Why are Calvinists so mean ?

[TomL]

Well I have a question for you. It's this, How could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

You might say well that's what Tom just asked you. Yes and I've been asking you this too over and over and over again. I do think you make a Good Poster Child for someone who holds to Never, Ever, Ever be put in the position of being put on the defensive no matter what come what may! It does come across as embarrassing for you when you claim the theological structure in which you've put your faith in is swept away by truth but you claim it still stands....and yet all you're holding is a door knob.

I'd encourage you just to accept the truth. There are many, many things that ARE NOT ordained for is they were God would have thought about it first. Jer 32 states there are various things he did not ordain. Even one thing causes Calvinism to collapse.

He just cannot bring himself to accept the truth

 

[Presby02]

The question is how could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

There is nothing that could come to mind with a omniscient being.

 

[Presby02]

Well I have a question for you. It's this, How could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

You might say well that's what Tom just asked you. Yes and I've been asking you this too over and over and over again. I do think you make a Good Poster Child for someone who holds to Never, Ever, Ever be put in the position of being put on the defensive no matter what come what may! It does come across as embarrassing for you when you claim the theological structure in which you've put your faith in is swept away by truth but you claim it still stands....and yet all you're holding is a door knob.

I'd encourage you just to accept the truth. There are many, many things that ARE NOT ordained for is they were God would have thought about it first. Jer 32 states there are various things he did not ordain. Even one thing causes Calvinism to collapse.

The word "ordain" is not found in Jer. 32.

I gave a example of God determining something that He would never command. You simply ignore it. I only need one example to blow your faulty premise out if the water. For you, it's back to the drawing board. Try to do better. You make it to easy.

I encourage you to accept that fact and the truth.

 

[Rockson]

The word "ordain" is not found in Jer. 32.

Well congratulations. You've just acknowledged EVERYTHING is not ordained or determined by God to have happened beforehand. You're not longer a Calvinist. Now don't get scared and try to jump back to the other side of the fence. Stay with and pursue this new found way of thinking.

 

[TomL]

There is nothing that could come to mind with a omniscient being.

TomL said:
The question is how could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

God stated it did not come into his mind that they should do it

Jeremiah 32:35 (KJV 1900) — 35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.


please stop the dodging

 

[Presby02]

TomL said:
The question is how could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

God stated it did not come into his mind that they should do it

Jeremiah 32:35 (KJV 1900) — 35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.


please stop the dodging

Exactly. Just as it would never come to His mind to command the murder of His own Son. But He did plan and determine it.

 

[Presby02]

Well congratulations. You've just acknowledged EVERYTHING is not ordained or determined by God to have happened beforehand. You're not longer a Calvinist. Now don't get scared and try to jump back to the other side of the fence. Stay with and pursue this new found way of thinking.

LOL, so because it's not found in one paticular verse not all things are ordained? There some sound reasoning for you.

I would also add you brought up ordained not I.

You need practice

 

[TomL]

Exactly. Just as it would never come to His mind to command the murder of His own Son. But He did plan and determine it.

Preby02 continues to dodge and alters the argument

The question is how could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

God stated it did not come into his mind that they should do it

Jeremiah 32:35 (KJV 1900) — 35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.


please stop the dodging

 

[Presby02]

Preby02 continues to dodge and alters the argument

The question is how could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

God stated it did not come into his mind that they should do it

Jeremiah 32:35 (KJV 1900) — 35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.


please stop the dodging

Acts 4:27,28 God planning and determining something He would never command. I guess repeating yourself ad nauseum is how it works here.

 

[civic]

The question is how could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

Impossible notice the dodging and evasion rather than dealing with the issue that reveals the inconsistency in their position. It’s a bold contradiction and defies the laws of logic and even common sense.

 

[Presby02]

Impossible notice the dodging and evasion rather than dealing with the issue that reveals the inconsistency in their position. It’s a bold contradiction and defies the laws of logic and even common sense.

Acts 4:27,28. Something that woukd never come into the mind of God yet He plans and determines it to occur.

Thwarted again

 

[civic]

Acts 4:27,28. Something that woukd never come into the mind of God yet He plans and determines it to occur.

Thwarted again

Nope that’s a unique one time event in human history and the entire purpose for Christs first coming .

Next fallacy

hope this helps !!!

 

[Presby02]

Nope that’s a unique one time event in human history and the entire purpose for Christs first coming .

Next fallacy

hope this helps !!!

Who said it's unique in the way God operates? Got quotes?

Watch this folks

And let's say it was
God still planned and determined something that would never come into His mind to command. Another faulty premise shot down in flames.

 

[TomL]

Impossible notice the dodging and evasion rather than dealing with the issue that reveals the inconsistency in their position. It’s a bold contradiction and defies the laws of logic and even common sense.

Yep It's the Calvinist way

 

[atpollard]

ell I have a question for you. It's this, How could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

Foreknowledge (as in omniscience, not the relational "foreknew" of salvation). Look to Romans 1:18 to the end. It does not come as a shock to God that when He lifts His restraint and "gives them over", that they do the evil desires that were in their heart. God did not create those evil desires, except in the sense that God defines good and sin is actions contrary to the nature of God, but God was in complete control of restraining or permitting them ... According to His plan. [See Joseph for an example of evil men following evil desires to accomplish the plan predestined by God].

 

[TomL]

Acts 4:27,28 God planning and determining something He would never command. I guess repeating yourself ad nauseum is how it works here.

Preby02 continues to dodge and alters the argument

The question is how could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

note the text states it did not enter his mind thatthey should do it

It does not state it did not enter his mind to command they do it

as the spion of Presby02 puts it

God stated it did not come into his mind that they should do it

Jeremiah 32:35 (KJV 1900) — 35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.


please stop the dodging

 

[TomL]

Foreknowledge (as in omniscience, not the relational "foreknew" of salvation). Look to Romans 1:18 to the end. It does not come as a shock to God that when He lifts His restraint and "gives them over", that they do the evil desires that were in their heart. God did not create those evil desires, except in the sense that God defines good and sin is actions contrary to the nature of God, but God was in complete control of restraining or permitting them ... According to His plan. [See Joseph for an example of evil men following evil desires to accomplish the plan predestined by God].

You do not seem to be answering the question

How could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

 

[Rockson]

God did not create those evil desires, except in the sense that God defines good and sin is actions contrary to the nature of God, but God was in complete control of restraining or permitting them ... According to His plan. [See Joseph for an example of evil men following evil desires to accomplish the plan predestined by God].

Sorry but you're still off the rails here.

You're saying all things were happened according to his plan. That's having a thought about it before it happened. Jer 32:35 --->neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination
You can't therefore have the occurrence of Jer 32 as a part of his plan. It never entered his mind that they should do, that they should do, that they should do this abomination.

Sorry but Calvinism therefore collapses.

 

[Presby02]

You do not seem to be answering the question

How could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

Easy. See Acts 4:27,28

 

[Presby02]

Preby02 continues to dodge and alters the argument

The question is how could God determine someone to do something without it coming into his mind that they should do it

note the text states it did not enter his mind thatthey should do it

It does not state it did not enter his mind to command they do it

as the spion of Presby02 puts it

God stated it did not come into his mind that they should do it

Jeremiah 32:35 (KJV 1900) — 35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.


please stop the dodging

Acts 4:27,28 prime example