The Elect

Personally, IGNORING the Calvinist doctrines, but looking exclusively at Romans 9, it seems obvious that God DOES call certain people, and HARDENS others according to HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE. Beyond that, I simply don't know.
God has ordained/appointed the non elect to disobedience to the Gospel 1 Pet 2:8

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

This truth is the milk of the word 1 Pet 2:1

Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
 
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@Rowan

Exactly. Here is Paul's showing that the Gentiles will be saved, because they sought God through faith.

Yes Faith that was given them by God when He regenerated them.

God must give Faith, so the Gentiles cant boast about their Faith Rom 11:18-20

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
 
We all make bad choices but rejecting Jesus is the worst choice one could ever make. Choose Jesus choose life.

To believers, He is our dependable rock of salvation (Psalm 18:2). To the unbelieving world, Jesus is the rejected rock of offense that causes them to stumble. Sadly, far too many people, both the religious and the worldly, continue to trip over Him today.

The Bible refers to Jesus as a rock in relation to both believers and unbelievers. To those who put their faith in Him, He is the rock upon which they build their lives (Matthew 7:24–29; 16:13–20). As the solid foundation of the Christian life, Jesus is our rock of salvation (2 Samuel 22:47). But Jesus is a rock of offense to unbelievers. He is a stone that causes non-believers to trip and fall to their own ruin. A person can either put his faith in Jesus Christ and receive life eternal or stumble over Him and face eternal judgment.

The term rock of offense is found in 1 Peter 2:7–8:
“Therefore, to you who believe, He [Jesus] is precious; but to those who are disobedient,
‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,’
and
‘A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.’
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed” (NKJV).

Peter’s illustration of Jesus as a rock of offense to unbelievers is drawn from Isaiah 8:14. The apostle Paul also quoted this Old Testament passage to show that Israel’s unbelief in the past had continued into the present (Romans 9:32–33, ESV). Israel had rejected the Lord in the days of Isaiah just as the Jewish people of the first century rejected Jesus Christ.

Rock of offense literally means “stumbling block.” Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ stumbles and falls over who He is by refusing to see or acknowledge that He is the foundation of spiritual life and relationship with God. The Jews stumbled over their Messiah, so much so that they crucified Him. Paul said he would “preach Christ crucified” even though his message was “a stumbling block to Jews” (1 Corinthians 1:23, ESV). The Jews were expecting a mighty king figure who would overthrow Rome and establish His kingdom on earth. Instead, they encountered in Jesus a lowly servant who would suffer and die.

“They stumble because they do not obey God’s word, and so they meet the fate that was planned for them” (1 Peter 2:8, NLT). Here Peter explains why unbelievers stumble over the cornerstone—because they disobey the Word of God. They refuse to believe the gospel message. They aren’t accidentally stumbling over the rock of offense as people sometimes trip and fall while walking. Peter speaks of willful rebellion. They do not want to submit to God as the Lord over their lives. Thus, if someone rejects Christ, that person’s refusal becomes his own undoing.

From GOT?
 
@Rowan

“They stumble because they do not obey God’s word,

God appointed them to disobey ! Thats the point of 1 Pet 2:8

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
 
@Rowan



Yes Faith that was given them by God when He regenerated them.

God must give Faith, so the Gentiles cant boast about their Faith Rom 11:18-20

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
I respectfully disagree regeneration comes after We have faith and choose to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's the transformation of a person’s spiritual condition from death to life through the work of the Holy Spirit. Regeneration is the act of God making a person spiritually alive, as a result of faith in Jesus Christ. Prior to salvation, we were degenerate, but after salvation, we are regenerated. Regeneration begins the process of sanctification, we become the people God intends us to be.
 
I respectfully disagree regeneration comes after We have faith and choose to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's the transformation of a person’s spiritual condition from death to life through the work of the Holy Spirit. Regeneration is the act of God making a person spiritually alive, as a result of faith in Jesus Christ. Prior to salvation, we were degenerate, but after salvation, we are regenerated. Regeneration begins the process of sanctification, we become the people God intends us to be.

Choose of your own free will to believe that your left sock will bring you riches and fame. Let me know how that goes for you.
 
Exactly. Here is Paul's showing that the Gentiles will be saved, because they sought God through faith. However, even though used by God, the Jewish nation was condemned by God, because they had sought to establish their own righteousness, independent of God, based on perfect obedience to the law.

They had no excuse for their obstinance. God’s rejection and hardening of the Jews was accomplished by requiring them to do the very thing they detested. They had to recognize that God would save the world through one of their brethren, Jesus, and not through the whole nation. They had to trust in God through His Messiah, not their twisted version of the Messiah, not their ancestry, and not their obedience to the law.
Amen
 
Paul said he would “preach Christ crucified” even though his message was “a stumbling block to Jews”.

Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone.

Paul writes that the Jewish people did not seek to be made righteous by faith. They wanted God to declare them righteous based on their works, on their ability to keep the law. As Paul has shown throughout Romans, nobody can keep the law, so nobody can demonstrate their righteousness to God in that way.
 
Paul said he would “preach Christ crucified” even though his message was “a stumbling block to Jews”.

Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone.

Paul writes that the Jewish people did not seek to be made righteous by faith. They wanted God to declare them righteous based on their works, on their ability to keep the law. As Paul has shown throughout Romans, nobody can keep the law, so nobody can demonstrate their righteousness to God in that way.

They wanted to be righteous on their own steam. It's self-centered. "I am holy and righteous because of what I did!!". That's one of the main things about which to repent. It's not all that far from the freewillers of today, who want credit for making the free will decision that ultimately saved them. "I am saved and righteous because of what I chose!!"
 
Just a warning let's tone this down gentleman. Feel free to share your beliefs and in respectful manner. Rude comments are not going to be tolerated.
 
God has ordained/appointed the non elect to disobedience to the Gospel 1 Pet 2:8

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

This truth is the milk of the word 1 Pet 2:1

Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
those disobedient to the word stumble over Christ
 
I respectfully disagree regeneration comes after We have faith and choose to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's the transformation of a person’s spiritual condition from death to life through the work of the Holy Spirit. Regeneration is the act of God making a person spiritually alive, as a result of faith in Jesus Christ. Prior to salvation, we were degenerate, but after salvation, we are regenerated. Regeneration begins the process of sanctification, we become the people God intends us to be.
Of course you know I respectfully disagree with you.
 
One of the difficult parts of evaluating Calvinism is being able to understand what is meant by the obscurant language that is often employed when they are seeking to present some of the most objectionable components of Calvinism in an attractive manner.

If a person is not aware of these more biblically troubling ideas of Calvinism, one can settle into a very palatable but inconsistent Calvinism. I believe we should speak and write so as to be clearly understood.

Getting upset and angry with each other is not going to help in our communication. They're only leads to hate and discontent. And we're called to love one another.

That is not to say all subjects are equally easy to grasp. Rather, we should not write and speak in a way that obscures what we are saying about the non-negotiables of our beliefs. With Calvinists, this usually involves eliding the entailments of the commitments and doctrines of Calvinism.

I believe we're all entitled to our opinions and beliefs. If mine don't agree with yours then I hope we could use the iron sharpens iron approach.

I realize these are complicated topics that were discussing in this section of the form. But I think we can all learn from each other.
 
Of course you know I respectfully disagree with you.
Well you are in error trying to impart life apart from Christ

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
Thats a excuse ! Does God love these sinners Ps 5:5
Sin = this body.
God did not create it and He hates it.

It is not the body He made for us in paradise.

I told the truth. Not an excuse..
but the reason Jacob is left behind...because he follows
the corrupt scroll.

Corruption of what He said is what is not okay.
 
Well you are in error trying to impart life apart from Christ

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Well yeah there is that. I think it shows that God truly does salvationally love every single person. He says he loves all humanity desires everyone to be saved. "Who wishes all men to be saved and [increasingly] to perceive and recognize and discern and know precisely and correctly the [divine] Truth."1 Timothy 2:4

And he demonstrates this love by providing everything needed, including opportunity, for every person to know him and be saved.

Some will choose to believe in Jesus and some will reject him.
 
Well yeah there is that. I think it shows that God truly does salvationally love every single person. He says he loves all humanity desires everyone to be saved. "Who wishes all men to be saved and [increasingly] to perceive and recognize and discern and know precisely and correctly the [divine] Truth."1 Timothy 2:4

And he demonstrates this love by providing everything needed, including opportunity, for every person to know him and be saved.

Some will choose to believe in Jesus and some will reject him.
Yes, but life is had only in him. Calvinism however wants to impart life apart from Christ
 
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