jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I love Jesus.
Exegesis and Eisegesis. What Are These Terms?
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
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Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
In regard to the topic in discussion, what do you mean by "the same"?
The same understanding you have about the destruction that awaits all non-Hebrews because Hashem does not love them?
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
This Jesus that you love stated that Ninevites did repent. They hadn't tricked God. Their repentance was of such relevance to Jesus, that He said they would judge the people of Israel who rejected Him. So, Jesus was talking about salvation.
This Jesus that you love praised the faith of the centurion, without making any allusion to a mixed Hebrew heritage, but stressing the opposite: that the centurion was no part of the House of Israel.
This Jesus that you love presented God as showing love in the form of rain and sunshine over all people, good and bad. To my knowledge, China also got rain and sunshine.
This Jesus you love didn't present the good Samaritan as feeling compassion on the basis of a shared genetic basis, but on the basis of love for a wounded man.
This Jesus you love asked His Father on the cross to forgive the Roman soldiers who casted lots on his garments, appealing not to a mixed genetic heritage, but to their innocence based on ignorance.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
That's the way young David saw it. He knew who he was and who God was, and that Goliath and those uncircumcised Philistines were the enemies of God. Did Goliath come against young David in the Name of the LORD? Or did David come against Goliath in the Name (and all it represents) of the LORD?
Choose wisely.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Those Philistines were enemies of God because what the wicked things they did against Israel, and not because of their genes.
There is proof in the Bible that Israel coexisted peacefully with those who did not oppose Israel.
So, going back to the case of modern Hebrews, the vast majority of them (I suppose 99.99%) firmly reject your view and find it alien to Judaism and the Tanakh.
There is no other way available for you, jeremiah1five, but to come to the loving arms of The Father, and stop suffering.
Seek a group of Messianic Jews. Seek a group of Christians. Ask for advice. Pray, weep, play with kids. The Father is ready to welcome you back.
Is that consistent with your Baha'i worldview
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
They were enemies of God because they were NOT in covenant with God. Learn the bible but learn it correctly.
Ha! That's what you think. Why do you supposed Jesus called Gentiles' "dogs"? (a derogatory word.)
He also called them "goats" and "swine." Imagine that!
LOL. Really, now. Coming from a false worshiper of a false eastern god.
Where?
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
My God is not false and here is the proof: My God loves the Congolese and will save them.
You god is false and here is the proof: Your god does not love the Congolese and will not save them.
God by definition is good. Since your god is evil, then it is a false god. I beg you to reject it immediately.
If you forgot the lesson you learnt at home, I encourage you to re-learn it now. Repeat after me and reflect:
There is no truth in evil.
There is no truth in evil.
There is no truth in evil.
There is no truth in evil.
There is no truth in evil.
There is no truth in evil.
There is no truth in evil.
There is no truth in evil.
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
God loves and God hates. God's love is sovereign, and God's hate is sovereign.
God loves ONLY the Hebrew people who are the seed of Abraham BECASUE He made/has covenant with Abraham and his seed.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Deuteronomy 7:7–8.
God's love is predicated upon His Promises. If God loves "you" He will save "you." If God doesn't love "you" Giod will not save you. That is the truth of Deuteronomy 7:7-8.
And because of the oath He made with the "fathers" (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) to deliver the children of Israel out of the 'house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt," God set His love upon Abraham and his Hebrew seed and BECAUSE of the promises He made to them. God, it says, [has] redeemed you (the children of Israel) from the hand of Pharaoh thus evidencing His love for THEM.
God made NO PROMISES like this to any non-Hebrew Gentiles. The Scripture, the bible we have today, are Hebrew Scriptures. There is no Congolese Scriptures, thus the Congolese do not abide in God's love. The Congolese and every non-Hebrew Gentiles that are not Abraham's seed
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:10.
The truth of the matter is this despite your attempts to add to the bible or change the bible to include the Congolese or any other non-Hebrew people in God's covenants and His love. Israel is the apple of God's eye. Israel is betrothed to God and are His Bride, a Bride for whom Jesus died to atone and redeem for ONLY THE HEBREWS have covenant with God Almighty and BECASE of these covenant promises the children of Israel abide in God's love and God's love abides on them.
The Scripture - the bible - is a record of beginnings and of the beginnings of the Hebrew people to whom God made promises and promises to save. There is no Congolese Scriptures and there are no covenant promises God gave to the Congolese. The central actors in this historical record From Genesis to Revelation are the Hebrew children of Israel. Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Solomon, David, and even king Saul, these are only a couple of Hebrew people with whom God shares intimate relationship with. And there is no record anywhere on the face of the earth where there are Congolese Scriptures or covenant promises between God and non-Hebrew Congolese. None whatsoever. So, you make things up that contradict God and the plan He made for the children Abraham. It is an undeniable fact that the Hebrew people God saved out of the "house of bondmen' and 'out of the hand of Pharaoh the king' have God's love abiding in their lives. The Hebrew people were commanded in the Old Covenant Scripture to abide in God's love and the Hebrew people are commanded in the New Covenant Scripture to abide in the love of His own Son, Jesus Christ.
Everything in the bible is about God and His relationship with the Hebrew people. And just as it says in Deuteronomy 7:7-8. And this is one Scripture passage among hundreds of Scripture passages that declare God's love for the Hebrew people and ONLY the Hebrew people. IF God loves "you" God is bound by His Promises TO save "you." That is the whole purpose of the Hebrew Scripture. It is a history of the Hebrew people and of God's love for THEM. And ONLY them. I accept this. I don't add to the bible to change it into a narrative which has no biblical support as you do. But you've fallen for false Gentile theology that gets in the way of God's truth and will lead you straight into damnation for God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles and in this is the evidence that God does not love 'Congolese' or any other non-Hebrew Gentile people. Lies and liars do not have the kingdom of God abiding in them. These shall not inherit the kingdom of God and everything in this economy of God's salvation which is OF THE JEWS.
Saul's declaration the "all Israel shall be saved."
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:26–27.
And like Moses, this Deliverer like unto Moses - did exactly what He promised Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's Hebrew seed, the children of Israel: He delivered them. And God did it through covenant, through promises he made to Abraham (Isaac and Jacob.)
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
Genesis 15:12–14.
God never prophesied anything like this to the Congolese, never did anything like this for the Congolese, nor has God saved anyone who is Congolese. God doesn't love the Congolese. If He did, then there would be a covenant with the Congolese as well as declarations of love from God upon the Congolese because of that covenant. God is not a sinner. God is not an adulterer. There are ONLY TWO seeds upon the earth: the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent. God loves only ONE SEED. God is not an adulterer. God only loves the seed of the woman. God has only ONE Bride: The children of Israel.
This is an historical covenant between God, Abram the Hebrew, and Abram the Hebrews' Hebrew seed and only they get to be delivered just as promised in Deuteronomy 7:7-8.
God is Good by nature, not by definition. And it is not evil for God to love only the Hebrew people and have no love for non-Hebrew Gentiles. There is nothing wrong with this. But you go ahead and lean on your own understanding in the vanity of your mind, and I will continue to lean on God's Word. God is Sovereign to love whom He desires and I do not complain nor fault God for the choices He makes. Your attitude of trying to tell God who He can love and who He cannot love is only your arrogance and pride.
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Romans 9:20–23.
The above passage makes it clear God loves one people and hates another people, that He loves His elect and hates those not elect. God makes one people for honor and another people for dishonor, to make one people vessels of His wrath and another people for mercy. That is what Saul is communicating.
There is a great deal of truth in evil. Just as there is a great deal of truth in good. There was nothing wrong with the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. But there was a great deal of evil in the man and woman who disobeyed God and ate from the tree which was forbidden them.
You lean upon your own understanding - even as it flies in the face of God's truth instead you should trust and rely on what God has revealed in His Word. YOU think to tell God who to love and who to hate. This comes from arrogance and pride.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
When I say that there is no truth in evil, I'm not talking about evil made by evil-doers, but evil made by God and those who claim to love God.
So, if I bring a text that I consider sacred, and the text says that God requires you to kill the gypsy, you have the moral obligation to reject such text and such god, because it is evil. You will do it not because you are arrogant, but because you are wise.
Your claims that Gentiles to whom the gospel was being preached were Hellenized, hybrid Hebrews, have been refuted, since you have been able to provide a shred of evidence on how, if that was so important, God did not provide the apostles with DNA testing, or genealogical documents or any set of instructions to tell who had the right genes and who didn't.
Your claims that God is cool when, in fact, your god is obviously evil, may be the sign of a psychopathy that I beg you to take care of with a proper health professional.
I guess our readers have enough evidence of the lack of historicity and logical support for your claims on a salvation based on ethnicity.
They have also some intuitions of your mental state.
Since I cannot help you with this, I will stop addressing you directly, my brother.
You have sent me to hell. I am sending you, first to the psychiatrist, but also to heaven. I am sure you will enjoy God's paradise as He loves you so much and understands you even better than you understand yourself.
I will pray today for God to bless you according to his sovereign wisdom and love.
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
You're referring to the Quran which does instruct Jihadists and all Muslims to kill infidels and anyone not Muslim.
The Hebrew Scripture does not make any claim or instruction to kill Gentiles - Congolese or otherwise.
Its focus is on the Israelites and God's instruction and instruction to the children of Israel on who to love, which is their fellow Jews.
So, here you have the seed of Abraham called the children of Jacob or Israel. God gave the Hebrews His Law under which to live by and one of those Laws concerns the command to love their fellow Hebrews. God never instructs or commands the Hebrew people to go and kill someone, but God does instruct the Jews on who to love and the command on who to love is fellow Jews. There is no instruction or command to the Jews to hate or kill anyone except in time of war and Promised Land occupation such as the instruction and command of God to Joshua to enter Canaan and destroy and eradicate everyone who is living in the land God promised to Abraham and his seed - everyone, man, women, teens, children, toddlers, infants and babies in the womb, and to do it with extreme prejudice.
There was no need for DNA testing. Jews knew they were Jews who were of mixed heritage. But they grew up for many generations and they lived in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek customs and standards. They were the ones Saul was addressing in Ephesians 2:
ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Eph 2:12.
Gentiles were never strangers from the commonwealth of Israel because the Law did not apply to them in the first place. The Ephesian letter and all the other Sauline letters were addressed to mixed heritage Hebrews in Asia Minor who were the inheritors of the Abrahamic covenant promises. Saul would never say what he said in his letters to non-Hebrew Gentiles because as a rabbi and Pharisee he knows that only the Hebrew people were under the Law and the covenants of God. IF Saul ever tried to add Gentiles into the covenants God made with the Hebrew people, he would be in grave error and be shunned - even killed - if he were to do such a thing. ALL HEBREWS KNEW that only the Hebrews were possessors of God's inheritance. There is no Jew anytime and anywhere who tried to teach or circumcise non-Hebrews to become included in the Hebrew covenants. The Hebrew Scripture beginning with the Abraham covenant up to and including the New Covenant included only Hebrews and Abrahams seed. There is nowhere in the bible when the covenants were made that included non-Hebrew Gentiles. NONE. NOWHERE.
The adding of Gentiles ignores the fact that when the covenants were made and recorded that no non-Hebrews were even named or mentioned as being in the Hebrew covenants. Not only that but misinterpretations reign supreme because Gentiles do not know how to interpret the New Covenant Scripture so that it does not break or violate the Old Covenant Scripture.
Putting darkness for light is what you are doing because of your lack of knowledge as well as not being a born-again believer but someone who follows the eastern Baha'i religion trying to pass judgment on the Scripture as an unbeliever. Your lack of knowledge only reveals to me you're not brethren and that we do not have the same Father.
Joshua went into Canaan and wiped out everyone living there in order to occupy the land. His command to do so was given to him by God. Is Joshua's God therefore "evil" because God made such a command and Joshua fulfilled it?
By your reckoning that is exactly what you are saying.
I practice exegesis while you on the other hand practice eisegesis.
I take out what is found in Scripture, and you add things that are not in Scripture into Scripture.
Don't call me "brother." You and I do not have the same Father. Do not join me to a harlot which is what your bastardized eastern religion is. Illegitimate.
I'm not sending you anywhere, especially "hell." That is what God does, not me. So, is God evil for sending non-Hebrew Gentiles to "hell"? God has no covenant with Gentiles. Gentiles are without salvation according to God and His Word.
