The Issue of Limited Atonement

[civic]

Paul is preaching Limited atonement, exactly who Salvation in Christ is for, the Elect 2 Tim 210

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Its only One Salvation in Christ Jesus, and its limited to the elect !

It’s for everyone

John 3:14-18
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Above we see those who looked upon the brass serpent in the wilderness were healed/ saved. Moses provided a way for those bit by the poisonous snakes to be healed and not die by looking upon the brass serpent. Jesus compares Himself in the same way to be saved by His provision for their sins through His atonement to be received by faith. In both cases faith saved them in the OT wilderness as is the case with Jesus in the NT.

Paul agrees

1 Timothy 2:1-6

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

As we see above the Apostle Paul says we are to pray for " ALL " people everywhere even for the " kings in authority" and then uses the same word in the same context of " ALL " people with Jesus giving His life as a ransom for all.

 

[Selah]

The Scriptures go out of their way to particularize who it is for whom Christ died.

• He died for His people (Matthew 1:21).

• He died for His friends (John 15:13).

• He died for His sheep (John 10:11).

• He died for His body ‑ the church (Ephesians 5:23‑26).

• He died for the Elect (Romans 8:32‑34).

• He died for Us (Titus 2:14).

How does this particularization take place? Jesus used the image of a shepherd and His sheep to deal with this question.

I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. (John 10:11).


Many people today seem to think that the reason people are or are not sheep is based upon whether they will believe or not believe. They would say, “You are my sheep because you believe,” or, “You are not my sheep because you do not believe.” But Jesus said it differently. He said...

“But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep.” (John 10:26).

Jesus made the basis of whether or not they believe dependent upon whether or not they had been chosen by God to be His sheep. This is just the opposite of the Arminian teaching.

THE ATONEMENT

So then…. Anyone who loves and comes to the Lord is Elect? A nonbeliever will never come to the Lord; therefore, Jesus died for the Elect?

 

[Duane]

The Scriptures go out of their way to particularize who it is for whom Christ died.

• He died for His people (Matthew 1:21).

• He died for His friends (John 15:13).

• He died for His sheep (John 10:11).

• He died for His body ‑ the church (Ephesians 5:23‑26).

• He died for the Elect (Romans 8:32‑34).

• He died for Us (Titus 2:14).

How does this particularization take place? Jesus used the image of a shepherd and His sheep to deal with this question.

I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. (John 10:11).


Many people today seem to think that the reason people are or are not sheep is based upon whether they will believe or not believe. They would say, “You are my sheep because you believe,” or, “You are not my sheep because you do not believe.” But Jesus said it differently. He said...

“But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep.” (John 10:26).

Jesus made the basis of whether or not they believe dependent upon whether or not they had been chosen by God to be His sheep. This is just the opposite of the Arminian teaching.

THE ATONEMENT

He died for the world John 3:16

This is a one-sentence summary of the entire gospel. Still, the verses which follow are just as critical for understanding the Christian message. Christ wasn't sent to judge the world, but to bring salvation. This is an expression of God's incredible love. However, those who do not believe in Jesus Christ are condemned in the eyes of God. Human preference for sin causes many to choose darkness over the Light.

This is the core of Christianity: that God loved the world enough to come in human form—Jesus, who died for us, so that anyone who trusts in Him will be saved from sin. This is certainly the most well-known verse in the Bible. It is probably the best-known and most-memorized part of any holy text in human history. The verse is a one-sentence summary of the gospel: the subject line of the entire Bible. The verse also reflects the way the gospel's essential idea is clear, but there are layers of meaning and knowledge inside of it.

The opening phrase is traditionally translated as "God so loved the world that." This is typically understood to mean, "God loved the world 'so much' that…" That idea isn't entirely wrong, but the actual phrase means "God loved the world 'in this way,'" with emphasis on what God did, more than why. Jesus is an expression of God's indescribable love for "the world," meaning all of mankind (1 John 4:9–10).

The phrase translated as "one and only Son," or "only begotten Son" uses the Greek word monogenēs. This is a very precise word which John uses in other places in this gospel (John 1:14, 18; 3:18). the traditional English term "begotten" often makes people think of biology, but monogenēs does not imply it. The word literally means something of the same nature or substance. "In other words, the Son Man—Jesus—is of exactly the same divinity as God the Father. That makes this verse an important part of proving the biblical concept of the Trinity. In typical use, monogenēs is used to imply "the only of its kind" or "sole [only]," or similar ideas.

The life offered to those who believe in Christ is "eternal," from a Greek word meaning "never ending." The alternative to life in Christ is destruction: to "perish." This passage explains that the purpose of sending Jesus was our salvation (John 3:17), but also reminds us that those who don't believe are condemned (John 3:18, 36). There is no question that, according to the Bible, people can be saved only through faith in Jesus (John 14:6).BibleRef.

 

[brightfame52]

It’s for everyone

John 3:14-18
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Above we see those who looked upon the brass serpent in the wilderness were healed/ saved. Moses provided a way for those bit by the poisonous snakes to be healed and not die by looking upon the brass serpent. Jesus compares Himself in the same way to be saved by His provision for their sins through His atonement to be received by faith. In both cases faith saved them in the OT wilderness as is the case with Jesus in the NT.

Paul agrees

1 Timothy 2:1-6

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

As we see above the Apostle Paul says we are to pray for " ALL " people everywhere even for the " kings in authority" and then uses the same word in the same context of " ALL " people with Jesus giving His life as a ransom for all.

Paul is preaching Limited atonement, exactly who Salvation in Christ is for, the Elect 2 Tim 210

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Its only One Salvation in Christ Jesus, and its limited to the elect !

 

[brightfame52]

So then…. Anyone who loves and comes to the Lord is Elect? A nonbeliever will never come to the Lord; therefore, Jesus died for the Elect?

Dont know what you talking about. I showed you all them scriptures, and that's all you have to say ?

 

[brightfame52]

He died for the world John 3:16

This is a one-sentence summary of the entire gospel. Still, the verses which follow are just as critical for understanding the Christian message. Christ wasn't sent to judge the world, but to bring salvation. This is an expression of God's incredible love. However, those who do not believe in Jesus Christ are condemned in the eyes of God. Human preference for sin causes many to choose darkness over the Light.

He died for the elect exclusively.

 

[civic]

Paul is preaching Limited atonement, exactly who Salvation in Christ is for, the Elect 2 Tim 210

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Its only One Salvation in Christ Jesus, and its limited to the elect !

Paul never taught LA neither did Jesus or any other Apostle.

 

[brightfame52]

Paul never taught LA neither did Jesus or any other Apostle.

Paul is preaching Limited atonement, exactly who Salvation in Christ is for, the Elect 2 Tim 210

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Its only One Salvation in Christ Jesus, and its limited to the elect !

 

[civic]

Paul is preaching Limited atonement, exactly who Salvation in Christ is for, the Elect 2 Tim 210

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Its only One Salvation in Christ Jesus, and its limited to the elect !

nope you are seeing things in the bible that are not there.

 

[brightfame52]

nope you are seeing things in the bible that are not there.

Paul is preaching Limited atonement, exactly who Salvation in Christ is for, the Elect 2 Tim 210

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Its only One Salvation in Christ Jesus, and its limited to the elect !

 

[civic]

Paul is preaching Limited atonement, exactly who Salvation in Christ is for, the Elect 2 Tim 210

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Its only One Salvation in Christ Jesus, and its limited to the elect !

nope you are hallucinating and imagining things that are not there.

 

[brightfame52]

nope you are hallucinating and imagining things that are not there.

Paul is preaching Limited atonement, exactly who Salvation in Christ is for, the Elect 2 Tim 210

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Its only One Salvation in Christ Jesus, and its limited to the elect !

 

[Duane]

He died for the elect exclusively.

Jesus died for the sins of the entire world. There are a number of passages that teach this.

All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him. Isaiah 53:6 (NASB)

I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever; and the bread also which I shall give for the life of the world is My flesh. (John 6:51 (NASB)

. . . and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. 1 John 2:2 (NASB)

These passages teach that Jesus died for the sins of the entire world.

 

[civic]

Jesus died for the sins of the entire world. There are a number of passages that teach this.


These passages teach that Jesus died for the sins of the entire world.

Yes those with eyes to see and ears to hear know that is the truth. Its written in many places in scripture. The teaching of man are blinding to the truth much like the traditions of men taught by the pharisees kept them blind in Jesus day.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus died for the sins of the entire world. There are a number of passages that teach this.


These passages teach that Jesus died for the sins of the entire world.

He died exclusively for His Sheep Jn 10, you dont understand any of those passages, you have been deceived

 

[Duane]

He died exclusively for His Sheep Jn 10, you dont understand any of those passages, you have been deceived

All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him. Isaiah 53:6 (NASB)

I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever; and the bread also which I shall give for the life of the world is My flesh. (John 6:51 (NASB)

. . . and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. 1 John 2:2 (NASB)

These passages teach that Jesus died for the sins of the entire world.

 

[GodsGrace]

Paul is preaching Limited atonement, exactly who Salvation in Christ is for, the Elect 2 Tim 210

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Its only One Salvation in Christ Jesus, and its limited to the elect !

BF,,,,
No wonder you can't understand scripture....
You don't seem to understand 2 Timothy 2:10 and it's in PLAIN ENGLISH....

2 Timothy 2:10
10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect,
that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

Paul is speaking of THE JEWS....they are the elect of God,,,,
He ELECTED (CHOSE) to reveal Himself through THE JEWS.

BUT
Look at what 2 Timothy 2:10 states:

Paul endures for the sake of the ELECT,,,THE JEWS...

So that THEY TOO may obtain salvation.

And you gave @JLB a "DUH"!!!

YOU are the one that should be getting a DUH for your total misunderstanding of plain scripture...
but we like to act like intelligent persons instead and refrain from such silly language.

 

[brightfame52]

These passages teach that Jesus died for the sins of the entire world.

No they dont, they teach limited atonement.

 

[Johann]

No they dont, they teach limited atonement.

1 John 2:2 – Christ as the Propitiation for the Whole World
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." (καὶ αὐτὸς ἱλασμός ἐστι περὶ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ἡμῶν· οὐ περὶ τῶν ἡμετέρων δὲ μόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ περὶ ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου.)

Key Rebuttal: The phrase "not for ours only, but also for the whole world" explicitly contrasts a limited group (believers) with the entire world (ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου). If John meant only the elect, he would not have needed to add "but also for the whole world."

Linguistic Analysis: The Greek term κόσμος (kosmos) in Johannine literature most commonly refers to all humanity, including unbelievers (cf. John 3:16-17, 1 John 4:14).

Limited Atonement Argument: Some claim κόσμος only refers to the elect, but this is inconsistent with how John uses the term elsewhere (e.g., 1 John 5:19 – "the whole world lies in wickedness").

2. John 3:16 – God’s Love and Provision for the Whole World
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Key Rebuttal: If “world” meant only the elect, then "whosoever believes" would be meaningless—faith would already be predetermined.

Instead, this verse extends salvation to anyone who believes, showing a universal provision of atonement.

Theological Implication: God’s love and Jesus’ sacrifice are not confined to a select few, but extend to all.


3. 1 Timothy 2:4-6 – God Desires All to Be Saved

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth... Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

Key Rebuttal: The phrase "all men" (πάντας ἀνθρώπους) is comprehensive and does not mean "all kinds of men" (as some claim)—Paul uses the same phrase elsewhere to refer to all people without restriction.

The Ransom (ἀντίλυτρον ὑπὲρ πάντων) – The Greek preposition ὑπὲρ (for) means "on behalf of," reinforcing substitutionary atonement for all people.

4. 2 Peter 3:9 – God’s Patience Toward All Sinners
"The Lord is... not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Key Rebuttal: If God only desires the elect to be saved, then why would Peter say God is not willing for any to perish? This verse directly refutes the idea that Jesus only died for a limited group.

5. Hebrews 2:9 – Christ Tasted Death for Everyone
"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

Key Rebuttal: The phrase "for every man" (ὑπὲρ παντὸς) makes it explicit—Christ’s death is universal.

Conclusion: No Text Teaches Limited Atonement Explicitly

Nowhere does Scripture state that Jesus only died for the elect. Instead, numerous passages explicitly state that His atoning work extends to the whole world, all people, and every man. While salvation is applied to believers, atonement is sufficient for all and efficient for those who believe. The idea that atonement is "limited" in its provision contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture.

J.

 

[brightfame52]

1 John 2:2 – Christ as the Propitiation for the Whole World
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." (καὶ αὐτὸς ἱλασμός ἐστι περὶ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ἡμῶν· οὐ περὶ τῶν ἡμετέρων δὲ μόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ περὶ ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου.)

Key Rebuttal: The phrase "not for ours only, but also for the whole world" explicitly contrasts a limited group (believers) with the entire world (ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου). If John meant only the elect, he would not have needed to add "but also for the whole world."

Linguistic Analysis: The Greek term κόσμος (kosmos) in Johannine literature most commonly refers to all humanity, including unbelievers (cf. John 3:16-17, 1 John 4:14).

Limited Atonement Argument: Some claim κόσμος only refers to the elect, but this is inconsistent with how John uses the term elsewhere (e.g., 1 John 5:19 – "the whole world lies in wickedness").

2. John 3:16 – God’s Love and Provision for the Whole World
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Key Rebuttal: If “world” meant only the elect, then "whosoever believes" would be meaningless—faith would already be predetermined.

Instead, this verse extends salvation to anyone who believes, showing a universal provision of atonement.

Theological Implication: God’s love and Jesus’ sacrifice are not confined to a select few, but extend to all.


3. 1 Timothy 2:4-6 – God Desires All to Be Saved

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth... Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

Key Rebuttal: The phrase "all men" (πάντας ἀνθρώπους) is comprehensive and does not mean "all kinds of men" (as some claim)—Paul uses the same phrase elsewhere to refer to all people without restriction.

The Ransom (ἀντίλυτρον ὑπὲρ πάντων) – The Greek preposition ὑπὲρ (for) means "on behalf of," reinforcing substitutionary atonement for all people.

4. 2 Peter 3:9 – God’s Patience Toward All Sinners
"The Lord is... not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Key Rebuttal: If God only desires the elect to be saved, then why would Peter say God is not willing for any to perish? This verse directly refutes the idea that Jesus only died for a limited group.

5. Hebrews 2:9 – Christ Tasted Death for Everyone
"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

Key Rebuttal: The phrase "for every man" (ὑπὲρ παντὸς) makes it explicit—Christ’s death is universal.

Conclusion: No Text Teaches Limited Atonement Explicitly

Nowhere does Scripture state that Jesus only died for the elect. Instead, numerous passages explicitly state that His atoning work extends to the whole world, all people, and every man. While salvation is applied to believers, atonement is sufficient for all and efficient for those who believe. The idea that atonement is "limited" in its provision contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture.

J.

Those scriptures regard limited atonement , every last one of them. You are promoting a false gospel friend.