looking to have faith in Christ. Jesus met him on the road as the Lord came calling, not the other way around. Besides this, there was no discussion about "faith" in Saul's conversion. Being Hebrew was all that was needed for him to come to know His Lord and King.

No, he wasn't looking for faith. In fact, he wasn't looking for salvation, because he thought he was good under the law, and under the covenant. God told him that he was wrong. Saul even presented this when explaining to Gentiles that he too was Jewish, which is why he believes/knows God has not rejected his people. How does Paul know. God saved him by faith. What did Paul say in Ephesians? "For by grace you have been saved through faith..." If you were right, this would actually say "For by under the covenant have you been saved by the Law, and that not of yourself..." It doesn't say that. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ is what Paul HIMSELF said is necessary for salvation, and he was speaking from personal experience. I'm sure you just missed that part when reading. Happens to the best of us.

From the beginning God has always had a people in relationship with Him. The term "calling upon the LORD" doesn't mean what it seems to be interpreted as in English. It means "worship" and the only people that can worship God are those ALREADY in relationship with Him. As David said, "Blessed is the man whom thou choosest,
And causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: We shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, Even of thy holy temple" (Psalm 65:4.)

I believe that "calling upon the LORD" is entreating the LORD. Anyone can entreat the Lord. Now as to if He will incline an ear, that is all on God and what God wills. Also, I find nothing to disagree with in that verse. However, do notice that David gives no barrier to whom might be chosen.

That is a salvation of the LORD because if God is not calling then NOBODY comes. And those He calls are those who He wrote their names in the book of life of the Lamb. This means the Hebrew people. ONLY.

The book of life was recorded before the foundation of the world. Now, I understand your intense desire to send Noah to hell. I mean, who wouldn't want to see God send the one righteous man to hell simply because, well, you aren't Hebrew enough. In fact, you aren't Hebrew at all. Get thee to hell. Sounds about right. You aren't fatalist in the least. Rahab is with him, as well as Ruth. They aren't Hebrew. In fact, Ruth was a Moabitess ***GASP!!!*** We all know what God thinks of Moab.

If one is in covenant to be saved "faith" is not required for God will make everyone who is to be saved willing on the day of their salvation. Take a look at the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 12, 15, and 17. Faith is not mentioned as a requirement but circumcision is. The same with the Mosaic Covenant. There is no "faith" required in this covenant either. Only obedience. But then the sin of disobedience and of not being circumcised is not a bar to salvation either. Those sins are covered in the blood because unless God saves, then no man will be saved.

They were not in covenant to be saved. I have no idea where you are getting this aberrant idea from. They were in covenant to be the chosen people of God. If they were in a covenant to be saved that automatically saves them, there is absolutely no need for a Law. And Paul called out circumcision in Ephesians as not necessary. And, you say that not being circumcised is not a bar to salvation:
Genesis 17:"14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant."
So nope. God is clear here.

When Jesus died He actually saved someone. He didn't make salvation "possible" for someone later on to believe and be saved because "faith" is not included in salvation. It comes WITH salvation. Dead men don't have faith. Jesus had to call Lazarus out of his grave. Lazarus didn't have any faith to come to Jesus on His own. He first had to be made alive and along with the command to "Come forth!" then he obeyed further to walk out still bound with graveclothes and with feet and hands still bound. A perfect example of salvation if there ever was one. So, all this garbage of an "altar call" or anything men must do to prepare for salvation is only the Gentile religion you belong to. Everyone in the Bible that had positive relation with God was saved or became saved by the will of God for He is the One who must make the first move towards men or NONE will be saved. And don't be surprised to see Judas there or Nebuchadnezzar from your vantage point on the other side of the gulf that is fixed between you and them.

You have completely mangled the gospel, and how things work. In the plan of God, God already knew everyone who would be saved, Greek, Jew, and Gentile (non-Hebrew type) before He ever said "Let there be light". However, no one is saved temporally, until they are saved. We have to live it. Deadm men don't have faith. But then regeneration comes along, and they are no longer dead, and they are saved. What did God say to us through paul about salvation. For God had ordained that by the foolishness of preaching, man would come to salvation. I Corinthians 1 "21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

Citing a person must have faith before they can be saved is unbiblical. Faith is a gift given by God to the person to be saved. It is not a prerequisite to salvation. It is a result of salvation.

Incorrect, but understandable when one doesn't have a good linguist. Faith is not the gift of God. SALVATION is the gift of God. The grammer of Ephesians 2:8-9 rules out faith being the gift. However, we are saved by faith. It doesn't so much precede salvation but is what saves us. God regenerates us (in Paul's case that is when he was stopped by the light and knocked to the ground, and God gave Him a wakeup call. Look at his "come to Jesus moment" again:
"4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do."

Jesus woke Saul up. Regenerated Him. Paul understood in His very soul exactly who Jesus was after Jesus answered. He surrendered then, and believed everything that Jesus was saying. His resistance to Jesus and Christianity instantly dissolved the moment Jesus spoke to Saul's soul and told Saul exactly who he was persecuting. It was truly a come to Jesus moment. The best way I can put it is "what has been seen, cannot be unseen". Jesus had irreversibly destroyed Saul. That is why I like to put how Paul changed his name as, after Saul met Jesus, only Paul survived. He left his old life behind. And as a missionary to the Gentiles, he chose to go with the Gentile for of his name, which is Paul. You do him a great disservice, considering his life of service and martyrdom, by denying him that. This is the name he used in his writings.

God's grace saves us by faith. So the grace and faith are all prior to salvation in that they are what bring salvation about. The word is preached. We hear the word. The Holy Spirit regenerates our spirit and we, now spiritual men and no longer natural man who cannot understand the things of God, respond in faith and belief. Belief and faith are interconnected. "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." Why do you deny this so adamantly. The Bible is inspired, which means that God had Paul say this to that guard, and had him relay that to Luke who wrote it down.

No one is saved in this temporal world until they have their come to Jesus moment, and God saves them. That is an abstraction. God calls, the Holy Spirit moves, we react and are saved. React. What was Paul's reaction? He was trembling and was astonished. The truth of who Paul was, was such that Paul was literally trembling and was astonished. Shaken awake. At once completely aware of the condition he was actually in. He was, as one who believed was doing the Lord's work in persecuting the church, actually attacking God. He was attacking Jesus by attacking His people. (Jesus is God, so that is not an incorrect assertion.) He just heard from Jesus/God HIMSELF that his life is a lie.

We are saved by faith in Christ. That is the bottom line. However, something you seem to have an issue with understanding, that is what WE see. That is what is happening. However, there is that which we cannot see. That is the work of the Holy Spirit, which is God intervening in our lives in accordance with what Jesus said. With man, it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. And, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians, preaching is involved. More distilled, God has it that we hear the gospel, and then, according to God's will and calling, we respond.

 

[armylngst]

The eternal plan of God includes Israel's conquest and exile by Assyria and Babylon. It also includes Israel's destruction by the Romans and their murder by Nazi Germany.

I fail to see what that has to do with our discussion. God's eternal plan includes everything to include the salvation of non-Hebrew Gentiles following Peter's visit to Cornelius and the savlation of the non-Hebrew Gentiles there.

That is why you err. You don't understand that the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation was written by Jews to and for other Jews and Jewish Christians.

Ephesians was written to both Hellenistic Jews, and non-Hebrew Gentiles. So you are wrong. Some of Paul's other letters also included non-Hebrew Gentiles in the audience. Hebrews is one of the few books in the Old Testament written specifically to the Hebrews to argue with them for salvation in Christ, with Christ being superior to the covenant and all the sacrifices. Again, if Jews are automatically saved, why was the book ever written?

There was a synagogue wherever God scattered His people throughout the Roman Empire and outside of it.

Again, there was no a synagogue in Ephesus. There were two people groups there. Hellenistic Jews and non-Jewish Gentiles. There is no evidence present that shows there was ever a synagogue there. There was a church.

Jews called mixed-race Jews Samaritan and not Jew the same as Jews called mixed-race Jews "Gentile" who remained in Gentile lands and grew up as Gentile through 722 years since the Assyrian Conquest that year.

Little proof of that seen in Acts, where there are three people groups mentioned. Jews, Greeks and Gentiles. And the Greeks and Gentiles are not used interchangeably. And the linguists say Greek and Gentile are used especially of non-Hebrew people.

This is why James and Peter both write to the "twelve tribes scattered" and the "strangers" scattered "throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia." And if there were Jews in Galatia, then there were Jews in Ephesus, and Corinth, and Philippi, etc.
The "tension" you mentioned was between Jews and mixed-race Jews, not between Jews and Gentile. God never made any covenant with Gentiles nor did He ever promise His Spirit to Gentiles.

This is where you are wrong. This is where you deny God's eternal plan that extends beyond race, beyond creed, beyond nation. It started with God's promise to Eve. It wasn't a promise to Abraham, or to a Hebrew or Jew. One of Eve's seed would defeat the evil one and sin. It even included an allusion to Jesus' death. He will crush his head, he will strike his heel. Striking the heel is a glancing blow, crushed head is complete death/destruction.

So, here's your homework:
1. Post Scripture of God making covenant with Gentiles in the Old Testament.

No need, but for some reason you just can't get it. Is it the heresy, or your own pride?

2. Post Scripture of God promising His Spirit to Gentiles from the Old Testament.

No need. Paul already explained it, as did Peter.

Do that and I'll cede the argument in your favor.

I am not looking to win some argument. That isn't what this is about.

So, God's command to circumcise means nothing? I find that hostile to the Word of God. Saul is making contrast between circumcision of the flesh and the heart. There is nothing here to laugh at.

It doesn't mean anything for salvation. Since you seem to have completely forgotten about salvation, you just don't understand. I also fail to see what open heart surgery has to do with the covenant. They don't rip people's chest open to cut parts off the heart. You do understand that Paul is talking about the spiritual aspect of salvation which is faith. Faith/belief in Christ/God equals circumcision of the heart.

That's the effect of living in Gentile lands as Gentiles heavily influenced by Greek culture. They were "Hellenized."

Yes, but they remained Jews inwardly, and by circumcision. (The came up with a process by which they could hide it though.)

You don't make room for mixed heritage Jews.

That's because, as Jesus considered Samaritans full blown Jews, it would be the same for the rest of the mixed race Jews. They are still considered Jews. Which is why I said that the full Jews were racists. Paul described the Gentiles in Ephesians, and there was quite a bit that would NEVER be said of a Jew, or a mixed race Jew. Excluded from the covenant? Does that sound like a Jew. (Remember, the actual translation of the word translated as aliens in the KJV is actually alienated/excluded, and I showed you that that is how it is translated in all the other passages the word is used in. There is another word that is translated as aliens.

The "mystery" is "Christ in you."

The mystery is the church made up of both non-Jewish Gentiles (something you do not see explicitly mentioned in the Old Testament, as you clearly point out), and Jews. The dividing wall, the emnity, the hatred between the two having been destroyed on the cross in Christ's body. Jesus came to the Jews, however, He sent His disciples to the WHOLE WORLD. That is why the gospel is first to the Jew, then to the Gentile/Greek. We are not above the Jews, but below, however, in Christ we are equal. Salvation is the equalizer. That has NOTHING to do with the covenant God made wtih Israel. Again, we are BLESSED in Abraham's seed. That blessing is such that it spills over to the rest of the world. First the Jew, then the Gentile.

Are you Muslim? No, this makes you and infidel.
Are you Hebrew?
No? This makes you an infidel.
You don't take into account mixed heritage Jews. It's Jew and Gentile with you completely excluding mixed-race Jews.

Again, you apparently don't know what words mean. Infidel means a non-believer. So if you are a non-believer, you are an infidel. There are a lot of infidel Jews out there, who will not always be infidels. Paul's audience was Jews, so he was speaking of them. Except he was simply making comparisons, so no need to even respond to that. Simply comparisons. BTW, if you are wrong, if I am a believer with the Holy Spirit, would that not mean that you technically blasphemed the Holy Spirit in your past post? Wouldn't you want to be sure before doing something Jesus says will never be forgiven? I am only saying this so you consider everything you write... carefully, as I try.

Saul was arguing against trying to fulfill and obey the Law as a means of salvation. But after salvation the Law becomes much more important to a believer.

Nope. Nothing ever becomes more important that Jesus. Sorry, you are wrong. Jesus fulfilled the Law because we could not, freeing us from its chains. Salvation is by faith. This is the reason why we get fruit of the spirits, faith without works is dead, etc. If you are truly a believer, your actions will betray you. You will act like it, no matter the situation. (However, one may stumble as one works to become more like Christ. (Sanctification.))

 

[jeremiah1five]

I fail to see what that has to do with our discussion. God's eternal plan includes everything to include the salvation of non-Hebrew Gentiles following Peter's visit to Cornelius and the savlation of the non-Hebrew Gentiles there.

Cornelius was half-Jew, half-Gentile. As long as he was the seed of Abraham he is heir to his promises.
The New Testament is not supposed to contradict the Old Testament. But that's what you and others - millions of others - believe which you should know that if something in the New Testament cannot be found in the Old Testament then it should be rejected. But you don't apply this truthful standard to your Gentile theology. There is no covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Old Testament. If there was there would be Scripture declaring this and we'd have the name of this Gentile just as we have the name of Abraham and Moses. But there is none. There is NO COVENANT IN THE OLD TESTAMENT BETWEEN GOD AND NON-HEBREW GENTILES.
That theology is a false teaching phenomenon that has no Biblical support.

In the Old Testament we find the Abrahamic Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, and the New Covenant (in Jesus' blood sacrifice.) But there is NO COVENANT in the Old Testament between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. DO YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THIS FACT?

The totality of the Old Testament of Law,(Pentateuch), the Psalms, and the Prophets is thirty-nine "books."
But there is no covenant in the Law, the Psalms, or the Prophets evidencing a covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. How do you account for that?

The New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah to the two southern kingdom tribes of Judah and Benjamin states the New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:31.

And yet the New Covenant prophesy by Jeremiah does NOT include non-Hebrew Gentiles. And if the New Testament is interpreted that without a salvation covenant - like the Mosaic and New Covenants - non-Hebrew Gentiles are included in the New Covenant you have to show me where in Jeremiah 31:31-34 WHERE ARE NON-HEBREW GENTILES NAMED OR MENTIONED AS INCLUDED IN THE NEW COVENANT SPOKEN AND WRITTEN BY JEREMIAH?

WHERE????

Nowhere. Because God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. And if there is nothing addressed in the Old Testament then you cannot make things up to add to the Bible as you do in saying non-Hebrew Gentiles are saved alongside Israel or even without Israel. WHY do you ignore this important standard and principle? Anyone who adds to God's Word sins against the God of the Bible and the Creator of the universe is a LIAR!

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.

God says you are a liar plain and simple.

Ephesians was written to both Hellenistic Jews, and non-Hebrew Gentiles. So you are wrong. Some of Paul's other letters also included non-Hebrew Gentiles in the audience. Hebrews is one of the few books in the Old Testament written specifically to the Hebrews to argue with them for salvation in Christ, with Christ being superior to the covenant and all the sacrifices. Again, if Jews are automatically saved, why was the book ever written?

The "other flock" Jesus mentioned in John 10 refers to mixed-race Hebrews. Non-Hebrews are NOT Sheep. They are "dogs" and "swine" and uncircumcised, non-covenant idol-worshipers.

Again, there was no a synagogue in Ephesus. There were two people groups there. Hellenistic Jews and non-Jewish Gentiles. There is no evidence present that shows there was ever a synagogue there. There was a church.

There were synagogues wherever Jews lived in the Roman Empire and beyond. Wherever God scattered His people was a synagogue. Saul went first to the synagogues in whatever city or town he visited because there were Jewish Christians in that city or town.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Acts 2:5.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. Acts 2:7–11.

"Asia" is mentioned, in the context of Acts, "Asia" generally refers to the Roman province of Asia (western Asia Minor), in which Ephesus was the most prominent city.

Hello???

Little proof of that seen in Acts, where there are three people groups mentioned. Jews, Greeks and Gentiles. And the Greeks and Gentiles are not used interchangeably. And the linguists say Greek and Gentile are used especially of non-Hebrew people.

Greeks and Gentiles are NOT the same. "Greeks" is the word "hellenized" or "Hellens" and it refers to Jews who grew up under Greek culture.

This is where you are wrong. This is where you deny God's eternal plan that extends beyond race, beyond creed, beyond nation. It started with God's promise to Eve. It wasn't a promise to Abraham, or to a Hebrew or Jew. One of Eve's seed would defeat the evil one and sin. It even included an allusion to Jesus' death. He will crush his head, he will strike his heel. Striking the heel is a glancing blow, crushed head is complete death/destruction.
No need, but for some reason you just can't get it. Is it the heresy, or your own pride?
No need. Paul already explained it, as did Peter.
I am not looking to win some argument. That isn't what this is about.

If something cannot be found in the Old Testament while searching the New Testament then you cannot add to the Bible. There is NO COVENANT BETWEEN GOD AND NON-HEBREW GENTILES IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. Therefore, you are adding to the Bible. Especially with such a grand thing that Gentiles are in the Hebrew covenants, BUT THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THIS. YOU are ADDING to the BIBLE!

It doesn't mean anything for salvation. Since you seem to have completely forgotten about salvation, you just don't understand. I also fail to see what open heart surgery has to do with the covenant. They don't rip people's chest open to cut parts off the heart. You do understand that Paul is talking about the spiritual aspect of salvation which is faith. Faith/belief in Christ/God equals circumcision of the heart.

Saul says "faith" is a gift of God. In other words, God delivers you from bondage to sin, gives you faith and the only other place to go is to God.

Yes, but they remained Jews inwardly, and by circumcision. (The came up with a process by which they could hide it though.)

That's because, as Jesus considered Samaritans full blown Jews, it would be the same for the rest of the mixed race Jews. They are still considered Jews. Which is why I said that the full Jews were racists. Paul described the Gentiles in Ephesians, and there was quite a bit that would NEVER be said of a Jew, or a mixed race Jew. Excluded from the covenant? Does that sound like a Jew. (Remember, the actual translation of the word translated as aliens in the KJV is actually alienated/excluded, and I showed you that that is how it is translated in all the other passages the word is used in. There is another word that is translated as aliens.

Jesus didn't consider them as "full-blown Jews." He saw them as they were and they were mixed-race Jews.

The mystery is the church made up of both non-Jewish Gentiles (something you do not see explicitly mentioned in the Old Testament, as you clearly point out), and Jews. The dividing wall, the emnity, the hatred between the two having been destroyed on the cross in Christ's body. Jesus came to the Jews, however, He sent His disciples to the WHOLE WORLD. That is why the gospel is first to the Jew, then to the Gentile/Greek. We are not above the Jews, but below, however, in Christ we are equal. Salvation is the equalizer. That has NOTHING to do with the covenant God made wtih Israel. Again, we are BLESSED in Abraham's seed. That blessing is such that it spills over to the rest of the world. First the Jew, then the Gentile.

You add to the Bible things not mentioned. God made NO COVENANT with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
If He did then post the SCRIPTURE AND TELL ME THE NAME OF THIS Gentile is.
That's all I ask you to do.

Again, you apparently don't know what words mean. Infidel means a non-believer. So if you are a non-believer, you are an infidel. There are a lot of infidel Jews out there, who will not always be infidels. Paul's audience was Jews, so he was speaking of them. Except he was simply making comparisons, so no need to even respond to that. Simply comparisons. BTW, if you are wrong, if I am a believer with the Holy Spirit, would that not mean that you technically blasphemed the Holy Spirit in your past post? Wouldn't you want to be sure before doing something Jesus says will never be forgiven? I am only saying this so you consider everything you write... carefully, as I try.

You can't interpret words from the Bible using 21st century western world culture definitions. You have to interpret these words in the culture in which it is defined. That's 2000 years ago and in a middle-eastern Arab and Nomad culture.

Nope. Nothing ever becomes more important that Jesus. Sorry, you are wrong. Jesus fulfilled the Law because we could not, freeing us from its chains. Salvation is by faith. This is the reason why we get fruit of the spirits, faith without works is dead, etc. If you are truly a believer, your actions will betray you. You will act like it, no matter the situation. (However, one may stumble as one works to become more like Christ. (Sanctification.))

Faith is a gift. Faith is Christ Personified. He invades a life, breaks the bondage to sin, and it is by HIS FAITH by which we or anyone is saved;

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 2:16.

I don't know why I post Scripture. You only reject it for your own pet theories.

 

[armylngst]

Cornelius was half-Jew, half-Gentile. As long as he was the seed of Abraham he is heir to his promises.

The only proof you will find is that Cornelius was an Italian who had been deployed to Israel by the Romans to serve in the legion posted there. He isn't even Greek. He is a non-Hebrew Gentile who heard/learned of God and believed. He was one who feared God, which is never said of a Jew. Jews are the chosen people of God.

The New Testament is not supposed to contradict the Old Testament. But that's what you and others - millions of others - believe which you should know that if something in the New Testament cannot be found in the Old Testament then it should be rejected.

You keep betraying your ignorance of scripture. You ignore what Paul clearly stated about the mystery of God's eternal plan that remained hidden until NOW (when Paul was writing). God revealed His eternal plan to Peter when He sent Him to the non-Hebrew Gentiles at Cornelius house. God had to give Him a vision to say that it was okay for Peter, before God, to go to the house of a non-Hebrew Gentile. Consider Jesus reaction when He freely spoke to mixed race Hebrews. No issues. However, He did show issue with the Canaanite woman. He specifically stated that He came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Due to the way He treated mixed race Hebrews, apparently they were considered lost sheep of the house of Israel, and not Gentiles to Jesus. Only the Canaanite woman was considered a Gentile that was to be avoided. However, Jesus showed here a glimpse of what was to come. God's eternal plan was not revealed until after Jesus resurrection. Yet He still healed the Canaanite woman's daughter due to her faith.

Matthew 15 "Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt." Jesus Himself was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The GOSPEL is for the world. It started and went first to the Hebrews/Jews. Afterwards it went out to the world.

But you don't apply this truthful standard to your Gentile theology. There is no covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Old Testament. If there was there would be Scripture declaring this and we'd have the name of this Gentile just as we have the name of Abraham and Moses. But there is none. There is NO COVENANT IN THE OLD TESTAMENT BETWEEN GOD AND NON-HEBREW GENTILES.
That theology is a false teaching phenomenon that has no Biblical support.

Simple question. What part of, it doesn't matter that they aren't a part of the covenant do you not understand? IT DOESN'T MATTER. All you show is that you yourself do not understand. God was telling Abraham of the world wide gospel when He said that in His seed (Jesus) all the nations of the world will be blessed. The whole world would be blessed by Jesus. Now please tell me you understand that the covenant is not present anywhere in that statement. It is not. There is no attempt to say that means all the nations of the world are under the covenant. This is a PROMISE not a covenant, made to Abraham on the basis of the faith Abraham showed in offering his son Isaac to God as a sacrifice. Hence scripture speaks of salvation being by faith. Abraham is the archetype.

Now you say that only those under the Mosaic Covenant are saved. Why would you say that Abraham was not saved. Abraham was never under the Mosaic Covenant. Salvation was not promised to Abraham, but God credited his (Abraham's) faith as righteousness. Again, salvation is by faith.

In the Old Testament we find the Abrahamic Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, and the New Covenant (in Jesus' blood sacrifice.) But there is NO COVENANT in the Old Testament between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. DO YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THIS FACT?

We find that Abraham was not under the Mosaic Covenant which you say the Israelites are saved. If you read Abraham's covenant again, you will not find salvation mentioned. You have to cram it in there and add it to God's word, which you say is a sin. As I said above, Hebrews states that God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness. Where do you see any covenant mentioned in that one sentence? It isn't there.

The totality of the Old Testament of Law,(Pentateuch), the Psalms, and the Prophets is thirty-nine "books."
But there is no covenant in the Law, the Psalms, or the Prophets evidencing a covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. How do you account for that?

The New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah to the two southern kingdom tribes of Judah and Benjamin states the New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:31.

And yet the New Covenant prophesy by Jeremiah does NOT include non-Hebrew Gentiles. And if the New Testament is interpreted that without a salvation covenant - like the Mosaic and New Covenants - non-Hebrew Gentiles are included in the New Covenant you have to show me where in Jeremiah 31:31-34 WHERE ARE NON-HEBREW GENTILES NAMED OR MENTIONED AS INCLUDED IN THE NEW COVENANT SPOKEN AND WRITTEN BY JEREMIAH?

What does it matter? Salvation is not a matter of covenant, but a matter of faith. You should go back and read Paul over and over until that point gets through to your soul. Salvation is by faith.

WHERE????

Nowhere. Because God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. And if there is nothing addressed in the Old Testament then you cannot make things up to add to the Bible as you do in saying non-Hebrew Gentiles are saved alongside Israel or even without Israel. WHY do you ignore this important standard and principle? Anyone who adds to God's Word sins against the God of the Bible and the Creator of the universe is a LIAR!

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.

God says you are a liar plain and simple.

The "other flock" Jesus mentioned in John 10 refers to mixed-race Hebrews. Non-Hebrews are NOT Sheep. They are "dogs" and "swine" and uncircumcised, non-covenant idol-worshipers.

There were synagogues wherever Jews lived in the Roman Empire and beyond. Wherever God scattered His people was a synagogue. Saul went first to the synagogues in whatever city or town he visited because there were Jewish Christians in that city or town.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Acts 2:5.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. Acts 2:7–11.

"Asia" is mentioned, in the context of Acts, "Asia" generally refers to the Roman province of Asia (western Asia Minor), in which Ephesus was the most prominent city.

Hello???

Greeks and Gentiles are NOT the same. "Greeks" is the word "hellenized" or "Hellens" and it refers to Jews who grew up under Greek culture.

If something cannot be found in the Old Testament while searching the New Testament then you cannot add to the Bible. There is NO COVENANT BETWEEN GOD AND NON-HEBREW GENTILES IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. Therefore, you are adding to the Bible. Especially with such a grand thing that Gentiles are in the Hebrew covenants, BUT THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THIS. YOU are ADDING to the BIBLE!

Saul says "faith" is a gift of God. In other words, God delivers you from bondage to sin, gives you faith and the only other place to go is to God.

Jesus didn't consider them as "full-blown Jews." He saw them as they were and they were mixed-race Jews.

You add to the Bible things not mentioned. God made NO COVENANT with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
If He did then post the SCRIPTURE AND TELL ME THE NAME OF THIS Gentile is.
That's all I ask you to do.


You can't interpret words from the Bible using 21st century western world culture definitions. You have to interpret these words in the culture in which it is defined. That's 2000 years ago and in a middle-eastern Arab and Nomad culture.

Faith is a gift. Faith is Christ Personified. He invades a life, breaks the bondage to sin, and it is by HIS FAITH by which we or anyone is saved;

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 2:16.

I don't know why I post Scripture. You only reject it for your own pet theories.

I will make this simple for you. You say that all Israel including the religious leaders are saved. You say that the gentiles aren' tsheep because they are called dogs. Apparently you forget that there are only two animals when it coms to God and salvation. Sheep and goats. You also forget that the parable of the wheat and the chaff is to the... Hebrews. So some are damned, and the rest are not. Some are chaff, some are wheat. Some were planted by the evil one, the rest by the master. Yet they are all under the covenant. Obviously being under the covenant does not mean what you thnk it means.

What did Jesus Himself have to say about the Jews who sought to kill Him?
John 8: "44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

How dare Jesus tell someone under the covenant that they aren't children of God, but children of the devil, right? But doesn't God have the right to speak truth?

How about some context?
"31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

And the rest:
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

I think I have sufficiently made my point in saying that Jews who are part of the covenant are not guaranteed salvation, and this is from Jesus Himself. He made it clear what it takes to be saved to these Jews who believed being Abraham's descendants was enough. It is not enough.

You are wrong. I may be right. I say that because I am still learning myself. I too have to sift through all of this in accordance to who I am. If I am unstable, my study may not be stable. I may read into it, as you have. Jews and Gentiles are both children of God, or children of the devil. Both Jews and non-Jewish Gentiles are adopted children of God, however, the promised inheritance of Abraham is for the Jews. Our inheritance is in Christ. We will find out what that is when we meet Him. I just prefer to have/know Him. That in and of itself is more than I can handle. And again, I would like to, my number 2 request, to see God's glorious salvation of Israel. It consumes me at times. I would love to be there to see Paul's unfiltered reaction to his countrymen finally seeing/accepting the truth. While he was sent to the non-Hebrew Gentiles, His heart was set on his people to the point that he went to Jerusalem after all of God's warnings not to go. I am very certain God was absolutely NOT against Paul going, but made Paul's actions that much more poignant. His love for his people was so strong, he didn't even care that he would be in chains and would be killed. That is full blooded dedication to what one loves and desires, which for Paul, was to see his countrymen accept Christ by faith.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The only proof you will find is that Cornelius was an Italian who had been deployed to Israel by the Romans to serve in the legion posted there. He isn't even Greek. He is a non-Hebrew Gentile who heard/learned of God and believed. He was one who feared God, which is never said of a Jew. Jews are the chosen people of God.

The Roman army was a collection of Gentiles from those nations or tribes Rome conquered and the majority of the army of Rome was not Italian but a mix of those conquered peoples. Cornelius would have to be a mixed-race Hebrew and descendant of the twelve tribes. For approximately 29-35 generations of Jews were born and grew up as Gentile in these Gentile lands being scattered by God through the Assyrian Conquest of the ten northern kingdom tribes and their exile; and the Babylonian Conquest of the two northern kingdom tribes in 722 and 586 BC, respectively. Whether through rape, marriage, concubinage, or slavery, God used this scattering to infuse non-Hebrew Gentiles into the covenant but by being non-Hebrew and Gentile there is no record of God covenanting or promising Gentile anything. On the contrary, God's attitude toward the non-Hebrew Gentile nations is made clear in Isaiah's prophecies:

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

God is NOT double minded. It cannot be said of God that non-Hebrew Gentile (nations) are NOTHING and then later to save them by His Spirit. God NEVER promised His Spirit to anyone other that Israel as Joel's prophecy bears this truth out.

You keep betraying your ignorance of scripture. You ignore what Paul clearly stated about the mystery of God's eternal plan that remained hidden until NOW (when Paul was writing). God revealed His eternal plan to Peter when He sent Him to the non-Hebrew Gentiles at Cornelius house. God had to give Him a vision to say that it was okay for Peter, before God, to go to the house of a non-Hebrew Gentile. Consider Jesus reaction when He freely spoke to mixed race Hebrews. No issues. However, He did show issue with the Canaanite woman. He specifically stated that He came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Due to the way He treated mixed race Hebrews, apparently they were considered lost sheep of the house of Israel, and not Gentiles to Jesus. Only the Canaanite woman was considered a Gentile that was to be avoided. However, Jesus showed here a glimpse of what was to come. God's eternal plan was not revealed until after Jesus resurrection. Yet He still healed the Canaanite woman's daughter due to her faith.

Matthew 15 "Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt." Jesus Himself was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The GOSPEL is for the world. It started and went first to the Hebrews/Jews. Afterwards it went out to the world.

Simple question. What part of, it doesn't matter that they aren't a part of the covenant do you not understand? IT DOESN'T MATTER. All you show is that you yourself do not understand. God was telling Abraham of the world wide gospel when He said that in His seed (Jesus) all the nations of the world will be blessed. The whole world would be blessed by Jesus. Now please tell me you understand that the covenant is not present anywhere in that statement. It is not. There is no attempt to say that means all the nations of the world are under the covenant. This is a PROMISE not a covenant, made to Abraham on the basis of the faith Abraham showed in offering his son Isaac to God as a sacrifice. Hence scripture speaks of salvation being by faith. Abraham is the archetype.

Now you say that only those under the Mosaic Covenant are saved. Why would you say that Abraham was not saved. Abraham was never under the Mosaic Covenant. Salvation was not promised to Abraham, but God credited his (Abraham's) faith as righteousness. Again, salvation is by faith.

We find that Abraham was not under the Mosaic Covenant which you say the Israelites are saved. If you read Abraham's covenant again, you will not find salvation mentioned. You have to cram it in there and add it to God's word, which you say is a sin. As I said above, Hebrews states that God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness. Where do you see any covenant mentioned in that one sentence? It isn't there.

What does it matter? Salvation is not a matter of covenant, but a matter of faith. You should go back and read Paul over and over until that point gets through to your soul. Salvation is by faith.

I will make this simple for you. You say that all Israel including the religious leaders are saved. You say that the gentiles aren' tsheep because they are called dogs. Apparently you forget that there are only two animals when it coms to God and salvation. Sheep and goats. You also forget that the parable of the wheat and the chaff is to the... Hebrews. So some are damned, and the rest are not. Some are chaff, some are wheat. Some were planted by the evil one, the rest by the master. Yet they are all under the covenant. Obviously being under the covenant does not mean what you thnk it means.

What did Jesus Himself have to say about the Jews who sought to kill Him?
John 8: "44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

How dare Jesus tell someone under the covenant that they aren't children of God, but children of the devil, right? But doesn't God have the right to speak truth?

God is recorded many times in the Old Testament of calling Israel to her sins. But Jesus did not call Judas nothing except being a liar (traducer is the Greek word translated "devil" in this passage.) Traducer means "liar." Jesus says this very thing:

"When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Judas was called a "liar" by Judas.

How about some context?
"31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Jesus is addressing Jews.

And the rest:
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

I think I have sufficiently made my point in saying that Jews who are part of the covenant are not guaranteed salvation, and this is from Jesus Himself. He made it clear what it takes to be saved to these Jews who believed being Abraham's descendants was enough. It is not enough.

Jesus is addressing Jews.

You are wrong. I may be right. I say that because I am still learning myself. I too have to sift through all of this in accordance to who I am. If I am unstable, my study may not be stable. I may read into it, as you have. Jews and Gentiles are both children of God, or children of the devil. Both Jews and non-Jewish Gentiles are adopted children of God, however, the promised inheritance of Abraham is for the Jews. Our inheritance is in Christ. We will find out what that is when we meet Him. I just prefer to have/know Him. That in and of itself is more than I can handle. And again, I would like to, my number 2 request, to see God's glorious salvation of Israel. It consumes me at times. I would love to be there to see Paul's unfiltered reaction to his countrymen finally seeing/accepting the truth. While he was sent to the non-Hebrew Gentiles, His heart was set on his people to the point that he went to Jerusalem after all of God's warnings not to go. I am very certain God was absolutely NOT against Paul going, but made Paul's actions that much more poignant. His love for his people was so strong, he didn't even care that he would be in chains and would be killed. That is full blooded dedication to what one loves and desires, which for Paul, was to see his countrymen accept Christ by faith.

Jesus was prophesied to Israel and to Israel He came:

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
John 1:30–31.

Manifest = appear.

Jesus was prophesied to Israel and to Israel He came. And when He began His ministry, He ministered to Jews.
Jesus taught Jews from out of their Law. Gentiles got nuthin' coming from God and His Christ.

 

[armylngst]

The Roman army was a collection of Gentiles from those nations or tribes Rome conquered and the majority of the army of Rome was not Italian but a mix of those conquered peoples. Cornelius would have to be a mixed-race Hebrew and descendant of the twelve tribes. For approximately 29-35 generations of Jews were born and grew up as Gentile in these Gentile lands being scattered by God through the Assyrian Conquest of the ten northern kingdom tribes and their exile; and the Babylonian Conquest of the two northern kingdom tribes in 722 and 586 BC, respectively.

Still wrong. History shows either a non-Hebrew Roman, or Italian. However it also says that he was a God-fearer, a title reserved for non-Jewish/Hebrew Gentiles who stopped accepting paganism, and instead believed in 1 God.
"Cornelius is called a God-fearer--that is to say, he was a monotheist, a Gentile who worshipped the One God. The Jews traditionally recognized that such Gentiles had a place in the Family of God, and they are mentioned along with the priests (House of Aaron), the Levites (House of Levi), and the Jews or Israelites (House of Israel) in Ps 115:9-13, Ps 118:2-4, and Ps 135:19-20. In New Testament times, an estimated ten per cent of the population of the Roman Empire consisted of God-fearers, Gentiles who recognized that the pagan belief in many gods and goddesses, who according to the myths about them were given to adultery, treachery, intrigue, and the like, was not a religion for a thoughtful and moral worshipper, and who had accordingly embraced an ethical monotheism--belief in One God, who had created the world, and who was the upholder of the Moral Law. Although only a few of them took the step of formal conversion to Judaism, undergoing circumcision and accepting the obligations of keeping the food laws and ritual laws of Moses and his rabbinical interpreters, most of them attended synagogue services regularly."
Psalm 115
"9 O Israel, trust thou in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
10 O house of Aaron, trust in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
11 Ye that fear the Lord, trust in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
12 The Lord hath been mindful of us: he will bless us; he will bless the house of Israel; he will bless the house of Aaron.
13 He will bless them that fear the Lord, both small and great.

He tacked on the "both small and great" for some reason. Inclusivity? It covers everyone who fear the Lord. That includes non-Hebrew Gentiles. And God has blessed non-Hebrew Gentiles in the past.

Psalm 118
"2 Let Israel now say, that his mercy endureth for ever.
3 Let the house of Aaron now say, that his mercy endureth for ever.
4 Let them now that fear the Lord say, that his mercy endureth for ever."

Psalm 135
"19 Bless the Lord, O house of Israel: bless the Lord, O house of Aaron:
20 Bless the Lord, O house of Levi: ye that fear the Lord, bless the Lord."

It is clear from how it is stated in Psalms, that God included non-Hebrew Gentiles who feared God along with Israel. And this was BEFORE any exile. The covenant gave Israel a land of promise. It was not a covenant of salvation. To go into the New Covenant, you would have to explain where the blood was sprinkled on all the Jews. It didn't happen at the cross. It happens by faith. It is the same as with the first covenant. The Israelites stand before God, and make claim to the terms of the covenant, and then the blood was sprinkled on them, sealing them in the covenant. However, you are trying to say that that is not true of the New Covenant. But it is. The statement of the Old Covenant is replaced by faith/belief in Christ and the changed heart/mind, and at that point, the blood of Christ is applied, and they enter covenant with Christ.

Whether through rape, marriage, concubinage, or slavery, God used this scattering to infuse non-Hebrew Gentiles into the covenant but by being non-Hebrew and Gentile there is no record of God covenanting or promising Gentile anything. On the contrary, God's attitude toward the non-Hebrew Gentile nations is made clear in Isaiah's prophecies:

Again, the covenant has nothing to do with this.

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

I get that you know how to change what God has said for your purposes by removing it from context, and then caliming you know what it means. This verse has been removed from a MUCH larger context, and has nothing to do with what you are saying. Thank you for constantly adding/removing from God's word by isolating verses.

God is NOT double minded. It cannot be said of God that non-Hebrew Gentile (nations) are NOTHING and then later to save them by His Spirit. God NEVER promised His Spirit to anyone other that Israel as Joel's prophecy bears this truth out.

Should I point out verses where God says the same sort of thing about Israel? I wouldn't be saying that God is saying Israel is nothing, because the context of the whole Bible makes it clear that that is not what God is saying. This is why you have to STOP pulling things out of context ,simply because your beliefs would collapse if you didn't. It means that your beliefs are not correct, and not built on a solid foundation, and that you should reconsider.

God is recorded many times in the Old Testament of calling Israel to her sins. But Jesus did not call Judas nothing except being a liar (traducer is the Greek word translated "devil" in this passage.) Traducer means "liar." Jesus says this very thing:

"When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Judas was called a "liar" by Judas.

Jesus is addressing Jews.

Jesus is addressing Jews.

Jesus was prophesied to Israel and to Israel He came:

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
John 1:30–31.

Manifest = appear.

Jesus was prophesied to Israel and to Israel He came. And when He began His ministry, He ministered to Jews.
Jesus taught Jews from out of their Law. Gentiles got nuthin' coming from God and His Christ.

I see you completely ignored everything Jesus Himself said simply because, while it is in line with what Jesus knows, it goes against what you believe. Manifest does mean appear if you are talking about a spirit or a ghost. Are you saying you don't believe Jesus came in the flesh? If you look at the actual definition of manifest, you would understand what John the Baptist is saing. "clear or obvious to the eye or mind." To be made clear, obvious, manifest fits perfectly in here, to the eye or mind. So John's actions are to make it manifest who Jesus is when He comes. John baptizes with water, Jesus will baptize as well, but with the Holy Spirit. In this way, Jesus is made manifest.

Gentiles have salvation coming from God and His Christ through the promises God made to Abraham after Abraham followed God's command to sacrifice Isaac, and God stopped him knowing Abraham would go through with it. Why? Abraham had no doubt that even if Isaac died, Isaac would live again to be the fulfillment of God's promise. That is a stronger faith then we could ever hope to have. And due to this, all the nations of the world would be blessed in Jesus. Yes, Jesus came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Did that include all the one's that God Himself stated for the record, were children of Satan? He stated it for the record. If all of a sudden He said, well, you know, they aren't actually children of Satan, what would that mean, for the record? And what did Jesus say was the mark of one who wasn't a child of Satan? Faith/belief in Him. Not being a part of the covenant. When it came to salvation, and whose child they were, it was solely based on faith/belief in Jesus. I can see why you don't want to deal with the passage, since it is a direct statement from God Himself. You would rather take away from God's word, which, wouldn't that be worse then adding to God's word?

The gospel is salvation to all mankind. It became that after Jesus commanded His disciples to go into all the world, and to all nations preaching the gospel. There is no universal salvation, as the message calls for faith and belief. As Paul said, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Not, enter covenant and be saved. Not, follow the Law and put yourself under the law to be saved. Believe...believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. Paul taught faith over the Law. The Law being death to those who put themselves under it. Jesus is the life, that is, the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by submitting to the covenant and the Law, right? No. That is not what Jesus said. The only way to God is through Christ, and that is by faith/belief.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Still wrong. History shows either a non-Hebrew Roman, or Italian. However it also says that he was a God-fearer, a title reserved for non-Jewish/Hebrew Gentiles who stopped accepting paganism, and instead believed in 1 God.
"Cornelius is called a God-fearer--that is to say, he was a monotheist, a Gentile who worshipped the One God. The Jews traditionally recognized that such Gentiles had a place in the Family of God, and they are mentioned along with the priests (House of Aaron), the Levites (House of Levi), and the Jews or Israelites (House of Israel) in Ps 115:9-13, Ps 118:2-4, and Ps 135:19-20. In New Testament times, an estimated ten per cent of the population of the Roman Empire consisted of God-fearers, Gentiles who recognized that the pagan belief in many gods and goddesses, who according to the myths about them were given to adultery, treachery, intrigue, and the like, was not a religion for a thoughtful and moral worshipper, and who had accordingly embraced an ethical monotheism--belief in One God, who had created the world, and who was the upholder of the Moral Law. Although only a few of them took the step of formal conversion to Judaism, undergoing circumcision and accepting the obligations of keeping the food laws and ritual laws of Moses and his rabbinical interpreters, most of them attended synagogue services regularly."
Psalm 115
"9 O Israel, trust thou in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
10 O house of Aaron, trust in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
11 Ye that fear the Lord, trust in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
12 The Lord hath been mindful of us: he will bless us; he will bless the house of Israel; he will bless the house of Aaron.
13 He will bless them that fear the Lord, both small and great.

That's correct. And anyone who disobeys the Lord will not be blessed. Deuteronomy 28 clearly states this.
But since the covenant of Abraham and Moses never included Gentiles Cornelius would have to be mixed-race or the New Testament writers are adding to the Bible and the New Testament should be rejected as the Word of God.
It's not the New Testament that contradicts the Old Testament on this question, it's your interpretation.

He tacked on the "both small and great" for some reason. Inclusivity? It covers everyone who fear the Lord. That includes non-Hebrew Gentiles. And God has blessed non-Hebrew Gentiles in the past.

Psalm 118
"2 Let Israel now say, that his mercy endureth for ever.
3 Let the house of Aaron now say, that his mercy endureth for ever.
4 Let them now that fear the Lord say, that his mercy endureth for ever."

Psalm 135
"19 Bless the Lord, O house of Israel: bless the Lord, O house of Aaron:
20 Bless the Lord, O house of Levi: ye that fear the Lord, bless the Lord."

It is clear from how it is stated in Psalms, that God included non-Hebrew Gentiles who feared God along with Israel. And this was BEFORE any exile. The covenant gave Israel a land of promise. It was not a covenant of salvation. To go into the New Covenant, you would have to explain where the blood was sprinkled on all the Jews. It didn't happen at the cross. It happens by faith. It is the same as with the first covenant. The Israelites stand before God, and make claim to the terms of the covenant, and then the blood was sprinkled on them, sealing them in the covenant. However, you are trying to say that that is not true of the New Covenant. But it is. The statement of the Old Covenant is replaced by faith/belief in Christ and the changed heart/mind, and at that point, the blood of Christ is applied, and they enter covenant with Christ.

The Abraham Covenant is described in Genesis 12, 15, and 17. There is no mention of Gentiles being included in this covenant.

Again, the covenant has nothing to do with this.

I get that you know how to change what God has said for your purposes by removing it from context, and then caliming you know what it means. This verse has been removed from a MUCH larger context, and has nothing to do with what you are saying. Thank you for constantly adding/removing from God's word by isolating verses.

Should I point out verses where God says the same sort of thing about Israel? I wouldn't be saying that God is saying Israel is nothing, because the context of the whole Bible makes it clear that that is not what God is saying. This is why you have to STOP pulling things out of context ,simply because your beliefs would collapse if you didn't. It means that your beliefs are not correct, and not built on a solid foundation, and that you should reconsider.

I see you completely ignored everything Jesus Himself said simply because, while it is in line with what Jesus knows, it goes against what you believe. Manifest does mean appear if you are talking about a spirit or a ghost. Are you saying you don't believe Jesus came in the flesh? If you look at the actual definition of manifest, you would understand what John the Baptist is saing. "clear or obvious to the eye or mind." To be made clear, obvious, manifest fits perfectly in here, to the eye or mind. So John's actions are to make it manifest who Jesus is when He comes. John baptizes with water, Jesus will baptize as well, but with the Holy Spirit. In this way, Jesus is made manifest.

Gentiles have salvation coming from God and His Christ through the promises God made to Abraham after Abraham followed God's command to sacrifice Isaac, and God stopped him knowing Abraham would go through with it. Why? Abraham had no doubt that even if Isaac died, Isaac would live again to be the fulfillment of God's promise. That is a stronger faith then we could ever hope to have. And due to this, all the nations of the world would be blessed in Jesus. Yes, Jesus came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Did that include all the one's that God Himself stated for the record, were children of Satan? He stated it for the record. If all of a sudden He said, well, you know, they aren't actually children of Satan, what would that mean, for the record? And what did Jesus say was the mark of one who wasn't a child of Satan? Faith/belief in Him. Not being a part of the covenant. When it came to salvation, and whose child they were, it was solely based on faith/belief in Jesus. I can see why you don't want to deal with the passage, since it is a direct statement from God Himself. You would rather take away from God's word, which, wouldn't that be worse then adding to God's word?

The gospel is salvation to all mankind. It became that after Jesus commanded His disciples to go into all the world, and to all nations preaching the gospel. There is no universal salvation, as the message calls for faith and belief. As Paul said, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Not, enter covenant and be saved. Not, follow the Law and put yourself under the law to be saved. Believe...believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. Paul taught faith over the Law. The Law being death to those who put themselves under it. Jesus is the life, that is, the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by submitting to the covenant and the Law, right? No. That is not what Jesus said. The only way to God is through Christ, and that is by faith/belief.

The Mosaic Covenant did not include Gentiles. It's your interpretation of the Word of God that is in error.
Try again.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

A theology that puts genes as the basis of salvation is not only absurd, but evil.
There is no point in following it.

Any god who saves people based on their genes is genocide.
Any book considered sacred that supports such notion is, by definition, evil.

Who is interested in following such theology? Who? And if there is any person interested, like @jeremiah1five pretends to be, we should ask ourselves what are the social and psychological factors that made him interested on an evil theology.
So, perhaps more important than asking WHO? we should ask ourselves WHY?

Has @jeremiah1five chosen to believe what he believes? How much freedom has he had to make that choice?
What forces in his family, his upbringing, his readings, his professors or pastors, influenced him to choose an absurd and evil theology?

Does somebody in this forum agree with me that the theology he pursues is EVIL? I don't mean only WRONG. I mean EVIL. Does anyone agree with me?

 

[armylngst]

That's correct. And anyone who disobeys the Lord will not be blessed. Deuteronomy 28 clearly states this.
But since the covenant of Abraham and Moses never included Gentiles Cornelius would have to be mixed-race or the New Testament writers are adding to the Bible and the New Testament should be rejected as the Word of God.

Or, the simplest answer of all, you are wrong. And that is not only the simplest answer, it is the correct answer. The fact that you would actually set up the Bible on a stand so you can burn it with a flamethrower, the fact that you would even CONSIDER that, shows where your heart is. The whole idea that either you are right, or God is wrong should never be considered as an answer to an argument. If it ever gets to God is wrong, replace God in that statement with YOU. YOU are wrong.

It's not the New Testament that contradicts the Old Testament on this question, it's your interpretation.

My interpretation, and the New Testament, do not contradict the Old testament. The fact you cannot even accept the Old Testament passages that show that non-Hebrew Gentiles who fear God are blessed is part of your problem. You won't even accept the possibility that Melchizedek will be in heaven, much less Noah. Those non-Hebrew Gentiles who actually know God and fear Him (and they existed) were blessed and as saved as the Jews. They don't get their own promised land, but they are saved.

The Abraham Covenant is described in Genesis 12, 15, and 17. There is no mention of Gentiles being included in this covenant.

Again. IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT DOESN'T MATTER. Genesis 22 is clear that in Jesus, ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD ARE BLESSED. See anything about a covenant there? I didn't think so. However, I see Christ there. I see Jesus there. Salvation is in Christ, not the covenant. What did the covenant promise?
Genesis 12 (a promise), but there is no covenant here. Not sure why you think there is a covenant here. There are only promises. Blood must be shed for a covenant to be made.
"2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

Genesis 15
"9 And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
10 And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.
11 And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
[13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.]
Not the covenant. Another promise.

[17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.] This is the sacrifice/blood (animals were dead) and notitice that only God passed between the pieces. God did not have Abraham pass through.

[18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.]
This is the covenant God made with Abraham, as it says in verse 18. This was not made WITH Abraham, but to Abraham. God did not give Abraham terms, because it was a covenant God made to Abraham on Himself. Hence only God passed between the pieces of the sacrifice.
Genesis 17
"2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

The blood of this covenant is part of the circumcision. And the circumcision is the sign of the covenant. However, you will notice again, there is not a single mention of salvation here.

The Mosaic Covenant did not include Gentiles. It's your interpretation of the Word of God that is in error.
Try again.

Okay, are you going to be putting forth slander in every comment you put out. I never said the Gentiles were part of the Mosaic covenant. Not once. I do not believe Gentiles are part of the Mosaic Covenant. Stop wasting your time stacking up sin at God's door step.

 

[jeremiah1five]

A theology that puts genes as the basis of salvation is not only absurd, but evil.
There is no point in following it.

Any god who saves people based on their genes is genocide.
Any book considered sacred that supports such notion is, by definition, evil.

Who is interested in following such theology? Who? And if there is any person interested, like @jeremiah1five pretends to be, we should ask ourselves what are the social and psychological factors that made him interested on an evil theology.
So, perhaps more important than asking WHO? we should ask ourselves WHY?

Has @jeremiah1five chosen to believe what he believes? How much freedom has he had to make that choice?
What forces in his family, his upbringing, his readings, his professors or pastors, influenced him to choose an absurd and evil theology?

Does somebody in this forum agree with me that the theology he pursues is EVIL? I don't mean only WRONG. I mean EVIL. Does anyone agree with me?

That is EXACTLY what God did - He promised Abram the Hebrew several things which are recorded in Genesis chapter 12, 15, and 17, and God extended the covenant to Isaac, who was born from two Hebrew parents.

The Abrahamic Covenant:
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Genesis 17:7.

and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. Genesis 17:13.

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. Genesis 17:19.

As you can see, I am only saying the same thing as God.
The Abrahamic Covenant is a biological covenant between God, Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13), and with his Hebrew seed.

To call God's Word "evil" is to call God "evil" for making such a generational covenant with Abraham and with his seed: Isaac.

If God named or mentioned non-Hebrew Gentiles to be included in this covenant, then I would say the same thing as God. But since God did not include non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant neither do I include them in this covenant. Your issue is not with me, but with God.
Adding to God's Word is sin. There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles included in the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 12, 15, and 17.

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Or, the simplest answer of all, you are wrong. And that is not only the simplest answer, it is the correct answer. The fact that you would actually set up the Bible on a stand so you can burn it with a flamethrower, the fact that you would even CONSIDER that, shows where your heart is. The whole idea that either you are right, or God is wrong should never be considered as an answer to an argument. If it ever gets to God is wrong, replace God in that statement with YOU. YOU are wrong.

My interpretation, and the New Testament, do not contradict the Old testament. The fact you cannot even accept the Old Testament passages that show that non-Hebrew Gentiles who fear God are blessed is part of your problem. You won't even accept the possibility that Melchizedek will be in heaven, much less Noah. Those non-Hebrew Gentiles who actually know God and fear Him (and they existed) were blessed and as saved as the Jews. They don't get their own promised land, but they are saved.

Again. IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT DOESN'T MATTER. Genesis 22 is clear that in Jesus, ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD ARE BLESSED. See anything about a covenant there? I didn't think so. However, I see Christ there. I see Jesus there. Salvation is in Christ, not the covenant. What did the covenant promise?
Genesis 12 (a promise), but there is no covenant here. Not sure why you think there is a covenant here. There are only promises. Blood must be shed for a covenant to be made.
"2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

Genesis 15
"9 And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
10 And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.
11 And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
[13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.]
Not the covenant. Another promise.

[17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.] This is the sacrifice/blood (animals were dead) and notitice that only God passed between the pieces. God did not have Abraham pass through.

[18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.]
This is the covenant God made with Abraham, as it says in verse 18. This was not made WITH Abraham, but to Abraham. God did not give Abraham terms, because it was a covenant God made to Abraham on Himself. Hence only God passed between the pieces of the sacrifice.
Genesis 17
"2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

The blood of this covenant is part of the circumcision. And the circumcision is the sign of the covenant. However, you will notice again, there is not a single mention of salvation here.

Okay, are you going to be putting forth slander in every comment you put out. I never said the Gentiles were part of the Mosaic covenant. Not once. I do not believe Gentiles are part of the Mosaic Covenant. Stop wasting your time stacking up sin at God's door step.

I am not the one who is adding to the Bible, YOU are.

There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles included in any of the three Hebrew covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New.)

To claim non-Hebrew Gentiles are included in any of these three HEBREW covenants is adding to the Bible and making yourself out - and God - to be liars.

If non-Hebrew Gentiles were mentioned as being included in these three HEBREW covenants, then I would say so also. But as an honest reading of the text reveals there are no Gentiles in either of these three Hebrew covenants.
I am not the one who is adding to God's Word things not stated in the text - YOU ARE.

 

[armylngst]

That is EXACTLY what God did - He promised Abram the Hebrew several things which are recorded in Genesis chapter 12, 15, and 17, and God extended the covenant to Isaac, who was born from two Hebrew parents.

The Abrahamic Covenant:
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Genesis 17:7.

and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. Genesis 17:13.

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. Genesis 17:19.

As you can see, I am only saying the same thing as God.
The Abrahamic Covenant is a biological covenant between God, Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13), and with his Hebrew seed.

To call God's Word "evil" is to call God "evil" for making such a generational covenant with Abraham and with his seed: Isaac.

If God named or mentioned non-Hebrew Gentiles to be included in this covenant, then I would say the same thing as God. But since God did not include non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant neither do I include them in this covenant. Your issue is not with me, but with God.
Adding to God's Word is sin. There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles included in the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 12, 15, and 17.

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.

You keep leaving out the rest of scripture. You are short sighted. God's plan was for the whole world, it just started with Israel, and, for the promises He made, it will end with Israel. The Abrahamic covenant was the beginning, the Mosaic expanded it, Jesus expanded it further to include non-Hebrew Gentiles in SALVATION (the scripture does not make clear if the new covenant in Christ was made with the world, with special recognition to the Jews, or if it is the blessings through God's promises to Abraham that secured salvation for the non-Hebrew Gentiles. I go with the promises made to Abraham, specifically in Genesis 22.)

Once again, I have NOT ONCE said that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the covenant. NOT ONCE. You keep stacking up that same sin over and over. We are BLESSED in Christ, which is what God promised Abraham. ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD will be blessed in Christ. They were. Not in universalism, but that God also has an elect in the non-Jewish Gentiles who do not get a stake in the land God promised to Abraham. Why not? They aren't a part of that covenant. However, the planet is YUGE. That land in Israel isn't the only land on the planet. Again, there is a lot of scripture you just throw out. You don't seem to understand what Paul meant when he said that there are parts of God's eternal plan that were hidden until "Now". That is, until God revealed it to Peter in his vision sending him to the non-Jewish Gentile Cornelius (I looked it up. The concensus is... Cornelius was full blooded Roman/Italian posted to the Italian legion in Israel. The God fearer, which, if you read the passages in Psalms, are blessed by God right along with Israel, Aaron's family, and the Levites. Specifically termed as "those who fear God". Gentiles as a whole are not godless. A lot of them are. There are some who know God, and "fear" Him, and have been saved. Saved does not mean becoming a part of the Mosaic covenant. It means that they stand before God in Christ's righteousness. That's it.

 

[armylngst]

I am not the one who is adding to the Bible, YOU are.

There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles included in any of the three Hebrew covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New.)

Again. I HAVE NEVER SAID THERE WERE, though the new could be questionable. It all depends on what the new covenant was.

To claim non-Hebrew Gentiles are included in any of these three HEBREW covenants is adding to the Bible and making yourself out - and God - to be liars.

I have not yet claimed they were. Stop deflecting. I have told you that it is all found in God's promise to Abraham after he went to sacrifice Isaac. ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD will be blessed in Christ.

If non-Hebrew Gentiles were mentioned as being included in these three HEBREW covenants, then I would say so also. But as an honest reading of the text reveals there are no Gentiles in either of these three Hebrew covenants.
I am not the one who is adding to God's Word things not stated in the text - YOU ARE.

Also, you would not say so. However, I never said they were. How many times do I have to say that, before you stop showing yourself to be a liar, falling under Paul's list of people who will not enter the kingdom of God.

You do add to scripture. You say that all Israel, every last Hebrew will be saved, and that is not true. It would be nice if the universalist heresy were true, but it is not. I have already shown you where Jesus EXPLICITLY states that the Jewish people he was speaking to, who did not believe/accept what he was saying are, direct statement, children of the devil, and not children of God. Salvation was not guaranteed to Israel, however, they get first dibs, and instead of just letting them die, they get a second chance as well. Non-Hebrew Gentiles aren't afforded a second chance. They just get the one. The middle section of history. The important part of history has Israel as the bookends, and the Gentiles as the middle section.

God's plan includes all humanity in its scope. However, the main plan for the Messiah started with Israel. The main plan started with Adam and Eve, included their fall, then Cain and Abel, Seth, Enoch, Melchizedek, Noah, etc. That is all the prelude to the main plan. The build up. After Israel rejects (as a group, not as individuals), the gospel goes to the non-Hebrew Gentiles. Once God is done with His dealings with the non-Hebrew Gentiles, God will turn His full attention back to Israel. He will complete His decree that was given/shared with Daniel. And will complete Zechariah, which still has not been fulfilled for ISRAEL.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You keep leaving out the rest of scripture. You are short sighted. God's plan was for the whole world, it just started with Israel, and, for the promises He made, it will end with Israel. The Abrahamic covenant was the beginning, the Mosaic expanded it, Jesus expanded it further to include non-Hebrew Gentiles in SALVATION (the scripture does not make clear if the new covenant in Christ was made with the world, with special recognition to the Jews, or if it is the blessings through God's promises to Abraham that secured salvation for the non-Hebrew Gentiles. I go with the promises made to Abraham, specifically in Genesis 22.)

Once again, I have NOT ONCE said that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the covenant. NOT ONCE. You keep stacking up that same sin over and over. We are BLESSED in Christ, which is what God promised Abraham. ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD will be blessed in Christ. They were. Not in universalism, but that God also has an elect in the non-Jewish Gentiles who do not get a stake in the land God promised to Abraham. Why not? They aren't a part of that covenant. However, the planet is YUGE. That land in Israel isn't the only land on the planet. Again, there is a lot of scripture you just throw out. You don't seem to understand what Paul meant when he said that there are parts of God's eternal plan that were hidden until "Now". That is, until God revealed it to Peter in his vision sending him to the non-Jewish Gentile Cornelius (I looked it up. The concensus is... Cornelius was full blooded Roman/Italian posted to the Italian legion in Israel. The God fearer, which, if you read the passages in Psalms, are blessed by God right along with Israel, Aaron's family, and the Levites. Specifically termed as "those who fear God". Gentiles as a whole are not godless. A lot of them are. There are some who know God, and "fear" Him, and have been saved. Saved does not mean becoming a part of the Mosaic covenant. It means that they stand before God in Christ's righteousness. That's it.

God saves through covenant. Non-Hebrew Gentiles have no covenant for salvation with God. The whole of Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation is a Hebrew "book." The authors are Hebrew, and they write to the Hebrew people also known as "Jews."

The Mosaic Covenant instructed and commanded by God upon the children of Israel is a three-part covenant: Social Laws, Moral Laws, and Ceremonial Laws.
The Ceremonial Laws instructed Israel in their worship of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It contains instructions for the temporary atonement of the sins of the children of Israel of twelve tribes. One of the Promises of God is to send/provide a Deliverer and Prophet "like unto Moses." This Deliverer was promised and prophesied by God through His prophets. The fulfillment of the promises and prophecies of Israel's Deliverer is found in the Person of Jesus bar Joseph, Israel's Anointed One (Messiah.) Israel's Messiah was born in Bethlehem as prophesied by the prophets (Micah, Isaiah, etc.) and was born to two Hebrew parents of the seed of Abraham and of the tribe of Judah. His birth was a miraculous birth in which a Hebrew maiden/virgin was found with child while engaged to a Hebrew man who was descendant of king David.

In conclusion Jesus Christ died a substitutionary death in place of the animal which was sacrificed under the Law to atone for the sins of a people under the Law. Scripture does not record that Jesus Christ died to atone for the sins of all people for not all people were under covenant as was the children of Israel through the Law of Moses. There is nothing in the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets that states non-Hebrew Gentiles had their sins atoned by God through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on a Roman cross. There is no covenant of salvation between the God of Abraham and non-Hebrew Gentiles. If there was a covenant between the God of Abraham and non-Hebrew Gentiles, the Scripture would record this covenant and the name of the Gentile with whom such covenant was made but there is no such covenant in Scripture for the salvation of non-Hebrew Gentiles.

None at all.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Again. I HAVE NEVER SAID THERE WERE, though the new could be questionable. It all depends on what the new covenant was.

I have not yet claimed they were. Stop deflecting. I have told you that it is all found in God's promise to Abraham after he went to sacrifice Isaac. ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD will be blessed in Christ.

Also, you would not say so. However, I never said they were. How many times do I have to say that, before you stop showing yourself to be a liar, falling under Paul's list of people who will not enter the kingdom of God.

You do add to scripture. You say that all Israel, every last Hebrew will be saved, and that is not true. It would be nice if the universalist heresy were true, but it is not. I have already shown you where Jesus EXPLICITLY states that the Jewish people he was speaking to, who did not believe/accept what he was saying are, direct statement, children of the devil, and not children of God. Salvation was not guaranteed to Israel, however, they get first dibs, and instead of just letting them die, they get a second chance as well. Non-Hebrew Gentiles aren't afforded a second chance. They just get the one. The middle section of history. The important part of history has Israel as the bookends, and the Gentiles as the middle section.

God's plan includes all humanity in its scope. However, the main plan for the Messiah started with Israel. The main plan started with Adam and Eve, included their fall, then Cain and Abel, Seth, Enoch, Melchizedek, Noah, etc. That is all the prelude to the main plan. The build up. After Israel rejects (as a group, not as individuals), the gospel goes to the non-Hebrew Gentiles. Once God is done with His dealings with the non-Hebrew Gentiles, God will turn His full attention back to Israel. He will complete His decree that was given/shared with Daniel. And will complete Zechariah, which still has not been fulfilled for ISRAEL.

There is no record of a covenant between the God of Abraham and non-Hebrew Gentiles and Jesus Christ did not die to atone for a people who never had a covenant of salvation with God. That's the bottom line.

 

[armylngst]

God saves through covenant.

Which is nowhere stated in the Bible. God saves by grace through faith. That is EXPLICITLY stated in the BIble.

Non-Hebrew Gentiles have no covenant for salvation with God. The whole of Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation is a Hebrew "book." The authors are Hebrew, and they write to the Hebrew people also known as "Jews."

The Bible is for the world. The Old Testament was first to Israel, and taught by the Rabbis.

The Mosaic Covenant instructed and commanded by God upon the children of Israel is a three-part covenant: Social Laws, Moral Laws, and Ceremonial Laws.
The Ceremonial Laws instructed Israel in their worship of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It contains instructions for the temporary atonement of the sins of the children of Israel of twelve tribes. One of the Promises of God is to send/provide a Deliverer and Prophet "like unto Moses." This Deliverer was promised and prophesied by God through His prophets. The fulfillment of the promises and prophecies of Israel's Deliverer is found in the Person of Jesus bar Joseph, Israel's Anointed One (Messiah.) Israel's Messiah was born in Bethlehem as prophesied by the prophets (Micah, Isaiah, etc.) and was born to two Hebrew parents of the seed of Abraham and of the tribe of Judah. His birth was a miraculous birth in which a Hebrew maiden/virgin was found with child while engaged to a Hebrew man who was descendant of king David.

In conclusion Jesus Christ died a substitutionary death in place of the animal which was sacrificed under the Law to atone for the sins of a people under the Law. Scripture does not record that Jesus Christ died to atone for the sins of all people for not all people were under covenant as was the children of Israel through the Law of Moses. There is nothing in the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets that states non-Hebrew Gentiles had their sins atoned by God through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on a Roman cross. There is no covenant of salvation between the God of Abraham and non-Hebrew Gentiles. If there was a covenant between the God of Abraham and non-Hebrew Gentiles, the Scripture would record this covenant and the name of the Gentile with whom such covenant was made but there is no such covenant in Scripture for the salvation of non-Hebrew Gentiles.

None at all.

Again, I NEVER SAID THERE WAS. The covenant did not save. The covenant was not meant to save. A lot of Hebrews are damned for sin. A lot of Gentiles as well. The covenant made Israel the Nation upon which God set His name. They then proceeded to constantly trample on His name. They were punished for their actions. Some were saved from the punishment. There is a lot more going on then you are willing to admit. Perhaps you think God is tiny.

Psalms is clear that those who fear God are blessed, alongside Israel, Aaron's family, and the Levites. This was written long before the exile of Israel. It is speaking of those non-Hebrew Gentiles who heard/learned about God, and feared/believed in Him. And that is true to today. They just don't wear the label "member of the nation upon which God set His name'. They fear God, believe in God, have faith in God, and God blessed them for it. And in this time, and for those from that time, those who fear/believe/have faith in God/Jesus who are non-Hebrew Gentiles, they are saved by that. Do they get prime real estate in Abraham's covenant? NO. In the Mosaic covenant which assigned the land? NO. They are blessed by having faith like Abraham. Adam, Eve, Abel, Seth, Noah, Melchizedek, Rahab, Ruth, etc.

You just don't get it. Non-Hebrew Gentiles being saved does NOTHING to Israel's standing before God in covenant. Nothing at all. Why else does God make it clear that the non-Hebrew Gentiles have been grafted into the cultivated tree SOLELY by the kindness of God, and that God would easily, without second thought, tear them out for lack of humility, and for not continuing in God's kindness, and would be more than happy to reattach a Jew that has come to believe/have faith in Christ. The Gentiles have no standing other than the kindness and severity of God, according to Paul. I'm not sure why you don't get this. God's plan, which was NOT, as Paul said, visible in the Old Testament, was revealed to the apostles, which was non-Hebrew Gentiles would be a part of the CHURCH, not a part of ISRAEL. Hence Peter said not to put them under a burden that not even the Jews could handle, that is the covenant and the Law. So they didn't. They gave them a small list of things not to do, and said that if they don't do those things, then everything will be well with them. The general idea is that these non-Hebrew Gentiles were not under covenant, however, God had made it clear to Peter and the other apostles that the non-Hebrew Gentiles were a part of God's plan.

Give ONE verse just ONE that says salvation is by covenant, and not by faith/belief. I know you are going to give your opinion, but I want a Bible verse that says that salvation is found in the covenant/Law, and not in Christ.

 

[armylngst]

There is no record of a covenant between the God of Abraham and non-Hebrew Gentiles and Jesus Christ did not die to atone for a people who never had a covenant of salvation with God. That's the bottom line.

That is what you get when you leave the Bible behind. Give an explicit verse that states that Jesus did not die to save a people who never had a covenant of salvation with God. Know I will point out the verse where it says that God will call a people who are not His people, His people. I understand your wish to see Adam, Eve, Abel, Seth, Enoch, Noah and Melchizedek damned, but I don't subscribe to that. Besides, I give much credence to the idea that Melchizedek was possibly Jesus, which would cause issues with your whole covenant theory.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Which is nowhere stated in the Bible. God saves by grace through faith. That is EXPLICITLY stated in the BIble.

The Bible is for the world. The Old Testament was first to Israel, and taught by the Rabbis.

Again, I NEVER SAID THERE WAS. The covenant did not save. The covenant was not meant to save. A lot of Hebrews are damned for sin. A lot of Gentiles as well. The covenant made Israel the Nation upon which God set His name. They then proceeded to constantly trample on His name. They were punished for their actions. Some were saved from the punishment. There is a lot more going on then you are willing to admit. Perhaps you think God is tiny.

Psalms is clear that those who fear God are blessed, alongside Israel, Aaron's family, and the Levites. This was written long before the exile of Israel. It is speaking of those non-Hebrew Gentiles who heard/learned about God, and feared/believed in Him. And that is true to today. They just don't wear the label "member of the nation upon which God set His name'. They fear God, believe in God, have faith in God, and God blessed them for it. And in this time, and for those from that time, those who fear/believe/have faith in God/Jesus who are non-Hebrew Gentiles, they are saved by that. Do they get prime real estate in Abraham's covenant? NO. In the Mosaic covenant which assigned the land? NO. They are blessed by having faith like Abraham. Adam, Eve, Abel, Seth, Noah, Melchizedek, Rahab, Ruth, etc.

You just don't get it. Non-Hebrew Gentiles being saved does NOTHING to Israel's standing before God in covenant. Nothing at all. Why else does God make it clear that the non-Hebrew Gentiles have been grafted into the cultivated tree SOLELY by the kindness of God, and that God would easily, without second thought, tear them out for lack of humility, and for not continuing in God's kindness, and would be more than happy to reattach a Jew that has come to believe/have faith in Christ. The Gentiles have no standing other than the kindness and severity of God, according to Paul. I'm not sure why you don't get this. God's plan, which was NOT, as Paul said, visible in the Old Testament, was revealed to the apostles, which was non-Hebrew Gentiles would be a part of the CHURCH, not a part of ISRAEL. Hence Peter said not to put them under a burden that not even the Jews could handle, that is the covenant and the Law. So they didn't. They gave them a small list of things not to do, and said that if they don't do those things, then everything will be well with them. The general idea is that these non-Hebrew Gentiles were not under covenant, however, God had made it clear to Peter and the other apostles that the non-Hebrew Gentiles were a part of God's plan.

Give ONE verse just ONE that says salvation is by covenant, and not by faith/belief. I know you are going to give your opinion, but I want a Bible verse that says that salvation is found in the covenant/Law, and not in Christ.

The idea of salvation being administered through a covenant is a central theme in the Bible and speaks clearly of the New Covenant established through Jesus Christ, which brings eternal redemption.
The following verses directly connect God's covenant with the promise of salvation or eternal redemption:

The New Covenant and Salvation​

The book of Hebrews is particularly explicit about the connection between the New Covenant and salvation:

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Hebrews 9:15.

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting ecovenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Hebrews 13:20–21.

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Hebrews 8:5–6.

God's Covenant with Israel and Future Salvation​

Paul also connects the future salvation of Israel with God's covenant promises:

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:26–27.

These verses demonstrate the teaching in the Scripture that salvation (or eternal inheritance/redemption) is secured and administered through God's established covenant—specifically the New Covenant in the blood of Christ.

The Mosaic Covenant clearly established animal substitution sacrifice for the sins of Israel past, present, and future. It was through the Mosaic Covenant through which God and Christ would provide salvation from sin and death. Someone had to die for Israel's sins and as part of the Law of Moses animals were sacrificed yearly on Israel's holiest day (Yom Kippur) for that purpose. From Abel's first substitutionary sacrifice as taught them by God (Gen. 3:21) sin had to be paid for by the death of the sinner. But by the grace of God the Law of Moses commanded the death of the sinner but also through the Law of Moses substitutionary sacrifice was commanded by God to Israel until in the fulness of time God would Himself provide a sacrifice who died for the sins of Israel and this was done through God's own Son, Jesus Christ.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That is what you get when you leave the Bible behind. Give an explicit verse that states that Jesus did not die to save a people who never had a covenant of salvation with God. Know I will point out the verse where it says that God will call a people who are not His people, His people. I understand your wish to see Adam, Eve, Abel, Seth, Enoch, Noah and Melchizedek damned, but I don't subscribe to that. Besides, I give much credence to the idea that Melchizedek was possibly Jesus, which would cause issues with your whole covenant theory.

The Law of Moses (Mosaic Covenant) provided Israel the means to avoid the wrath of God through substitutionary sacrifice. This is contained primarily in the Ceremonial Law, but the Social and Moral Law is also part of the full redemption of Israel through covenant.

The initial doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice through covenant is described being taught Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:21.

21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. Genesis 3:21.

From the beginning and being passed on to God's people relationship with God is established early.

26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. Genesis 4:26.

This does not mean people can "call" upon the Lord as in calling out to someone. Those that call upon the Lord are already in relationship with God and is a term that speaks of relationship. For no man may approach the Lord unless they are first called out by God. As David said:

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest,
And causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts:
We shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house,
Even of thy holy temple.
Psalms 65:4.

The terminology of "to call upon the Lord" refers to worship. And only those whom God chooses can approach God for worship. And worship itself speaks of relationship. From Adam to Moses God has had a people in relationship with Him. Later, in the process of time God made promises to each person so named in Scripture that were in relationship with God. That's all these promises were. They were God's promises (covenant) to these people at the very beginning. Later, with Abram God made promises to Abram and to his wife, Sarai, and these are recorded in Scripture. Formality was effected with Abram, then Isaac, and then Jacob and his twelve sons. They were heirs of the Abrahamic Promises (covenant) and so continued the plan of God for His people Israel.