The Poverty : Gospel

[Bronson]

Again what you posted, has no relationship to reality. @Bronson

So, let me show you what happens if you don't obey Hebrews 13:9.

This verse teaches that you must establish your heart with "Grace".

If you own a Bible, read the verse..

Now, What is that = Grace?
That is the understanding that Jesus is Salvation, Jesus is Eternal Life.. Jesus is The Resurrection, and Jesus is Sanctification, and Jesus is Redemptions.... and all that has no relationship to water, works, or confessing sin or trying to keep law and commandments.

And when a believer does not get their heart of REAL FAITH, established in God's Grace, as instructed by Hebrews 13:9.... then a "doctrine of devils"... will get your mind., and you'll end up in a cult theology as your belief system.

Thank you again for proving my point in once again taking Hebrews 13:9 out of context. If you have access to a bible or If you are able to find one online. Try reading it and let soak into your mind.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-poverty-gospel.1663/post-77453

 

[Behold]

Thank you again for proving my point in once again taking Hebrews 13:9 out of context.

Just do what the verse says to do with your heart, and try not to let your opinion always run your faith.

And one more for you..

Paul told you to do this...

Philippians 3:17.

= Start now.

 

[koberstein]

Reader,


Lets say that a young mother ......is not born again, and they have 6 young children.
She is 25 yrs old, and her husband left her, after #6 was yet to be born.
Two of the Children are Twins., the boys...... and 4 are little girls.
'Mary" is dirt poor and on food stamps....and the children are dressed in rags, none of them are over 6, and often they are barefoot in the winter.

So, on one side of Mary, is a Christian family, who believes that if they are starving (and so are their 3 children), then that is a "Godly sign of Spirituality".
They teach and preach the "poverty gospel" as their faith, even tho the Bible teaches that "Poverty is the destruction of the poor".

On the other side of Mary, is a family of Believers, and they have been blessed abundantly beyond measure, and they give some of their money into the work of God, and He's keeps giving them more of His money, through them.
They have the favor of God on them, and Jesus said, I have come to "give you life, and that more abundantly".

So, Mary the young single mother, and her 6 children, need a new furnace., and its winter and they are very cold in their wood frame house that has no funace heat.

1.) So, she goes to the "poverty gospel Christians" and says...>"can you help us"?
And the Poverty Gospel Christians say...>"...oh...would that we could..... but we have nothing we can give you, and we too are freezing every winter, but God is well pleased.. and ... God bless.""""".

And Mary says......'"ummmm, ok, thanks".

2.) Then Mary goes to the other Christian neighbors, and says... "Can you help me and my children, we are so cold"'..
And the Christian man and wife invite her in for a moment, and they listen... and they say......" Mary, hon....you are coming here to stay with us, right now.....and your children also. And we'll put sleeping bags on the carpeted floors and find a way to keep us all warm, and tomorrow, we'll call the Furnace Specialist and have them come and repair... or put in a new furnace in for you, and we'll see about helping you pay off your mortgage also.. And we'll go shopping tomorrow for some socks and shoes for your kids"...Now Mary, we are here for you, we are your new family, because God loves you and so do we.".


Now reader.

Are you paying attention?

Then....You've already seen what i wanted you to see.

- God bless.

I seen the poverty gospel also practiced at Baptist churches. I reacted the way the other family in your article. A poor woman who is a good friend of ours attended this Baptist church with her late husband for decades. The poor woman was wearing 15 year old hearing aids and was stone deaf. She couldn't afford new hearing aids and went to her church for help in getting new hearing aids. There said they couldn't afford to help her at all. It wasn't in their budget. Upon hearing this we took the woman to the hearing aid specialist that my wife goes to for a hearing test. The test revealed that her hearing was worse than she imagined. I told her to select new hearing aides that she felt comfortable with that cost was not an issue. My wife and I paid for her new hearing aids that day. I believe it blessed us more than it did her. I believe everyone should do a Mitzvah (a good deed) and maybe our world would be a better place to live.
Shalom

 

[Behold]

I seen the poverty gospel also practiced at Baptist churches. I reacted the way the other family in your article. A poor woman who is a good friend of ours attended this Baptist church with her late husband for decades. The poor woman was wearing 15 year old hearing aids and was stone deaf. She couldn't afford new hearing aids and went to her church for help in getting new hearing aids. There said they couldn't afford to help her at all. It wasn't in their budget. Upon hearing this we took the woman to the hearing aid specialist that my wife goes to for a hearing test. The test revealed that her hearing was worse than she imagined. I told her to select new hearing aides that she felt comfortable with that cost was not an issue. My wife and I paid for her new hearing aids that day. I believe it blessed us more than it did her. I believe everyone should do a Mitzvah (a good deed) and maybe our world would be a better place to live.
Shalom

Shalom,Shalom

Thank you for showing the Old Woman God's love.

And What you do for others, God will do for you....as that is how He does it, and it will manifest according to your need, in the right season.

Also....There is a lot of PRIDE that pretends to be "spirituality" within the walls of many churches and on Forums as well.


My Thread is just pointing out the fake, who are trying to, of their own self righteousness, be deemed more spiritual, and in fact, they are deemed less, as God knows their heart.

God our Father has no issue with wealth, and prosperity......and in fact, all our money, and everything we own is God's......and we just get to use it.
So, when we are prosperous, then that is HIS Prosperity that we are getting to enjoy.
And when we GIVE something to someone.....We are giving what belongs to God ... to them......and that is why He blesses it back to the giver.

God makes everything GROW.....with LIFE......and that includes HIS MONEY into our lives.

The Richest Man who ever lived was King David's Son.....Soloman,
And God Gave HIM the Wealth.

The verse says, that "its God who gives us power to get WEALTH", so that we came take God's wealth and be a BLESSING to others, as we have been blessed to do it.

We establish God's love in the hearts of unbelievers when we do for them, as God would have us give.

"well what if they are not good people".

Right.
God knows that better then we know it, and he said."Give to the poor"...

 

[koberstein]

Shalom,Shalom

Thank you for showing the Old Woman God's love.

And What you do for others, God will do for you....as that is how He does it, and it will manifest according to your need, in the right season.

Also....There is a lot of PRIDE that pretends to be "spirituality" within the walls of many churches and on Forums as well.


My Thread is just pointing out the fake, who are trying to, of their own self righteousness, be deemed more spiritual, and in fact, they are deemed less, as God knows their heart.

God our Father has no issue with wealth, and prosperity......and in fact, all our money, and everything we own is God's......and we just get to use it.
So, when we are prosperous, then that is HIS Prosperity that we are getting to enjoy.
And when we GIVE something to someone.....We are giving what belongs to God ... to them......and that is why He blesses it back to the giver.

God makes everything GROW.....with LIFE......and that includes HIS MONEY into our lives.

The Richest Man who ever lived was King David's Son.....Soloman,
And God Gave HIM the Wealth.

The verse says, that "its God who gives us power to get WEALTH", so that we came take God's wealth and be a BLESSING to others, as we have been blessed to do it.

We establish God's love in the hearts of unbelievers when we do for them, as God would have us give.

"well what if they are not good people".

Right.
God knows that better then we know it, and he said."Give to the poor"...

We don't own anything. Adonai owns it all and we are managers of His blessings. When we are good managers then He will bless us with more to the manage. We can be called into account at anytime.
Shalom

 

[Behold]

We don't own anything. Adonai owns it all and we are managers of His blessings. When we are good managers then He will bless us with more to the manage. We can be called into account at anytime.
Shalom

Yes.

Its interesting that most Protestant Churches, do not know that "giving to the poor", will bring God's help to you, when you are sick.

There are a lot of promises in the Bible, and none of them went away when Messiah was slain for the sin of the world.

Also, "sowing and reaping", is the same thing.......and that one is a double edged sword, as, it comes for the sower, no matter if they sow for good or for evil.
And that is not God Judging... that is the person reaping.. what they've sown.

 

[koberstein]

Shalom,Shalom

Thank you for showing the Old Woman God's love.

And What you do for others, God will do for you....as that is how He does it, and it will manifest according to your need, in the right season.

Also....There is a lot of PRIDE that pretends to be "spirituality" within the walls of many churches and on Forums as well.


My Thread is just pointing out the fake, who are trying to, of their own self righteousness, be deemed more spiritual, and in fact, they are deemed less, as God knows their heart.

God our Father has no issue with wealth, and prosperity......and in fact, all our money, and everything we own is God's......and we just get to use it.
So, when we are prosperous, then that is HIS Prosperity that we are getting to enjoy.
And when we GIVE something to someone.....We are giving what belongs to God ... to them......and that is why He blesses it back to the giver.

God makes everything GROW.....with LIFE......and that includes HIS MONEY into our lives.

The Richest Man who ever lived was King David's Son.....Soloman,
And God Gave HIM the Wealth.

The verse says, that "its God who gives us power to get WEALTH", so that we came take God's wealth and be a BLESSING to others, as we have been blessed to do it.

We establish God's love in the hearts of unbelievers when we do for them, as God would have us give.

"well what if they are not good people".

Right.
God knows that better then we know it, and he said."Give to the poor"...

Unfortunately the church failed its mantra of taking care of orphans and widows as outlined in the New Testament. This poor woman had tears streaming down her face when she thanked us. She said nobody has ever done anything like that for me.

 

[Behold]

Unfortunately the church failed its mantra of taking care of orphans and widows as outlined in the New Testament. This poor woman had tears streaming down her face when she thanked us. She said nobody has ever done anything like that for me.

Yes.

When we stop their suffering, we are the most like Father God and Jesus the Son.

That is what Jesus was always doing, when He was down here.
He was always stopping someone's suffering,...... as down here, there is little else to be found..
This world is High Gloss suffering., for the most part.
This world is very harsh, and its harshest on the Poor and the weak and the fearful and the abused.

Ive had arguments with people about giving to street people.

"well, they'll just take the money and buy Cigarettes or Booze, or drugs".
"So, are you being a good steward with God's money if you give to those people"?

Well.. //

Did Jesus heal only the good people ????? when "none are good, no not one"....., or did He heal everyone who asked Him for help, including Lepers, Romans, Whores, ect, ect.

 

[Don Miller]

I seen the poverty gospel also practiced at Baptist churches. I reacted the way the other family in your article. A poor woman who is a good friend of ours attended this Baptist church with her late husband for decades. The poor woman was wearing 15 year old hearing aids and was stone deaf. She couldn't afford new hearing aids and went to her church for help in getting new hearing aids. There said they couldn't afford to help her at all. It wasn't in their budget. Upon hearing this we took the woman to the hearing aid specialist that my wife goes to for a hearing test. The test revealed that her hearing was worse than she imagined. I told her to select new hearing aides that she felt comfortable with that cost was not an issue. My wife and I paid for her new hearing aids that day. I believe it blessed us more than it did her. I believe everyone should do a Mitzvah (a good deed) and maybe our world would be a better place to live.
Shalom

Exactly it's bless you more than it blessed her. Amen to that!

 

[koberstein]

Exactly it's bless you more than it blessed her. Amen to that!

It truly did. She had tears in her eyes and told us nobody has ever done anything like that for me. I told her you will be able to hear the birds sing and listen to the preachers sermon on Sundays.

 

[Rockson]

Reader,


So, on one side of Mary, is a Christian family, who believes that if they are starving (and so are their 3 children), then that is a "Godly sign of Spirituality".

I agree with quite a bit that you say in your post but I think you ruin it by being extreme. I know so very few Christians that actually believe people starving is a sign of spirituality. I think most Christians just want people to have balance when it comes to this subject.

1.) So, she goes to the "poverty gospel Christians" and says...>"can you help us"?
And the Poverty Gospel Christians say...>"...oh...would that we could..... but we have nothing we can give you, and we too are freezing every winter, but God is well pleased.. and ... God bless.""""".

Well I'm 67 and have been a Christian for over 50 years. I've never heard anyone every say or claim God is pleased with them ;being cold in the winter. Have you ever truly heard anyone say those very words? If you did it surely couldn't be too many.

 

[Don Miller]

I agree with quite a bit that you say in your post but I think you ruin it by being extreme. I know so very few Christians that actually believe people starving is a sign of spirituality. I think most Christians just want people to have balance when it comes to this subject.

Well I'm 67 and have been a Christian for over 50 years. I've never heard anyone every say or claim God is pleased with them ;being cold in the winter. Have you ever truly heard anyone say those very words? If you did it surely couldn't be too many.

If a person wants to take a vow of poverty that's fine. The problem comes in when we try to tell everyone else they need to do the same. We don't want to be like the Pharisees in Jesus day, putting heavy burdens on people's backs.

Galatians 5:1 - It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Personally I'll go with this one.

The thief comes only in order to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have and enjoy life, and have it in abundance [to the full, till it overflows]. John 10:10

I believe that the poverty gospel presented is not biblical. It is simply an example of how easy it is to make something sound biblical by taking Bible verses out of context and not considering the counsel of all of Scripture.

 

[koberstein]

If a person wants to take a vow of poverty that's fine. The problem comes in when we try to tell everyone else they need to do the same. We don't want to be like the Pharisees in Jesus day, putting heavy burdens on people's backs.

Galatians 5:1 - It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Personally I'll go with this one.

The thief comes only in order to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have and enjoy life, and have it in abundance [to the full, till it overflows]. John 10:10

I believe that the poverty gospel presented is not biblical. It is simply an example of how easy it is to make something sound biblical by taking Bible verses out of context and not considering the counsel of all of Scripture.

God's economy is not like man's economy. Where man's economy is self centered and has a "what's in it for me" mentality. When I fell 8ft off of a ladder and crushed my wrist and broke a finger; I had to have surgery. The day of the surgery the neighbor lady brought supper over to us that evening. My other neighbor took our garbage out to the street for the garbage man. He also picked up our Amazon packages up at the front door and brought them inside. My best friend Mike came over and mowed our yard, edged the driveway and the walk ways. I think Adonai remembered a few months ago when we helped Donna with purchasing new hearing aids.
We do not own anything in this world. Adonai owns it all. He gives us resources to manage and when we manage them well, He will give us more to manage.
Shalom

 

[Don Miller]

God's economy is not like man's economy. Where man's economy is self centered and has a "what's in it for me" mentality. When I fell 8ft off of a ladder and crushed my wrist and broke a finger; I had to have surgery. The day of the surgery the neighbor lady brought supper over to us that evening. My other neighbor took our garbage out to the street for the garbage man. He also picked up our Amazon packages up at the front door and brought them inside. My best friend Mike came over and mowed our yard, edged the driveway and the walk ways. I think Adonai remembered a few months ago when we helped Donna with purchasing new hearing aids.
We do not own anything in this world. Adonai owns it all. He gives us resources to manage and when we manage them well, He will give us more to manage.
Shalom

I believe it's always important to be a good steward.

Psalm 121 A song of ascents. I lift up my eyes to the hills-- where does my help come from? My help comes from the LORD, the Maker of heaven and earth. indeed, he who watches over Israel will neither slumber nor sleep.

 

[koberstein]

I believe it's always important to be a good steward.

Psalm 121 A song of ascents. I lift up my eyes to the hills-- where does my help come from? My help comes from the LORD, the Maker of heaven and earth. indeed, he who watches over Israel will neither slumber nor sleep.

Shalom aleichem

 

[Behold]

God is a Giver.

So should we.

In fact, part of the reason that "God gives us the power to get/make wealth".. is because when you have some money, you can give some money.

And a person who has no experience with this.. .who is stingy, greedy, selfish, carnal... will say.....well, give them a coat, give them some socks,...or give them some water.

No, give them some MONEY., unless there is snow on the ground and they dont have a coat.
So, use common sense...of course.

However give them money.
Why?

Because the poor need to eat every day, and they can't eat socks or their coat, and water can't solve starvation.

Reader, if you are stuck in this situation.......

1.) "well, i just dont trust the church, the pastors......as i never really know WHERE the money goes, that i give". "And i dont like that"..."feeling".

So, do this.

See all those people at red lights and in parking lots, that look thin and dirty?
They are "suffering", and they need a little help.
Please give them some money, as then you see that it went to the person.......you saw it., you know it.
And God saw you give..

Just give.
Dont argue inside your double-mided self.......... as if you do that, you'll not give., you'll "over think it".,(flesh) and get frustrated, and do the wrong thing.

Dont do that.

See, When Jesus Healed, He never evaluated the person's worth to society, to see if they were worth healing...

So, dont evaluate the situation, just give to the poor.

God does..
How do you know, ????? = its because when you do, its God's money you are giving them...

You didnt think it was yours, did you?
See, you only get to USE IT... so use it wisely.

= GIVE.

 

[Aeliana]

Giving Must Cost You Something

But the king replied to Araunah, “No, I insist on paying you for it. I will not sacrifice to the Lord my God burnt offerings that cost me nothing.”
So David bought the threshing floor and the oxen and paid fifty shekels of silver for them. Samuel 24:24


I believe that in God's economy, nothing cheap is worth having. God gave His only Son to free us, and while we can never equal that sacrifice, we must give back to Him in a way that means something. King David said he would not give God something that cost him nothing. And I have learned that true giving is not giving until I can feel it.

Giving away the clothes and household items I'm finished with may be a nice gesture, but it doesn't equal real giving. Real giving occurs when I give somebody something that I want to keep. I'm sure you've had those testing times when God asks you to give away something you like. But when you consider how He gave His only Son for us because of His love for us, doesn't that make you want to give of yourself too?

The simple truth is this: We must give to be happy, and giving is not true giving if it doesn't cost us something.

Prayer Starter: God, I want my giving to be meaningful. Tell me what and when You want me to give to help or just bless someone else. I want to give to others like You have given Your love to me.

Joyce Meyer: Promises for Your Everyday Life - a Daily Devotional

 

[Behold]

Real giving occurs when I give somebody something that I want to keep.

Then give them some MONEY, as you definitely would want to keep it.

 

[koberstein]

Giving Must Cost You Something

But the king replied to Araunah, “No, I insist on paying you for it. I will not sacrifice to the Lord my God burnt offerings that cost me nothing.”
So David bought the threshing floor and the oxen and paid fifty shekels of silver for them. Samuel 24:24


I believe that in God's economy, nothing cheap is worth having. God gave His only Son to free us, and while we can never equal that sacrifice, we must give back to Him in a way that means something. King David said he would not give God something that cost him nothing. And I have learned that true giving is not giving until I can feel it.

Giving away the clothes and household items I'm finished with may be a nice gesture, but it doesn't equal real giving. Real giving occurs when I give somebody something that I want to keep. I'm sure you've had those testing times when God asks you to give away something you like. But when you consider how He gave His only Son for us because of His love for us, doesn't that make you want to give of yourself too?

The simple truth is this: We must give to be happy, and giving is not true giving if it doesn't cost us something.

Prayer Starter: God, I want my giving to be meaningful. Tell me what and when You want me to give to help or just bless someone else. I want to give to others like You have given Your love to me.

Joyce Meyer: Promises for Your Everyday Life - a Daily Devotional

I'm not into the prosperity plant a seed gospel. The people like Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen and other name it and claim it so called preachers have greatly deceived people in the name of religion. If these preachers are planting prosperity seeds. I want to spray Round Up on it.
Shalom

 

[Aeliana]

I'm not into the prosperity plant a seed gospel. The people like Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen and other name it and claim it so called preachers have greatly deceived people in the name of religion. If these preachers are planting prosperity seeds. I want to spray Round Up on it.
Shalom

Every one is entitled to their own opinion.

Then give them some MONEY, as you definitely would want to keep it.

My family does and so do my friends and the home group we belong to.