The Issue of Limited Atonement

[TomL]

Sure you do. You have the natural ability. You actually make a choice. Paul actually chose what to write.

Sorry no determination takes that away

 

[Presby02]

Sorry no determination takes that away

Nope.

If a choice you make is foreknown and certain, can you choose otherwise?

 

[civic]

Yup. Because God determined I do so.

The puppeteer

 

[civic]

Styx? Your old.

Most likely I was a believe before you were a twinkle in your father’s eye.

 

[Presby02]

The puppeteer

Nope. Puppets are not are inanimate objects.

 

[Presby02]

Most likely I was a believe before you were a twinkle in your father’s eye.

Maybe. So what.

 

[civic]

Nope. Puppets are not are inanimate objects.

Is God personal ?

 

[Presby02]

Is God personal ?

Yup

 

[civic]

Yup

Does God desire to have a relationship with you ?

 

[Presby02]

Does God desire to have a relationship with you ?

Some of us

 

[civic]

Some of us

And you agree God is love correct ?

 

[Presby02]

And you agree God is love correct ?

Among other things, yup.

 

[civic]

Among other things, yup.

So far God is personal , desires a relationship with you and is love all of which you affirmed.

Yet you did not choose to love God since you were personally incapable of loving God in return.

Name any relationship founded upon love that is not a mutual one where both parties willingly love each other without being coerced, forced or impelled ?

You see you did not freely love God on your own so in reality it’s not a loving relationship at all. It can’t be since a dead cursor cannot love.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Presby02]

So far God is personal , desires a relationship with you and is love all of which you affirmed.

Yet you did not choose to love God since you were personally incapable of loving God in return.

Name any relationship founded upon love that is not a mutual one where both parties willingly love each other without being coerced, forced or impelled ?

You see you did not freely love God on your own so in reality it’s not a loving relationship at all. It can’t be since a dead cursor cannot love.

hope this helps !!!

I loved Him because He first loved me. How does one go from hating God to loving God?

 

[civic]

I loved Him because He first loved me. How does one go from hating God to loving God?

as a dead corpse how could you love Him ?

 

[Presby02]

as a dead corpse how could you love Him ?

Dead Spiritually or physically?

 

[civic]

Dead Spiritually or physically?

were you dead physically when God saved you ?

 

[civic]

I loved Him because He first loved me. How does one go from hating God to loving God?

An Avatar cannot love.This is not an invalid way of discerning what "love" looks like; Jesus appeals to our own intuition regarding this when He says "What father is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!"

Notice that He invites us to reflect on our own subjective intuition regarding what love looks like, and to then project that onto God. Notice also that Jesus gives credit to our sense of what love looks like while assuming that we are nevertheless evil. This suggests that no matter how evil we may become, our sense of what love looks like remains intuitive to us (even though we may suppress it).

Now let's apply this to free will. If you are married, would you feel that your wife's love is genuine if you knew that she had a sophisticated microchip in her brain that you invented which was directing her every thought and action towards you? Isn't the knowledge that you have no direct control over her will a source of pleasure for you when she does act and speak lovingly? Why is this? And don't you think God might crave the same pleasure that comes from such love?

 

[Presby02]

were you dead physically when God saved you ?

Nope. Spiritually I was hence Christ "made me alive", caused my rebirth to life anew.

 

[Presby02]

An Avatar cannot love.This is not an invalid way of discerning what "love" looks like; Jesus appeals to our own intuition regarding this when He says "What father is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!"

Notice that He invites us to reflect on our own subjective intuition regarding what love looks like, and to then project that onto God. Notice also that Jesus gives credit to our sense of what love looks like while assuming that we are nevertheless evil. This suggests that no matter how evil we may become, our sense of what love looks like remains intuitive to us (even though we may suppress it).

Now let's apply this to free will. If you are married, would you feel that your wife's love is genuine if you knew that she had a sophisticated microchip in her brain that you invented which was directing her every thought and action towards you? Isn't the knowledge that you have no direct control over her will a source of pleasure for you when she does act and speak lovingly? Why is this? And don't you think God might crave the same pleasure that comes from such love?

We loved Him because He first loved us.

So do you go from hating God to loving Him? Explain the process