The Soteriology of Ignorance: Why to Preach?

[Pancho Frijoles]

This thread is to invite you to discuss salvation in the context of doctrinal ignorance.
We will not discuss here moral ignorance, in the sense of not being able to choose the best moral course of action on account of a still immature cognitive and spiritual development (eg, a little kid who takes candy from the shop without paying for it).

We will rather discuss salvation in people with "doctrinal ignorance": not assenting to whatever doctrine you think is essential for salvation, due to a partial, inaccurate or null understanding of such doctrine.

It is my understanding that most of my Christian brothers and sisters believe that God will save those "doctrinally ignorant" who acted in harmony to the limited level of understanding they had about God, his love and commandments. Such approach is not only applicable to children, mentally disabled and people from other civilizations, religion traditions and times, but also to people within Christian churches as well, as not everyone who self-identifies as "Christian" is equally "knowledgeable" about essential doctrines.

So far, so good.

The problem arises when Christians preach non-Christians doctrines A, B or C, and do not succeed in persuading them to believe those doctrines.
In that case, some Christians come to think that such people have rejected the gospel, and that if they die in such situation, they will endure a well-deserved eternal torment. By trying to make them "doctrinally knowledgeable", instead of leaving them "doctrinally ignorant", they have put their lives at risk of eternal hell.

So, my question for you is
Why would Christians preach to non-Christians, instead of leaving them in ignorance?

As a non-Christian, I believe Christians have very noble and powerful reasons to preach Christ to non-believers.
However, before sharing my opinion, I would like to know yours.

 

[Doug Brents]

This thread is to invite you to discuss salvation in the context of doctrinal ignorance.
We will not discuss here moral ignorance, in the sense of not being able to choose the best moral course of action on account of a still immature cognitive and spiritual development (eg, a little kid who takes candy from the shop without paying for it).

We will rather discuss salvation in people with "doctrinal ignorance": not assenting to whatever doctrine you think is essential for salvation, due to a partial, inaccurate or null understanding of such doctrine.

It is my understanding that most of my Christian brothers and sisters

You are self-identified as "baha'i", which means that Christ followers are NOT your brothers and sisters. You have said in this forum that you are not a Christ follower, and that means that you are not a part of the family/body/bride of Christ, so you are not our brother.

believe that God will save those "doctrinally ignorant" who acted in harmony to the limited level of understanding they had about God, his love and commandments. Such approach is not only applicable to children, mentally disabled and people from other civilizations, religion traditions and times, but also to people within Christian churches as well, as not everyone who self-identifies as "Christian" is equally "knowledgeable" about essential doctrines.

So far, so good.

The problem arises when Christians preach non-Christians doctrines A, B or C, and do not succeed in persuading them to believe those doctrines.
In that case, some Christians come to think that such people have rejected the gospel, and that if they die in such situation, they will endure a well-deserved eternal torment. By trying to make them "doctrinally knowledgeable", instead of leaving them "doctrinally ignorant", they have put their lives at risk of eternal hell.

So, my question for you is
Why would Christians preach to non-Christians, instead of leaving them in ignorance?

As a non-Christian, I believe Christians have very noble and powerful reasons to preach Christ to non-believers.
However, before sharing my opinion, I would like to know yours.

The basis of our mission is the understanding that EVERYONE who is not a Christ follower is condemned already, and the only way to become not condemned is through belief in and obedience to Christ. There is NO other name, NO other doctrine, NO other religion by which you can be saved. There is NO salvation to be found in the hindu, baha'i, mormon, jw, islam, budhist, or any other religion other than Christianity.

That means that teaching someone about Christ, or the doctrines of Christ, does not put them at risk of eternal Hell; they are already condemned to Hell, and their only hope is to believe in and obey Jesus. Jesus has called those of us who are already in Him to reach out to everyone else and offer them the hope that we have.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

You are self-identified as "baha'i", which means that Christ followers are NOT your brothers and sisters. You have said in this forum that you are not a Christ follower, and that means that you are not a part of the family/body/bride of Christ, so you are not our brother.

It is my privilege to see you as my brother, and treat you as such, regardless of how you see me or treat me.
Our Common Creator moves me to think and feel that way.

The basis of our mission is the understanding that EVERYONE who is not a Christ follower is condemned already, and the only way to become not condemned is through belief in and obedience to Christ. There is NO other name, NO other doctrine, NO other religion by which you can be saved. There is NO salvation to be found in the hindu, baha'i, mormon, jw, islam, budhist, or any other religion other than Christianity.

That means that teaching someone about Christ, or the doctrines of Christ, does not put them at risk of eternal Hell; they are already condemned to Hell, and their only hope is to believe in and obey Jesus. Jesus has called those of us who are already in Him to reach out to everyone else and offer them the hope that we have.

The premise of the thread is that the vast majority of Christians do believe that people who live in ignorance will be judged according to the knowledge they had. It is under this premise that I would like to trigger a discussion.
If you don't share this premise... that is, if you think that our loving God will send people who live in ignorance to an eternal torment, then perhaps the thread is not for you.

 

[TomL]

It is my privilege to see you as my brother, and treat you as such, regardless of how you see me or treat me.
Our Common Creator moves me to think and feel that way.

So a Satanist would be your brother?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

So a Satanist would be your brother?

Yes, of course.
Treating all persons as brothers does not imply that I get involved in practices that I consider evil.
So, an alcoholic person is my brother just as a satanist is my brother.

 

[TomL]

Yes, of course.
Treating all persons as brothers does not imply that I get involved in practices that I consider evil.
So, an alcoholic person is my brother just as a satanist is my brother.

Your spiritual brother?

 

[Doug Brents]

It is my privilege to see you as my brother, and treat you as such, regardless of how you see me or treat me.
Our Common Creator moves me to think and feel that way.

It doesn't matter how you see or treat me. It doesn't matter what you think of yourself, call yourself, or how you act. If you are not in Christ, then you are not part of His family, and therefore not our brother.
I call people "brother" all the time, but that doesn't make them biologically, or spiritually, my brother. What makes them my brother is their being adopted into the family of Christ as I have been (Gal 3:26-27).

The premise of the thread is that the vast majority of Christians do believe that people who live in ignorance will be judged according to the knowledge they had. It is under this premise that I would like to trigger a discussion.
If you don't share this premise... that is, if you think that our loving God will send people who live in ignorance to an eternal torment, then perhaps the thread is not for you.

The premise is wrong, because God does not judge people according to the knowledge they have. He judges them by the words in the books He will have open at Judgement (Rev 20:11-12).

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

It doesn't matter how you see or treat me. It doesn't matter what you think of yourself, call yourself, or how you act. If you are not in Christ, then you are not part of His family, and therefore not our brother.

Well, the way I see you and treat you makes all the difference to me. Jesus taught that that's the distinctive sign of those who follow Him:
By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another (John 13:35)

I call people "brother" all the time, but that doesn't make them biologically, or spiritually, my brother. What makes them my brother is their being adopted into the family of Christ as I have been (Gal 3:26-27).

I understand your point.

The premise is wrong, because God does not judge people according to the knowledge they have. He judges them by the words in the books He will have open at Judgement (Rev 20:11-12).

Sure, but He judges with infinite wisdom, justice and mercy.
You, who are imperfect, would NOT send a Buddhist Tibetan lady to eternal torment because she didn't know better.
So, Our Father, whose wisdom, justice and mercy are infinitely higher than you, won't do it either.

This is the premise of the thread. If you don't share this premise with millions of Christians who don't think like you, then perhaps this thread is not for you.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Your spiritual brother?

Yes, of course.
Love does not distinguish between good brothers and bad brothers. Jesus asked us to love even our enemies, didn't he?
To illustrate this, Jesus asked us to think how God behaves with all men, making rain and sun bless the good and the bad.

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. (Matthew 5:43-45)​

As I said, this does not mean that we join the persons we love in practicing something evil... but this principle applies to any person, not only to satanist. Do we agree? For example, within your own church, TomL, you may know people who you wouldn't like to join in practicing something they practice.... or viceversa. You may be a bad example in some aspect of your life, that you wouldn't like other Christians brothers to follow.

No person in this Forum is deprived from the love of God, Our Father, and no person in this Forum should be deprived of the love of Forum members, even if we disagree with some aspects of their beliefs or behaviors.

 

[Doug Brents]

Well, the way I see you and treat you makes all the difference to me. Jesus taught that that's the distinctive sign of those who follow Him:
By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another (John 13:35)

If you are not Christ's then you belong to Satan, and Satan doesn't care how you treat people if you are his. You can be as nice and friendly, or as terrible and deadly as you want to be. But you are still his. And being nice to people doesn't change whose you are.

Sure, but He judges with infinite wisdom, justice and mercy.
You, who are imperfect, would NOT send a Buddhist Tibetan lady to eternal torment because she didn't know better.
So, Our Father, whose wisdom, justice and mercy are infinitely higher than you, won't do it either.

Sure He will. There are only two options in eternity: in Christ or not in Christ. If you are in Christ, then you are going to Heaven for eternity. If you are not in Christ, then you are going to Hell for eternity. A buddhist Tibetan lady who does not know Christ is going to Hell for eternity because she is not in Christ (Rom 1:18-23).
We are not condemned because we don't know Christ. We are condemned because we denied God supremacy in our lives. There is no excuse for denying God, and ALL (EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS EVER LIVED ON EARTH (except Jesus) have denied God and sinned. It is for this that we are condemned, and the only way out of condemnation is through Jesus.

This is the premise of the thread. If you don't share this premise with millions of Christians who don't think like you, then perhaps this thread is not for you.

Unless you are here to learn about, and become a Christ follower, this forum is not for you.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

If you are not Christ's then you belong to Satan, and Satan doesn't care how you treat people if you are his. You can be as nice and friendly, or as terrible and deadly as you want to be. But you are still his. And being nice to people doesn't change whose you are.

I'm not talking about "being nice" I'm talking about loving.
No one can love, unless given by as a gift of the Holy Spirit. A person under the control of "Satan" cannot do what the good Samaritan did to the wounded man. Jesus taught that the bad tree cannot bear good fruits, nor viceversa. Didn't he?

Treating people with love is the distinctive sign of the disciples of Jesus, as Jesus Himself taught.
Furthermore, the good fruits are the distinctive sign of the true teachers vs the false teachers, as Jesus Himself taught, and loving is a distinctive sign of being born again.

If you think that the distinctive sign of a true follower of Jesus is to adhere to doctrines A, B and C, I invite you to re-read the gospels and challenge your own views.

Unless you are here to learn about, and become a Christ follower, this forum is not for you.

My friend: the Forum is open for people from different religious views and backgrounds who want to participate, as long as they adhere to the norms of the Forum. So I participate, under the permission and supervision of the @Administrator

When I tell you that this thread perhaps is not for you (and please note I have been using "perhaps", as I may be wrong), it is because the discussions that I want to trigger are based on a premise that is shared by millions of Christians: that God judge people according to the level of understanding they have. Based on this premise, I ask why should Christians preach, if by preaching they are opening the possibility of people rejecting doctrines that Christians may consider essential for salvation.

If you don't share the opening premise, then my question will not make sense for you. It will be irrelevant. That's all.
I hope you understand what I mean. Please accept my apologies for not having been as clear as I should.

 

[Doug Brents]

I'm not talking about "being nice" I'm talking about loving.
No one can love, unless given by as a gift of the Holy Spirit. A person under the control of "Satan" cannot do what the good Samaritan did to the wounded man. Jesus taught that the bad tree cannot bear good fruits, nor viceversa. Didn't he?

Treating people with love is the distinctive sign of the disciples of Jesus, as Jesus Himself taught.
Furthermore, the good fruits are the distinctive sign of the true teachers vs the false teachers, as Jesus Himself taught, and loving is a distinctive sign of being born again.

If you think that the distinctive sign of a true follower of Jesus is to adhere to doctrines A, B and C, I invite you to re-read the gospels and challenge your own views.

Satan can masquerade as an angel of light (2 Cor 11:12-15), and so can his followers disguise themselves as followers of Christ. You may be able to imitate the love that God commands of His followers, but that doesn't make you one of His children.

My friend: the Forum is open for people from different religious views and backgrounds who want to participate, as long as they adhere to the norms of the Forum. So I participate, under the permission and supervision of the @Administrator

When I tell you that this thread perhaps is not for you (and please note I have been using "perhaps", as I may be wrong), it is because the discussions that I want to trigger are based on a premise that is shared by millions of Christians: that God judge people according to the level of understanding they have.

Again, your premise is completely false as demonstrated by the Scripture passages listed in the last post. And it doesn't matter that millions of people who call themselves "Christians" believe it; it is still wrong. There are many who call themselves "Christians" who are not really Christ followers. They take the Lord's name upon themselves in vain.

Based on this premise, I ask why should Christians preach, if by preaching they are opening the possibility of people rejecting doctrines that Christians may consider essential for salvation.

If you don't share the opening premise, then my question will not make sense for you. It will be irrelevant. That's all.
I hope you understand what I mean. Please accept my apologies for not having been as clear as I should.

I understand your premise, and your questions, and the motivation behind it all. You have been very clear in your comments, and I want to be equally clear: without Christ Jesus, EVERYONE is lost. And the ONLY way to be saved is through Jesus (not islam, not buddah, not the jw religion, not mormon, and all the other religious traditions).

 

[atpollard]

The premise of the thread is that the vast majority of Christians do believe that people who live in ignorance will be judged according to the knowledge they had. It is under this premise that I would like to trigger a discussion.
If you don't share this premise... that is, if you think that our loving God will send people who live in ignorance to an eternal torment, then perhaps the thread is not for you.

I would question the definition of the term "ignorance". If one KNOWS the information contained in the basic Gospel Message

1. God is Holy and condemns sin.
2. People are sinful and forever separated from a Holy God.
3. Christ is God incarnate and He died and rose again to restore Sinful Men to communion with a Holy God.
4. We must do something about these facts: Romans 10:9-10 [NLT] "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved."

... and one CHOOSES to believe something else, then one is not "ignorant". One has merely REJECTED the truth.

Romans 1:21-22 [NLT] "Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools."

Acts 4:12 [NLT] "There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved."

 

[atpollard]

As a non-Christian, I believe Christians have very noble and powerful reasons to preach Christ to non-believers.
However, before sharing my opinion, I would like to know yours.

John 3:18-20 [NLT] "There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: God's light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed."

The only way to avoid the "wages of sin" (for which they as non-Christians already stand condemned) is through the GOSPEL ...

Romans 10:13-15 [NLT] For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved." But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, "How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!"

So we must at least tell them the Good News, or they have no chance to believe in HIM.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I would question the definition of the term "ignorance". If one KNOWS the information contained in the basic Gospel Message

1. God is Holy and condemns sin.
2. People are sinful and forever separated from a Holy God.
3. Christ is God incarnate and He died and rose again to restore Sinful Men to communion with a Holy God.
4. We must do something about these facts: Romans 10:9-10 [NLT] "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved."

... and one CHOOSES to believe something else, then one is not "ignorant". One has merely REJECTED the truth.

But then, how would you define doctrinal ignorance, atpollard?
Perhaps it is easier if you provide examples of people or circumstances which you would consider ignorant and therefore objects of God's mercy.

 

[atpollard]

But then, how would you define doctrinal ignorance, atpollard?
Perhaps it is easier if you provide examples of people or circumstances which you would consider ignorant and therefore objects of God's mercy.

Sure, let's start with a group that I have some knowledge of ... the Uyghurs of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in Northwest China. They are ethnically Turkish, religiously Muslim, speak their own language, and are an oppressed minority within China. There currently exists no GOSPEL in the Uyghur language and the overwhelming majority do not speak Mandarin (like the rest of China). They are a modern unreached people group.

• Does that mean all Uyghur get a free pass on sin? Nope, God still condemns sin.
• Does that mean all Uyghur getto heaven via an alternative path (without Jesus Christ)? Nope, there is still only one mediator between God and man.
• Does that mean all Uyghur are damned? Nope, we have Romans 1 and 2:
  • Romans 1:18-20 [NLT] "But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God." ... They have TRUTH revealed by CREATION.
  • Romans 2:14-16 [NLT] "Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. And this is the message I proclaim--that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone's secret life."

So what does that mean? It means the Uyghur are "ignorant" of "doctrinal truth".
That places them HERE:

• Ephesians 2:1-3 [NLT] "Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil--the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God's anger, just like everyone else."

without the benefit of THIS:

• Acts 2:37-41 [NLT] Peter's words pierced their hearts, and they said to him and to the other apostles, "Brothers, what should we do?" Peter replied, "Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is to you, and to your children, and even to the Gentiles--all who have been called by the Lord our God." Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation!" Those who believed what Peter said were baptized and added to the church that day--about 3,000 in all

That just leaves them THIS:

• Hebrews 10:30-31 [NLT] For we know the one who said, "I will take revenge. I will pay them back." He also said, "The LORD will judge his own people." It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
• Romans 9:15-16 [NLT] For God said to Moses, "I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose." So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.

Thus the far better path of ... Romans 10:8-15 [NLT]
In fact, it says, "The message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart." And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced." Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."
But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, "How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!"

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Sure, let's start with a group that I have some knowledge of ... the Uyghurs of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in Northwest China. They are ethnically Turkish, religiously Muslim, speak their own language, and are an oppressed minority within China. There currently exists no GOSPEL in the Uyghur language and the overwhelming majority do not speak Mandarin (like the rest of China). They are a modern unreached people group.

• Does that mean all Uyghur get a free pass on sin? Nope, God still condemns sin.
• Does that mean all Uyghur getto heaven via an alternative path (without Jesus Christ)? Nope, there is still only one mediator between God and man.
• Does that mean all Uyghur are damned? Nope, we have Romans 1 and 2:
  • Romans 1:18-20 [NLT] "But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God." ... They have TRUTH revealed by CREATION.
  • Romans 2:14-16 [NLT] "Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. And this is the message I proclaim--that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone's secret life."

So what does that mean? It means the Uyghur are "ignorant" of "doctrinal truth".
That places them HERE:

• Ephesians 2:1-3 [NLT] "Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil--the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God's anger, just like everyone else."

without the benefit of THIS:

• Acts 2:37-41 [NLT] Peter's words pierced their hearts, and they said to him and to the other apostles, "Brothers, what should we do?" Peter replied, "Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is to you, and to your children, and even to the Gentiles--all who have been called by the Lord our God." Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation!" Those who believed what Peter said were baptized and added to the church that day--about 3,000 in all

That just leaves them THIS:

• Hebrews 10:30-31 [NLT] For we know the one who said, "I will take revenge. I will pay them back." He also said, "The LORD will judge his own people." It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
• Romans 9:15-16 [NLT] For God said to Moses, "I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose." So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.

Thus the far better path of ... Romans 10:8-15 [NLT]
In fact, it says, "The message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart." And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced." Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."
But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, "How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!"

Thanks for this example. I love examples and scenarios, atpollard.
I was following your reasoning but then I got lost.
According to the passages you have quoted from Romans, Uyghrus know about God through his revelation in the creation, and in what Paul calls his insctincts or the ability God gave them to "instinctly" follow his Law.*

That Uyghurs are in the plan of God is in line with what Paul told de pagan Athenians in the Aeropagus. God have created men and fixed the times and geographies so that they could reach out for God, even groping, and somehow find Him.

This is why Paul could sleep at night, without thinking that the distant people from Hispania, Galia o Brittania, that he would never visit in his lifetime, would be judged according to God's revelation in nature and their minds. God had set every nation in due place and time so that He could be reached out and found. I don't recall Paul getting neurotic or psychotic on the idea of millions of people from all nations being tortured forever.

By the same token, God informed Peter that He had just, God-fearing people in all nations, like Cornelius. Cornelius was not the only one that found grace in the eyes of God. Cornelius happend to live close to Peter, but what about the other God-fearing people in the Galias, Hispania, Germania or Britania?
So, Peter could also sleep at night well, and didn't get neurotic or psychotic. Nor do I recall God teletransporting thousands of disciples instantly to the four corners of the world so that everyone could hear about Jesus. Furthermore, I don't recall God sending prophets urging Israel to send missionaries all over the world in order to persuade them to believe in a future Messiah.

OK. So far, so good. I think you get my point.
Then, once established this context, you seem to quote the other verses as if Uyghurs were damned, when you first say that not all of them are damned. Could you please elaborate?

*NOTE: I must add that Uyghurs, in terms of doctrinal knowledge of God, are light years ahead from polytheistic barbarians: they know they must worship One God, and surrender their lives to Him, and they even know that God sent messengers and Jesus, who they revere. ​

 

[TomL]

Yes, of course.
Love does not distinguish between good brothers and bad brothers. Jesus asked us to love even our enemies, didn't he?
To illustrate this, Jesus asked us to think how God behaves with all men, making rain and sun bless the good and the bad.

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. (Matthew 5:43-45)​

As I said, this does not mean that we join the persons we love in practicing something evil... but this principle applies to any person, not only to satanist. Do we agree? For example, within your own church, TomL, you may know people who you wouldn't like to join in practicing something they practice.... or viceversa. You may be a bad example in some aspect of your life, that you wouldn't like other Christians brothers to follow.

No person in this Forum is deprived from the love of God, Our Father, and no person in this Forum should be deprived of the love of Forum members, even if we disagree with some aspects of their beliefs or behaviors.

Loving your enemies does not make them your spiritual brothers

2 Corinthians 6:14 (LEB) — 14 Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers, for what participation is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Loving your enemies does not make them your spiritual brothers

I have a sister. We were a small family: just two siblings. I love her regardless of all our many differences in temper, preferences, and opinions. I love her despite her faults and failures.
She loves me the same way… despite our differences, my faults and failures.
So we are kind to each other. We listen to each other, we forgive each other and support each other.
She’s not a Baha’i. She’s not religious, as a matter of fact. She barely believes in a Supreme Being.

Do you have in your life any person you love that way, who does not share your theological views?

2 Corinthians 6:14 (LEB) — 14 Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers, for what participation is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness?

How do you apply 2 Cor 6:14 in your daily life?
What kind of fellowship do you have in your daily life with persons of other religions or without a religion?

My wife considers herself an atheist. She does not believe in God mainly because of the philosophical problem of evil.
However, she respects my religious beliefs and practices so much, that sometimes she has actively helped me to withstand temptations and be consistent with my convictions in the middle of social pressure. I could say that she was an important factor for me becoming a Baha’i. My wife shows me love every single day, despite my faults and failures. I love her deeply despite she says she does not believe in God.

 

[TomL]

I have a sister. We were a small family: just two siblings. I love her regardless of all our many differences in temper, preferences, and opinions. I love her despite her faults and failures.
She loves me the same way… despite our differences, my faults and failures.
So we are kind to each other. We listen to each other, we forgive each other and support each other.
She’s not a Baha’i. She’s not religious, as a matter of fact. She barely believes in a Supreme Being.

Do you have in your life any person you love that way, who does not share your theological views?

I do not have any Satanists or Christ deniers I would call my spiritual brother

How do you apply 2 Cor 6:14 in your daily life?
What kind of fellowship do you have in your daily life with persons of other religions or without a religion?

My wife considers herself an atheist. She does not believe in God mainly because of the philosophical problem of evil.
However, she respects my religious beliefs and practices so much, that sometimes she has actively helped me to withstand temptations and be consistent with my convictions in the middle of social pressure. I could say that she was an important factor for me becoming a Baha’i. My wife shows me love every single day, despite my faults and failures. I love her deeply despite she says she does not believe in God.

The command of 2 Cor 6:14 is clear

2 Corinthians 6:14 (NASB95) — 14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?


We are not to be unequally yoked. So we do not enter into relationships where we would be so bound

If we find ourselves in such a relation in marriage

1 Corinthians 7:10–16 (LEB) — 10 To the married I command—not I, but the Lord—a wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if indeed she does separate, she must remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. 12 Now to the rest I say—not the Lord—if any brother has an unbelieving wife and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if any wife has an unbelieving husband and he consents to live with her, she must not divorce her husband. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the brother, since otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him leave. The brother or the sister is not bound in such cases. But God has called us in peace. 16 For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?