The "honor" due Jesus Christ

[praise_yeshua]

I has been my experience that those who reject the Orthodox doctrine of the Holy Trinity have a VERY poor view of Jesus Christ.

Examples as demonstrated throughout this forum.

1. Believing Jesus Christ is a created being dishonors the innate/intrinsic qualities of Divinity found uniquely in Jesus Christ.
2. Believing that Jesus is just another man that was capable of fulfilling the law like we all are "supposedly" capable of fulfilling the law......dishonors the sacrificial offering of Jesus Christ for us. God "tasting" death for us. Not just any man. Not just some "perfect" man. GOD.... dying for us.
3. Believing Jesus is just one of many "brothers" in the "family".....instead of properly recognizing Jesus Christ as our "Master/Lord" dishonors the Father.
4. Believing Jesus is "submissive" to the Father in the sense "we are subject" to the Father dishonors/ignores Jesus Christ.
5. Believing Jesus literally "became sinful" for us instead of experiencing our sin dishonors the quality of the sacrificial offering of Jesus Christ.

Never forget, the primary goal in promoting the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is to rightful quantify Jesus Christ as Co-Equal, Co-Eternal, and Co-Powerful to the Father.

We do such because the Father has so loved the Son and US that He has made us partakers of His very nature in the New Birth. Not His rank, but His nature.

He alone among us is worthy. He alone is perfect and powerful enough to accomplish our Redemption.

All I see Unitarians do is try to "drag" Jesus down to their sinful level. Those that do such, are not expressing their love for Jesus Christ.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

 

[Clay]

I has been my experience that those who reject the Orthodox doctrine of the Holy Trinity have a VERY poor view of Jesus Christ.

Examples as demonstrated throughout this forum.

1. Believing Jesus Christ is a created being dishonors the innate/intrinsic qualities of Divinity found uniquely in Jesus Christ.
2. Believing that Jesus is just another man that was capable of fulfilling the law like we all are "supposedly" capable of fulfilling the law......dishonors the sacrificial offering of Jesus Christ for us. God "tasting" death for us. Not just any man. Not just some "perfect" man. GOD.... dying for us.
3. Believing Jesus is just one of many "brothers" in the "family".....instead of properly recognizing Jesus Christ as our "Master/Lord" dishonors the Father.
4. Believing Jesus is "submissive" to the Father in the sense "we are subject" to the Father dishonors/ignores Jesus Christ.
5. Believing Jesus literally "became sinful" for us instead of experiencing our sin dishonors the quality of the sacrificial offering of Jesus Christ.

Never forget, the primary goal in promoting the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is to rightful quantify Jesus Christ as Co-Equal, Co-Eternal, and Co-Powerful to the Father.

We do such because the Father has so loved the Son and US that He has made us partakers of His very nature in the New Birth. Not His rank, but His nature.

He alone among us is worthy. He alone is perfect and powerful enough to accomplish our Redemption.

All I see Unitarians do is try to "drag" Jesus down to their sinful level. Those that do such, are not expressing their love for Jesus Christ.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

No offense to anyone that doesn't believe in the trinity, But me personally reacting to the very first line of the op I would just say if you can't see that Jesus is God it's a little more than having "A poor view" it's more like wearing blinders.

 

[civic]

I has been my experience that those who reject the Orthodox doctrine of the Holy Trinity have a VERY poor view of Jesus Christ.

Examples as demonstrated throughout this forum.

1. Believing Jesus Christ is a created being dishonors the innate/intrinsic qualities of Divinity found uniquely in Jesus Christ.
2. Believing that Jesus is just another man that was capable of fulfilling the law like we all are "supposedly" capable of fulfilling the law......dishonors the sacrificial offering of Jesus Christ for us. God "tasting" death for us. Not just any man. Not just some "perfect" man. GOD.... dying for us.
3. Believing Jesus is just one of many "brothers" in the "family".....instead of properly recognizing Jesus Christ as our "Master/Lord" dishonors the Father.
4. Believing Jesus is "submissive" to the Father in the sense "we are subject" to the Father dishonors/ignores Jesus Christ.
5. Believing Jesus literally "became sinful" for us instead of experiencing our sin dishonors the quality of the sacrificial offering of Jesus Christ.

Never forget, the primary goal in promoting the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is to rightful quantify Jesus Christ as Co-Equal, Co-Eternal, and Co-Powerful to the Father.

We do such because the Father has so loved the Son and US that He has made us partakers of His very nature in the New Birth. Not His rank, but His nature.

He alone among us is worthy. He alone is perfect and powerful enough to accomplish our Redemption.

All I see Unitarians do is try to "drag" Jesus down to their sinful level. Those that do such, are not expressing their love for Jesus Christ.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

It’s a low view of Christ stripping Him of the Glory due His Holy name. Whereas with Trinitarians we have a very high christological view of Him where He receives the same honor, glory , worship and praise as the Father as per heaven in Revelation 4-5. All heaven praises and worships Him on the throne.

 

[Wrangler]

All I see Unitarians do is try to "drag" Jesus down to their sinful level.

On the contrary. Considering what Jesus did as a God downplays what he did as a man. God can do anything and it serves no purpose to take the "form" of a man and only "appear" to die.

I'll start a thread to expand on this. I've been wanting to do it for a couple of weeks. For now, 2 things to ponder.

1. How did the man teach us to pray? To our father. Not his father, not trinity, not F, S & HS. Jesus was on our level and he taught us as brothers, to pray to our father. Very profound. It always gets me. Always feel humbled and connected to the divine.
2. First fruits. First means a series of like to follow. If Jesus is anything but a man - and only a man - we've lost our assurance of our inheritance. This is the only way he can be the first fruit.

Putting aside any specific point of debate, I want you to know that Biblical Unitarians consider Jesus to be our lord and savior. Our love, gratitude, and admiration for him - as a man - is beyond our words to express.

 

[praise_yeshua]

On the contrary. Considering what Jesus did as a God downplays what he did as a man. God can do anything and it serves no purpose to take the "form" of a man and only "appear" to die.

I didn't say anything about "appearing to die". Christ literally died. You don't understand the complex nature of the Hypostatic Union.

I'll start a thread to expand on this. I've been wanting to do it for a couple of weeks. For now, 2 things to ponder.

1. How did the man teach us to pray? To our father. Not his father, not trinity, not F, S & HS. Jesus was on our level and he taught us as brothers, to pray to our father. Very profound. It always gets me. Always feel humbled and connected to the divine.
2. First fruits. First means a series of like to follow. If Jesus is anything but a man - and only a man - we've lost our assurance of our inheritance. This is the only way he can be the first fruit.

Again. You don't understand the complexity of the Hypostatic Union. In fact, you're not even trying to deal with it because you don't obviously know the teaching or you would have started there.

Besides. You need to read more of the Scriptures.

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father,

Putting aside any specific point of debate, I want you to know that Biblical Unitarians consider Jesus to be our lord and savior. Our love, gratitude, and admiration for him - as a man - is beyond our words to express.

So you love Him like any other man?

 

[Diserner]

On the contrary. Considering what Jesus did as a God downplays what he did as a man. God can do anything and it serves no purpose to take the "form" of a man and only "appear" to die.

I completely agree with you here, but what if—what if God didn't just "appear" to die.

It's weak tea, weak tea, like an old friend used to say.

 

[Wrangler]

You don't understand the complex nature of the Hypostatic Union.

Wrong. I reject the anti-Scriptural concept of the Hypostatic Union.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Wrong. I reject the anti-Scriptural concept of the Hypostatic Union.

I think we all knew that. I ask this in the context of methodology. If you reject it, does you really know it? There is a reason that God chose faith to please Him.

If you have real faith in something, you will study it properly. You will get to know it. You will trust it. Even when it is challenged, you will take up the challenge to know it better.

Can you honestly say that you have adequately studied the subject or did you just dismiss it from the very beginning?

 

[Wrangler]

Can you honestly say that you have adequately studied the subject or did you just dismiss it from the very beginning?

Yes, I can honestly say that I have adequately studied manmade doctrines. Nonsense is nonsense and believing it as true is not a requirement of salvation.

Regarding faith pleasing God, it is faith in YHWH, the Supreme Being, that is pleasing. What is not pleasing are man-made doctrines like 'hypostatic union,' 3=1-ism, man-is-god thesis, dualism (man-god), the church is our mediator to Christ, OSAS, works based salvation, the Supremacy of Rome (the Church is the vicor of Christ), pillboxes along Spiritual journey, sons not created, Mary being the object of prayer and worship, etc.

My conclusion is the word of God, the word of YHWH is divinely simple. It is man who makes unneeded complexity. The honor due Jesus, being Anointed and given all authority eternally by YHWH in heaven and Earth (except over YHWH), is without parallel, inconceivably more than any man.

Since you asked me a personal question, I will share a pet peeve. I don't like that Proper Names are "translated." The name above all names, the king of kings and lord of lords, the son of God and our savior is named Yeshua. Included in the honor we give to our Savior ought to be to call him by his proper name.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, I can honestly say that I have adequately studied manmade doctrines. Nonsense is nonsense and believing it as true is not a requirement of salvation.

Regarding faith pleasing God, it is faith in YHWH, the Supreme Being, that is pleasing. What is not pleasing are man-made doctrines like 'hypostatic union,' 3=1-ism, man-is-god thesis, dualism (man-god), the church is our mediator to Christ, OSAS, works based salvation, the Supremacy of Rome (the Church is the vicor of Christ), pillboxes along Spiritual journey, sons not created, Mary being the object of prayer and worship, etc.

My conclusion is the word of God, the word of YHWH is divinely simple. It is man who makes unneeded complexity. The honor due Jesus, being Anointed and given all authority eternally by YHWH in heaven and Earth (except over YHWH), is without parallel, inconceivably more than any man.

Since you asked me a personal question, I will share a pet peeve. I don't like that Proper Names are "translated." The name above all names, the king of kings and lord of lords, the son of God and our savior is named Yeshua. Included in the honor we give to our Savior ought to be to call him by his proper name.

As far as the name of "Yeshua"... you can see that I use it myself in my "handle". However, I know enough about the name to realize you can't possibly confirm with absolute certainty that such is the exact proper name of Jesus Christ. If we could, I would certainly make the argument myself. I refuse to.

I don't believe you adequately understand the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union. It took me many years to work through it properly. I spent years meditating upon the teaching because I wanted to know it. I don't believe you've spent the time to really know it. Your words do nothing but convince me more that you have simply rejected it with little effort to actually know it. After all, it was "easy"... right?

I say this with confidence, God isn't simple. That is why Paul asked "who has known the mind of Christ?" Even at the end of his life Paul declared that he had not considered himself to have obtained such knowledge as you declare in simplicity.

Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[Wrangler]

As far as the name of "Yeshua"... you can see that I use it myself in my "handle". However, I know enough about the name to realize you can't possibly confirm with absolute certainty that such is the exact proper name of Jesus Christ.

Yea, someone else spelled it with 2 a's and no e's. Still, phonetically accurate.

I became bother by this sort of thing when I learned the capital of Italy in the native language is "Roma." I was perturbed. Why isn't that the capital of Italy in all languages.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yea, someone else spelled it with 2 a's and no e's. Still, phonetically accurate.

I became bother by this sort of thing when I learned the capital of Italy in the native language is "Roma." I was perturbed. Why isn't that the capital of Italy in all languages.

The problem is just that. You can't possibly know exactly how ancient Hebrew was pronounced.

 

[Clay]

that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10-11

I think if we praised and worshiped Jesus in heaven for 10,000 years we wouldn't come close to the honor due him.