The Issue of Limited Atonement

Presby02 said:
Among other things, yup.
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Love is the peak of the mountain top. Its the foundation of Gods nature. here are so many misnomers running around about God and His love and what that looks like in regard to mankind. If anyone wants to know what God is like and what He thinks we need to look no further than Jesus and His teachings since He is the Eternal God who became man.

1- Jesus taught us to love our enemies and pray for them
2- Jesus lived among sinners, ate with them and loved them, had compassion on them.
3- Jesus loves sinners, not hates them
4- Jesus on the cross said please forgive them Father for they know not what they do- His enemies who hated Him at the time.
5- Jesus came to seek and save the lost, the sinner
6- Jesus showed us what love looks like, acts like, talks like, lives like and how it treats people.
7- Jesus told us all the law and commandments are wrapped up/fulfilled in loving God with all our being( heart, mind,soul ) and your neighbor as you do yourself.
8- Jesus said if you really love Him you will do what He has commanded
9- Love is described perfectly in 1 Corinthians 13- If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.8 Love never fails.
10- Love in action in Galatians 5- But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

I could list another 10 points to this list but this should be plenty to get the point across. The wrath, anger, hatred about God towards us misunderstood by many. Gods wrath always falls upon the reprobate, apostate, those hardened against God, those who are wicked and rebellious that reject Gods provision for their sins by Jesus sacrifice.

conclusion: because God is Love and Jesus is God we can see to perfection that 1 Cor 13 and the fruit of the spirit in Gal 5:22-23 describes Jesus to a tee . He is love incarnate since God is love we see Him in action described in the gospels and where the Bible defines love.

hope this helps !!!
 
Presby02 said:
Nope. Spiritually I was hence Christ "made me alive", caused my rebirth to life anew.
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so it was not your choice no more than an avatar has the ability to love since you were a dead man walking, a spiritual zombie, a corpse.

you were like adam nothing but inanimate dirt pile God had to breathe life into.
 
civic said:
Love is the peak of the mountain top. Its the foundation of Gods nature. here are so many misnomers running around about God and His love and what that looks like in regard to mankind. If anyone wants to know what God is like and what He thinks we need to look no further than Jesus and His teachings since He is the Eternal God who became man.

1- Jesus taught us to love our enemies and pray for them
2- Jesus lived among sinners, ate with them and loved them, had compassion on them.
3- Jesus loves sinners, not hates them
4- Jesus on the cross said please forgive them Father for they know not what they do- His enemies who hated Him at the time.
5- Jesus came to seek and save the lost, the sinner
6- Jesus showed us what love looks like, acts like, talks like, lives like and how it treats people.
7- Jesus told us all the law and commandments are wrapped up/fulfilled in loving God with all our being( heart, mind,soul ) and your neighbor as you do yourself.
8- Jesus said if you really love Him you will do what He has commanded
9- Love is described perfectly in 1 Corinthians 13- If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.8 Love never fails.
10- Love in action in Galatians 5- But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

I could list another 10 points to this list but this should be plenty to get the point across. The wrath, anger, hatred about God towards us misunderstood by many. Gods wrath always falls upon the reprobate, apostate, those hardened against God, those who are wicked and rebellious that reject Gods provision for their sins by Jesus sacrifice.

conclusion: because God is Love and Jesus is God we can see to perfection that 1 Cor 13 and the fruit of the spirit in Gal 5:22-23 describes Jesus to a tee . He is love incarnate since God is love we see Him in action described in the gospels and where the Bible defines love.

hope this helps !!!
Click to expand...
Sorry. This whole post is a non-sequitur
 
civic said:
so it was not your choice no more than an avatar has the ability to love since you were a dead man walking, a spiritual zombie, a corpse.

you were like adam nothing but inanimate dirt pile God had to breathe life into.
Click to expand...
Nope. It was not.

Nope, not a zombie. I was dead in trespasses and sins.
 
Presby02 said:
We loved Him because He first loved us.

So do you go from hating God to loving Him? Explain the process
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God is relational and like you agree desires relationship. So I freely chose to love God after hearing the gospel and believing it and receiving Christ. The relationship was mutual as God showed me that He loved me and I loved Him in return. God did not have to zap me with anything for me to know He loved me. God did not have to coerce me and impel me to love Him.
 
civic said:
God is relational and like you agree desires relationship. So I freely chose to love God after hearing the gospel and believing it and receiving Christ. The relationship was mutual as God showed me that He loved me and I loved Him in return. God did not have to zap me with anything for me to know He loved me. God did not have to coerce me and impel me to love Him.
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No one says God uses force or coercion. STRAWMAN

We love God because He first loved us.
 
civic said:
yes a spiritually dead man- like a corpse spiritually dead.
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Spiritually dead. Physically very much alive. Hence Christ makes "alive", causes our rebirth.

I have answered all your attempted gotcha questions. YOUR TURN

How dis you go from hating God to loving Him??
 
Presby02 said:
Spiritually dead. Physically very much alive. Hence Christ makes "alive", causes our rebirth.

I have answered all your attempted gotcha questions. YOUR TURN

How dis you go from hating God to loving Him??
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strawman alert- where did I ever say I hated God ?
 
Presby02 said:
Nope. God determines your choice yet you still make them. Paul wrote what God determined He write yet he chose what He wrote freely. The Bible is the perfect example of compatibilism.
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Inspiration of the Holy Spirit is not predetermination. The Spirit leads and we follow willingly. The end is foreknown but not decreed. The concept of synergy, which is precisely what you are describing, cannot exist with an absolute determination; synergy and determination are polar opposites. They cannot logically exist in the same scenario.

Doug
 
Presby02 said:
Some of us
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So you say that God only wants to be in relationship with some. Of course you would claim YOU would have to be one of the some God would never consider having you excluded . Others YES....but not you! Wonder why that would be? Maybe others have freckles? He doesn't like them? Perhaps you're prettier than others? Yeah maybe that's it! Maybe God indeed does make mistakes in his creations and he steps back and says oops....how I created them I'm not pleased with their appearance.

Or maybe you just smell better and have used your scope for the day? Nothing worse than bad breath for sure! Or maybe the others were born on just the wrong side of the tracks? Or hey maybe it's to do with the month they were born and we'll be shocked to find out that anyone born in a certain month of the year had God's grace given to them? Yeah maybe the stars just didn't line up in their favor?

So just what is it that makes you so special above all others? Do you say, "Well I don't know but there must be something that makes me more appealing to be around!" This sounds all so familiar to when Jesus said the first shall be last and the last shall be first or those who pride themselves with self exaltation may be shocked to discover they become abased. So how about we just accept the truth that there is NO DIFFERENCE between how God looks upon men for ALL have sinned and he's provided grace for the worse of the worse. You might be wise to consider that NO you are not God's special pet above any other.
 
TibiasDad said:
Inspiration of the Holy Spirit is not predetermination. The Spirit leads and we follow willingly. The end is foreknown but not decreed. The concept of synergy, which is precisely what you are describing, cannot exist with an absolute determination; synergy and determination are polar opposites. They cannot logically exist in the same scenario.

Doug
Click to expand...
Amen a relationship is synergistic, not monergistic. :)
 
TibiasDad said:
Inspiration of the Holy Spirit is not predetermination. The Spirit leads and we follow willingly. The end is foreknown but not decreed. The concept of synergy, which is precisely what you are describing, cannot exist with an absolute determination; synergy and determination are polar opposites. They cannot logically exist in the same scenario.

Doug
Click to expand...
God did not determine His word?

Sure it can. Scripture being the primary example.
 

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