The Issue of Limited Atonement

brightfame52 said:
How 2 Cor 5:19 teaches limited atonement !2

2 Cor 5:17-19

17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Now the World in 2 Cor 5:19 cant possibly be all without exception because those of this World are new creatures in Christ Vs 17. All men Christ died for Vs 14-15 are new creatures, their sins have been put away, and they are new creatures by Justification and reconciliation ! Now this cannot be said of the world that shall be condemned 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Now is the reconciled world in 2 Cor 5:19 the same as the condemned world in 1 Cor 11:32 ? The answer is NO ! 3
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You just ignore this

 
The World of the Elect !

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

This world has been discharged of all of its sins, and is in a blessed state as these to whom God will not impute sin Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Now the World in 2 Cor 5:19 cant be the condemned world in 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


This world is condemned and charged with its sins ! 3
 
brightfame52 said:
The World of the Elect !

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

This world has been discharged of all of its sins, and is in a blessed state as these to whom God will not impute sin Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Now the World in 2 Cor 5:19 cant be the condemned world in 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


This world is condemned and charged with its sins ! 3
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https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-issue-of-limited-atonement.944/post-120274
 
The World in 2 Cor 5:19 doesnt have its sins charged to them, so it cant mean everyone without exception as its falsely claimed by many !

Lets read

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 4
 
brightfame52 said:
The World in 2 Cor 5:19 doesnt have its sins charged to them, so it cant mean everyone without exception as its falsely claimed by many !

Lets read

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 4
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everyone is left in their sins if they reject the gospel.
 
The individuals that compose the world of 2 Cor 5:19 will eventually be subjectively reconciled to God,from their natural enmity and being enemies in their minds by wicked works as per Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled


The Spirit of Christ gives these reconciled individuals repentant hearts and minds causing them to submit to God in Christ. If this werent true then 2 Cor 5:19 would be a lie ! And so they come to God through Christ Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
 
brightfame52 said:
The individuals that compose the world of 2 Cor 5:19 will eventually be subjectively reconciled to God,from their natural enmity and being enemies in their minds by wicked works as per Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled


The Spirit of Christ gives these reconciled individuals repentant hearts and minds causing them to submit to God in Christ. If this werent true then 2 Cor 5:19 would be a lie ! And so they come to God through Christ Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
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civic said:
everyone is left in their sins if they reject the gospel.
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Bingo!!!! "Mixed with FAITH" is the limiting factor.

Jesus' SIN OFFERING (Isa 53:10) is INFINITE in its POTENTIAL provision - BUT totally ineffective for people who do not accept in IN FAITH (Eph 2:8,9)(Heb 4:2).
 
@Bob Carabbio

Jesus' SIN OFFERING (Isa 53:10) is INFINITE in its POTENTIAL provision
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Potential ? Thats false and not what Isa 53:10 says

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
 
brightfame52 said:
@Bob Carabbio



Potential ? Thats false and not what Isa 53:10 says

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
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Nothing there denying the potential of Christ's atonement

John 4:42 (KJV 1900) — 42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

1 John 4:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
 
Be ye reconciled to God !

Now who is Paul speaking to here ? Is he speaking to unreconciled sinners ? The answer is NO, in fact those he is speaking to have already by

Christ been reconciled to God, thats seen in 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

And Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So the ones Paul is speaking to in 2 Cor 5:20

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Are those truthfully already reconciled, so what Paul is doing by the word of reconciliation he is preaching, which is the Gospel, the Power of God unto salvation Rom 1:16 he's bringing the already reconciled to Faith in the declared word of God, for Faith cometh by hearing Rom 10:17

What most neglect to tell us about "be ye reconciled to God" is that its an imperative passive voice, meaning that God through the Gospel is not only commanding reconciliation to Him by the Word, but actually brings about the reconciliation of their minds and hearts to Gods word and the obedience of Faith !

For those who dont know the passive voice is defined:

The passive voice represents the subject as being the recipient of the action. E.g., in the sentence, "The boy was hit by the ball," the boy receives the action.

The subjects of the imperative be ye reconciled to God are recipients of the action of the word of reconciliation in the power of the Spirit having their minds and hearts brought to Faith ! 4
 
brightfame52 said:
Be ye reconciled to God !

Now who is Paul speaking to here ? Is he speaking to unreconciled sinners ? The answer is NO, in fact those he is speaking to have already by

Christ been reconciled to God, thats seen in 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

And Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So the ones Paul is speaking to in 2 Cor 5:20

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Are those truthfully already reconciled, so what Paul is doing by the word of reconciliation he is preaching, which is the Gospel, the Power of God unto salvation Rom 1:16 he's bringing the already reconciled to Faith in the declared word of God, for Faith cometh by hearing Rom 10:17

What most neglect to tell us about "be ye reconciled to God" is that its an imperative passive voice, meaning that God through the Gospel is not only commanding reconciliation to Him by the Word, but actually brings about the reconciliation of their minds and hearts to Gods word and the obedience of Faith !

For those who dont know the passive voice is defined:

The passive voice represents the subject as being the recipient of the action. E.g., in the sentence, "The boy was hit by the ball," the boy receives the action.

The subjects of the imperative be ye reconciled to God are recipients of the action of the word of reconciliation in the power of the Spirit having their minds and hearts brought to Faith ! 4
Click to expand...
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-issue-of-limited-atonement.944/post-120274

Um if they were already of faith they were already reconciled
 
The world in 2 Cor 5:19 is limited to those who have been objectively reconciled to God by His death. Thats why he tells believers that they had been [past tense] reconciled to God by Christs death, even when they themselves were active enemies Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Same thing is implied 2 Cor 5:18

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Now this objective reconciliation is once and for all by the death of Jesus Christ for all whom He died.

So the present tense reconciliation given in Vs 19 of 2 nd Cor 5 doesnt go beyond those who have been objectively reconciled by His death, which of them it entitles to non imputation of sin, sin not being laid to their charge. John Gill makes a solid comment here:

To wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself,.... This expresses and explains the subject matter of the ministration of the Gospel, especially that part of it which concerns our reconciliation with God; and declares the scheme, the author, the subjects, the way, and means, and consequence of it. The phrase, "in Christ", may be either joined with the word "God", as in our version, "God was in Christ reconciling"; that is, he was in Christ drawing the scheme, fixing the method of reconciliation; his thoughts were employed about it, which were thoughts of peace; he called a council of peace, and entered into a covenant of peace with Christ, who was appointed and agreed to, to be the peacemaker. Or with the word "reconciling", thus, God "was reconciling in Christ"; that is, by Christ; and so it denotes, as before, actual reconciliation by Christ. God, in pursuance of his purposes, council, and covenant, sent his Son to make peace; and laid our sins, and the chastisement of our peace upon him; this is the punishment of sin, whereby satisfaction was made for it, and so peace with God: or with the word "world", thus, "God was reconciling the world in Christ"; by whom are meant, not all the individuals of mankind, for these are not all in Christ, nor all reconciled to God, multitudes dying in enmity to him, nor all interested in the blessing of non-imputation of sin; whereas each of these is said of the world: but the elect of God, who are chosen in Christ, whose peace Christ is, whose sins are not imputed to them, and against whom no charge of any avail can be laid; and particularly the people of God among the Gentiles are here designed, who are frequently called "the world" in Scripture; being the world which God loved, for whose sins Christ is the propitiation, and of the reconciling of which mention is particularly made, John 3:16. And this sense well agrees with the context, which signifies, that no man is regarded for his natural descent; it is no matter whether he is a Jew or a Gentile, provided he is but a new creature: for Gospel reconciliation, and the ministry of it, concern one as well as another. Moreover, this reconciliation must be considered, either as intentional, or actual, or as a publication of it in the ministry of the word; and taken either way it cannot be thought to extend to every individual person in the world: if it is to be understood intentionally, that God intended the reconciliation of the world to himself by Christ, and drew the scheme of it in him, his intentions cannot be frustrated; his counsel shall stand, and he will do all his pleasure; a scheme so wisely laid by him in his Son, cannot come to nothing, or only in part be executed; and yet this must be the case, if it was his design to reconcile every individual of mankind to himself, since a large number of them are not reconciled to him: and if the words are to be understood of an actual reconciliation of the world unto God by Christ, which sense agrees with the preceding verse, then it is out of all question, that the word "world" cannot be taken in so large a sense as to take in every man and woman in the world; since it is certain that there are many who are not reconciled to God, who die in their sins, whose peace is not made with him, nor are they reconciled to the way of salvation by Christ: and should it be admitted that the ministry of reconciliation is here designed, which is not an offer of reconciliation to the world, but a proclamation or declaration of peace and reconciliation made by the death of Christ; this is not sent to all men; multitudes were dead before the word of reconciliation was committed to the apostles; and since, there have been great numbers who have never so much as heard of it; and even in the times of the apostles it did not reach to everyone then living: besides, the text does not speak of what God did by the ministry of his apostles, but of what he himself had been doing in his Son, and which was antecedent, and gave rise unto and was the foundation of their ministry. There was a scheme of reconciliation drawn in the counsels of God before the world began, and an actual reconciliation by the death of Christ, which is published in the Gospel, which these words contain the sum and substance of: and this reconciliation, as before, is said to be "unto himself"; to his offended justice, and for the glory of his perfections, and the reconciling of them together in the affair of salvation:
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Now there is a Gospel sense in which subjective reconciliation is presently going on until the completion of all generations of objectively reconciled hear [spiritually] the good news of their Salvation/Reconciliation objectively in and through Jesus Christ..


Be warned that some teach a false view that this portion of scripture teaches universalism, everyone is reconciled to God or shall be, but thats not true because some shall die in their sins, the wrath of God is abiding on them, they shall not see life, and God still charges them with their sins Eph 5:6

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things [sins]cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
 
brightfame52 said:
@Bob Carabbio



Potential ? Thats false and not what Isa 53:10 says

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Click to expand...
for everyone , the atonement is universal is scope and applied to those who believe the gospel.
 
brightfame52 said:
They were reconciled prior to coming to Faith, Faith makes them believe it. Faith gives the evidence of it Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
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The reconciliation had to be accepted

2 Corinthians 5:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
 
brightfame52 said:
The world in 2 Cor 5:19 is limited to those who have been objectively reconciled to God by His death. Thats why he tells believers that they had been [past tense] reconciled to God by Christs death, even when they themselves were active enemies Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Same thing is implied 2 Cor 5:18

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Now this objective reconciliation is once and for all by the death of Jesus Christ for all whom He died.

So the present tense reconciliation given in Vs 19 of 2 nd Cor 5 doesnt go beyond those who have been objectively reconciled by His death, which of them it entitles to non imputation of sin, sin not being laid to their charge. John Gill makes a solid comment here:



Now there is a Gospel sense in which subjective reconciliation is presently going on until the completion of all generations of objectively reconciled hear [spiritually] the good news of their Salvation/Reconciliation objectively in and through Jesus Christ..


Be warned that some teach a false view that this portion of scripture teaches universalism, everyone is reconciled to God or shall be, but thats not true because some shall die in their sins, the wrath of God is abiding on them, they shall not see life, and God still charges them with their sins Eph 5:6

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things [sins]cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Click to expand...
No one here that I know of
 

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