The Issue of Limited Atonement

[TomL]

God tied Adam’s arm if you are true to your theology. Thereby effecting our condition outside of our own volition. Then, according to Calvinism, God blames us, for not being able to do what he commands.

When God decrees from before the foundation of the world “whatsoever comes to pass” he has made the determining choice, which makes our will irrelevant, thus, not independent of God’s direct control, which means it is not free in any way.


Doug

They like to forget that when it becomes inconvenient and have their cake and eat it too

 

[Presby02]

But you’re not going north anymore are you?

Doug

Very good.

Not according to Calvinism. God ordained “whatsoever comes to pass”, that includes Adam’s hands.


Doug

Yup. Still His choice though

 

[civic]

Very good.

Yup. Still His choice though

Nope it doesn’t say that

Next

 

[Presby02]

Nope it doesn’t say that

Next

Adam made no choice?

 

[civic]

Adam made no choice?

Did you make a choice out of your own volition to believe or disbelieve God?

 

[TomL]

Very good.

Yup. Still His choice though

There is no real choice man is made to do what God determines him to do

 

[civic]

There is no real choice man is made to do what God determines him to do

Yes welcome to the Grand Illusion

Styx theology lol.

 

[TomL]

Yes welcome to the Grand Illusion

Styx theology lol.

A and not A theology

 

[TibiasDad]

Very good.

Yup. Still His choice though

The choice is already made by God; no choice remains for man. There are not two choices, there is only one to be made.


Doug

 

[TomL]

The choice is already made by God; no choice remains for man. There are not two choices, there is only one to be made.


Doug

Of course. Calvinism destroys choice but wants to keep it alive at the same time.

 

[civic]

A and not A theology

Yep

 

[Presby02]

The choice is already made by God; no choice remains for man. There are not two choices, there is only one to be made.


Doug

Nope. God determines your choice yet you still make them. Paul wrote what God determined He write yet he chose what He wrote freely. The Bible is the perfect example of compatibilism.

 

[Presby02]

Did you make a choice out of your own volition to believe or disbelieve God?

Yup. Because God determined I do so.

 

[Presby02]

Yes welcome to the Grand Illusion

Styx theology lol.

Styx? Your old.

 

[TomL]

Nope. God determines your choice yet you still make them. Paul wrote what God determined He write yet he chose what He wrote freely. The Bible is the perfect example of compatibilism.

That is not a choice. That is simply doing what was determined

 

[Presby02]

That is not a choice. That is simply doing what was determined

Nope. I made a choice. Paul made a choice to pen scripture.

 

[TomL]

Nope. I made a choice. Paul made a choice to pen scripture.

Nope there was nothing to chose from

You did the only thing you could

 

[Presby02]

Nope there was nothing to chose from

You did the only thing you could

Sure there was. I have the natural ability to choose otherwise. I simply won't. I have the natural ability to keep the law perfectly, which makes me responsible, not the moral ability. Hence it's never been done.

 

[TomL]

Sure there was. I have the natural ability to choose otherwise. I simply won't. I have the natural ability to keep the law perfectly, which makes me responsible, not the moral ability. Hence it's never been done.

Sorry you cannot. You have no ability at all to do other than what was determined

 

[Presby02]

Sorry you cannot. You have no ability at all to do other than what was determined

Sure you do. You have the natural ability. You actually make a choice. Paul actually chose what to write.