The Elect
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
You should then rejoice as he is doling the will of God according to your theology
brightfame52
Well-known member
Thats a excuse ! Does God love these sinners Ps 5:5
civic
Well-known member
All sinners
Romans 5:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Right, I take comfort in Matt 5:10-12
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Thats false, God doesnt love these ones Ps 5:5
civic
Well-known member
Pre text = eisegesis
brightfame52
Well-known member
Thats the Justified elect He died for. Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
He died for all
Christ died list
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Exported from Logos Bible Software, 10:16 AM March 4, 2024.
Wrong context
The issue is scoffing which according to your theology was determined
brightfame52
Well-known member
He died for all the elect/sheep
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its the correct context
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
It's a bad translation. According to @civic it should be:
The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes;
You love less all who do iniquity.
Richard
Active member
The Two Paths Psalms 1–6
(Matthew 5:3–12; Luke 6:20–23)
BLESSED (HAPPY, fortunate, prosperous, and enviable) is the man who walks and lives not in the counsel of the ungodly [following their advice, their plans and purposes], nor stands [submissive and inactive] in the path where sinners walk, nor sits down [to relax and rest] where the scornful [and the mockers] gather.
2 But his delight and desire are in the law of the Lord, and on His law (the precepts, the instructions, the teachings of God) he habitually meditates (ponders and studies) by day and by night. [Rom. 13:8-10; Gal. 3:1-29; II Tim. 3:16.]
3 And he shall be like a tree firmly planted [and tended] by the streams of water, ready to bring forth its fruit in its season; its leaf also shall not fade or wither; and everything he does shall prosper [and come to maturity]. [Jer. 17:7, 8.]
4 Not so the wicked [those disobedient and living without God are not so]. But they are like the chaff [worthless, dead, without substance] which the wind drives away.
5 Therefore the wicked [those disobedient and living without God] shall not stand [justified] in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous [those who are upright and in right standing with God].
6 For the Lord knows and is fully acquainted with the way of the righteous, but the way of the ungodly [those living outside God’s will] shall perish (end in ruin and come to nought).
The Amplified Bible, Ps 1:1–6.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Personally, IGNORING the Calvinist doctrines, but looking exclusively at Romans 9, it seems obvious that God DOES call certain people, and HARDENS others according to HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE. Beyond that, I simply don't know.
Richard
Active member
Thanks for your honesty Bob. I don't think any of know all we can do is speculate. Although Calvinists claim that Romans 9 eliminates all possibility of ”free will,” this cannot be so, because free will can be plainly seen in the rest of Scripture as something God has sovereignly given to man. Although God is sovereign, He has given the choice between life and death to men, and urged them to choose life.
I think Paul is speaking of the state of a nation, not individuals In Romans 9:1-9
I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
Paul explains that although most national Israelites are causing him “continual grief” due to their rejection of the gospel, it isn’t that the Word of God has not accomplished what it set out to do. It isn’t that the promise to Abraham has failed to come true. For “they are not all Israel who are of Israel.” Not all the physical Israelites belong to the “Israel of God” that is, the Commonwealth of Israel and Household of God to which both Jews and Gentiles belong by faith .
Paul is saying that it is not all physical Jews "children of the flesh" who will be saved, but those who are “children of the promise”–that is, all those who have faith like Abraham. It's a good idea to keep this theme in mind when reading the rest of Romans 9.
John 3:16 (ESV) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Paul clearly shows
Romans 9:30–32 (ESV) — 30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,
The obtaining of righteousness is by faith
Rowan
Active member
Exactly. Here is Paul's showing that the Gentiles will be saved, because they sought God through faith. However, even though used by God, the Jewish nation was condemned by God, because they had sought to establish their own righteousness, independent of God, based on perfect obedience to the law.
They had no excuse for their obstinance. God’s rejection and hardening of the Jews was accomplished by requiring them to do the very thing they detested. They had to recognize that God would save the world through one of their brethren, Jesus, and not through the whole nation. They had to trust in God through His Messiah, not their twisted version of the Messiah, not their ancestry, and not their obedience to the law.
