The Issue of Limited Atonement

[DavidTree]

the person is steeped deep in what is called hyper calvinism.

@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY @Selah

well my occupation demands that i be 'hyper' focused, for injury and death is a second away
God's calls us to be 'hyper' focused on exactly what HE says.

BIG PROBLEM: Hyper focused on doctrines of men(calvinism, pre-trib, etc) causes blindness to the very scriptures which they claim to see!

the Only CURE = Proverbs 30:5-6 , Revelation 22:18-19 , Matthew 4:4

Take these THREE scriptures, 3 times a day, and call on JESUS in the Morning

 

[DavidTree]

Good Morning all Brethren @civic and @TomL @Fred : not limited to

 

[TomL]

Good Morning all Brethren @civic and @TomL @Fred : not limited to

Good morning to you

 

[civic]

@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY @Selah

well my occupation demands that i be 'hyper' focused, for injury and death is a second away
God's calls us to be 'hyper' focused on exactly what HE says.

BIG PROBLEM: Hyper focused on doctrines of men(calvinism, pre-trib, etc) causes blindness to the very scriptures which they claim to see!

the Only CURE = Proverbs 30:5-6 , Revelation 22:18-19 , Matthew 4:4

Take these THREE scriptures, 3 times a day, and call on JESUS in the Morning

ditto

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So where is unconditional election spoken of?

I have yet to see a single verse.

The favorite is Romans 9:11

 

[TomL]

The favorite is Romans 9:11

Romans 9:11 (LEB) — 11 for although they had not yet been born, or done anything good or evil, in order that the purpose of God according to election might remain,

Never mentions salvation and the birthrite is the issue

 

[brightfame52]

Not if you read the verses honestly

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The only mention of sheep and it's all men

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


You must be reading your theology into scripture again

Yes honestly,So whenever Christs Death is in view, its limited to the Sheep

 

[brightfame52]

…but why would the Savior of the world die only for His sheep who have already obtained salvation from before the foundation of the world?

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.- 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

See, the Elect will always run into the arms of Jesus upon hearing the gospel. The way I understand it, not everyone is Elect, but God loves all His children.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.- 2 Peter 3:9

View attachment 902Selah

Sorry you not making sense, Christs death for His Sheep is for Salvation.

 

[Selah]

Sorry you not making sense, Christs death for His Sheep is for Salvation.

The Elect were saved before the foundation of the world. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

 

[Selah]

…and

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

- Romans 8:29-30

 

[Selah]

Sorry you not making sense, Christs death for His Sheep is for Salvation.

Yes, they were predestined to be saved way back, before the foundation of the world.

 

[TomL]

Yes honestly,So whenever Christs Death is in view, its limited to the Sheep

Not if you read the verses honestly

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The only mention of sheep and it's all men

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


You must be reading your theology into scripture again

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Romans 9:11 (LEB) — 11 for although they had not yet been born, or done anything good or evil, in order that the purpose of God according to election might remain,

Never mentions salvation and the birthrite is the issue

Read the context.

 

[TomL]

Read the context.

I did. You need to

 

[brightfame52]

The Elect were saved before the foundation of the world. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

That passage doesnt say the elect were saved before the foundation of the world. Yet it guarantees they will be saved

 

[brightfame52]

Not if you read the verses honestly

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The only mention of sheep and it's all men

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


You must be reading your theology into scripture again

For instance the Sheep is meant here 1 Jn 3:16

Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

The us is the Sheep, Cp Jn 10:15

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So wherever its about Christ dying for people, its specifically for the Sheep, it doesn't have to say Sheep everytime, its by the authority of Christs own words.

 

[TomL]

For instance the Sheep is meant here 1 Jn 3:16

Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

The us is the Sheep, Cp Jn 10:15

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So wherever its about Christ dying for people, its specifically for the Sheep, it doesn't have to say Sheep everytime, its by the authority of Christs own words.

That is the fallacy of negative inference

Jesus died for Paul does not mean he died for no one else

 

[brightfame52]

That is the fallacy of negative inference

Jesus died for Paul does not mean he died for no one else

Its comparing spiritual things with spiritual 1 Cor 2 13

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[TomL]

Its comparing spiritual things with spiritual 1 Cor 2 13

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Well then you failed to compare with


Christ died list

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Exported from Logos Bible Study, 5:22 AM October 6, 2024.

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Christ died list

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Limited to the Sheep.