The Elect

Gods Love is discriminate, He Loves only some and hates the rest Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

And its only in Christ Jesus Rom 8 39

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If people arent born into this world In Christ Jesus, God doesnt Love them
wrong it means to love less in the context just like it does when Jesus said unless you hate your mother, father, siblings etc.......

a text without the context is a pretext for a proof text- you are a proof texter. (eisegesis )

context in King ! (exegesis )
 
Huh ? Believers like Isaac are Abrahams seed of promise, and Christ doesnt have a physical offspring, its Spiritual Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Now how did Isaac become a child of promise ? Exactly what did he do ?

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son

I'm always intrigued by that statement, since Ishmael was also Abraham's son. Therefore "only begotten" has a special meaning here, which I believe denotes Isaac as the begotten child of promise.
 
wrong it means to love less in the context just like it does when Jesus said unless you hate your mother, father, siblings etc.......

a text without the context is a pretext for a proof text- you are a proof texter. (eisegesis )

context in King ! (exegesis )

So God is love can mean God can love some less than He loves others? Interesting.
 
Huh ? Believers like Isaac are Abrahams seed of promise, and Christ doesnt have a physical offspring, its Spiritual Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Now how did Isaac become a child of promise ? Exactly what did he do ?
He was born as a child of the free woman and that God's purpose in election might stand
 
So God is love can mean God can love some less than He loves others? Interesting.
no hate means to love less. :)

miseó: to hate

Original Word:
μισέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: miseó
Phonetic Spelling: (mis-eh'-o)
Definition: to hate
Usage: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less.

HELPS Word-studies

3404
miséō – properly, to detest (on a comparativebasis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another.

Lk 14:26: "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate (3404 /miséō, 'love less' than the Lord) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple" (NASU).

[Note the comparative meaning of 3404 (miséō) which centers in moral choice, elevating one value over another.]

to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment (Gn 29:31; Dt 21:15, 16) Mt 6:24; Lk 16:13. τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ J 12:25 or ἑαυτοῦ Lk 14:26 (cp. the formulation Plut, Mor. 556d οὐδʼ ἐμίσουν ἑαυτούς; on the theme cp. Tyrtaeus [VII B.C.] 8, 5 D.3). Ro 9:13 BDAG


BDAG.
② to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment (Gn 29:31; Dt 21:15, 16) Mt 6:24; Lk 16:13. τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ J 12:25 or ἑαυτοῦ Lk 14:26 (cp. the formulation Plut, Mor. 556d οὐδʼ ἐμίσουν ἑαυτούς; on the theme cp. Tyrtaeus [VII B.C.] 8, 5 D.3). Ro 9:13 (Mal 1:2f). Perh. 2 Cl 6:6 (s. 1b). (JDenney, The Word ‘Hate’ in Lk 14:26: ET 21, 1910, 41f; WBleibtreu, Paradoxe Aussprüche Jesu: Theol. Arbeiten aus d. wissensch. Prediger-Verein d. Rheinprovinz, new ser. 20, 24, 15–35; RSockman, The Paradoxes of J. ’36).—ACarr, The Mng. of ‘Hatred’ in the NT: Exp. 6th ser., 12, 1905, 153–60.—DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW.

And here is a Greek Scholar/Teacher Robert Mounce

I loved, but Esau I hated” (Mal 1:2–3). This should not be interpreted to mean that God actually hated Esau. The strong contrast is a Semitic idiom that heightens the comparison by stating it in absolute terms. 17

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995), 198–199.

Berkeley softens the contrast translating, “To Jacob I was drawn, but Esau I repudiated” (the NRSV has “chose” and “rejected”). In discussing the “hatred” of God, Michel comments that it “is not so much an emotion as a rejection in will and deed” (TDNT 4.687).

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995).

Here are more renown Scholars

Esau I hated. I.e., “loved less,” according to an ancient Near Eastern hyperbole. It expresses the lack of gratuitous election of Esau and the Edomites (Idumaeans). See Gen 29:30–31: “he loved Rachel more than Leah …; when the Lord saw that Leah was hated …”; cf. Deut 21:15–17; compare Luke 14:26 (“hate”) with Matt 10:37 (“love more”). There is no hint here of predestination to “grace” or “glory” of an individual; it is an expression of the choice of corporate Israel over corporate Edom.

Joseph A. Fitzmyer S.J., Romans: A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary, vol. 33, Anchor Yale Bible (New Haven; London: Yale University Press, 2008), 563.

13. Characteristically Paul backs up his argument with a quotation from Scripture, this one from Malachi 1:2–3: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Two questions are important here: Is Paul referring to nations or individuals? and What is meant by hated? As to the first, we have just seen that the Genesis passage refers primarily to nations and we would expect that to continue here. That this is the case seems clear from what Malachi writes about Esau: “Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals” (Mal. 1:3). Both in Genesis and Malachi the reference is clearly to nations, and we should accept this as Paul’s meaning accordingly.

The meaning of hated is a different kind of problem. There is a difficulty in that Scripture speaks of a love of God for the whole world (John 3:16) and the meaning of “God is love” (1 John 4:8, 16) is surely that God loves, quite irrespective of merit or demerit in the beloved. Specifically he is said to love sinners (Rom. 5:8). It is also true that in Scripture there are cases where “hate” seems clearly to mean “love less” (e.g., Gen. 29:31, 33; Deut. 21:15; Matt. 6:24; Luke 14:26; John 12:25). Many find this an acceptable solution here: God loved Esau (and the nation Edom) less than he loved Jacob (and Israel). But it is perhaps more likely that like Calvin we should understand the expression in the sense “reject” over against “accept”. He explains the passage thus: “I chose Jacob and rejected Esau, induced to this course by my mercy alone, and not by any worthiness in his works.… I had rejected the Edomites.…” This accords with the stress throughout this passage on the thought of election for service. God chose Israel for this role; he did not so choose Edom. Leon Morris, The Epistle to the Romans,

hope this helps !!!
 
no hate means to love less. :)

miseó: to hate

Original Word:
μισέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: miseó
Phonetic Spelling: (mis-eh'-o)
Definition: to hate
Usage: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less.

HELPS Word-studies

3404
miséō – properly, to detest (on a comparativebasis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another.

Lk 14:26: "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate (3404 /miséō, 'love less' than the Lord) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple" (NASU).

[Note the comparative meaning of 3404 (miséō) which centers in moral choice, elevating one value over another.]

to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment (Gn 29:31; Dt 21:15, 16) Mt 6:24; Lk 16:13. τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ J 12:25 or ἑαυτοῦ Lk 14:26 (cp. the formulation Plut, Mor. 556d οὐδʼ ἐμίσουν ἑαυτούς; on the theme cp. Tyrtaeus [VII B.C.] 8, 5 D.3). Ro 9:13 BDAG


BDAG.
② to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment (Gn 29:31; Dt 21:15, 16) Mt 6:24; Lk 16:13. τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ J 12:25 or ἑαυτοῦ Lk 14:26 (cp. the formulation Plut, Mor. 556d οὐδʼ ἐμίσουν ἑαυτούς; on the theme cp. Tyrtaeus [VII B.C.] 8, 5 D.3). Ro 9:13 (Mal 1:2f). Perh. 2 Cl 6:6 (s. 1b). (JDenney, The Word ‘Hate’ in Lk 14:26: ET 21, 1910, 41f; WBleibtreu, Paradoxe Aussprüche Jesu: Theol. Arbeiten aus d. wissensch. Prediger-Verein d. Rheinprovinz, new ser. 20, 24, 15–35; RSockman, The Paradoxes of J. ’36).—ACarr, The Mng. of ‘Hatred’ in the NT: Exp. 6th ser., 12, 1905, 153–60.—DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW.

And here is a Greek Scholar/Teacher Robert Mounce

I loved, but Esau I hated” (Mal 1:2–3). This should not be interpreted to mean that God actually hated Esau. The strong contrast is a Semitic idiom that heightens the comparison by stating it in absolute terms. 17

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995), 198–199.

Berkeley softens the contrast translating, “To Jacob I was drawn, but Esau I repudiated” (the NRSV has “chose” and “rejected”). In discussing the “hatred” of God, Michel comments that it “is not so much an emotion as a rejection in will and deed” (TDNT 4.687).

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995).

Here are more renown Scholars

Esau I hated. I.e., “loved less,” according to an ancient Near Eastern hyperbole. It expresses the lack of gratuitous election of Esau and the Edomites (Idumaeans). See Gen 29:30–31: “he loved Rachel more than Leah …; when the Lord saw that Leah was hated …”; cf. Deut 21:15–17; compare Luke 14:26 (“hate”) with Matt 10:37 (“love more”). There is no hint here of predestination to “grace” or “glory” of an individual; it is an expression of the choice of corporate Israel over corporate Edom.

Joseph A. Fitzmyer S.J., Romans: A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary, vol. 33, Anchor Yale Bible (New Haven; London: Yale University Press, 2008), 563.

13. Characteristically Paul backs up his argument with a quotation from Scripture, this one from Malachi 1:2–3: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Two questions are important here: Is Paul referring to nations or individuals? and What is meant by hated? As to the first, we have just seen that the Genesis passage refers primarily to nations and we would expect that to continue here. That this is the case seems clear from what Malachi writes about Esau: “Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals” (Mal. 1:3). Both in Genesis and Malachi the reference is clearly to nations, and we should accept this as Paul’s meaning accordingly.

The meaning of hated is a different kind of problem. There is a difficulty in that Scripture speaks of a love of God for the whole world (John 3:16) and the meaning of “God is love” (1 John 4:8, 16) is surely that God loves, quite irrespective of merit or demerit in the beloved. Specifically he is said to love sinners (Rom. 5:8). It is also true that in Scripture there are cases where “hate” seems clearly to mean “love less” (e.g., Gen. 29:31, 33; Deut. 21:15; Matt. 6:24; Luke 14:26; John 12:25). Many find this an acceptable solution here: God loved Esau (and the nation Edom) less than he loved Jacob (and Israel). But it is perhaps more likely that like Calvin we should understand the expression in the sense “reject” over against “accept”. He explains the passage thus: “I chose Jacob and rejected Esau, induced to this course by my mercy alone, and not by any worthiness in his works.… I had rejected the Edomites.…” This accords with the stress throughout this passage on the thought of election for service. God chose Israel for this role; he did not so choose Edom. Leon Morris, The Epistle to the Romans,

hope this helps !!!

I repeat: So God is love can mean God can love some less than He loves others? Interesting.
 
wrong it means to love less in the context just like it does when Jesus said unless you hate your mother, father, siblings etc.......

a text without the context is a pretext for a proof text- you are a proof texter. (eisegesis )

context in King ! (exegesis )
No it means hate, love means love
 
Gods Love is discriminate, He Loves only some and hates the rest Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
fulfilled many years after their death

Malachi 1:1–5 (KJV 1900) — 1 THE burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi. 2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the LORD: Yet I loved Jacob, 3 And I hated Esau, And laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. 4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, But we will return and build the desolate places; Thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; And they shall call them, The border of wickedness, And, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever. 5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.

It was fulfilled in the posterity of Jacob and Esaum in God's selection of Israel over Edom

and not a personal soteriological hatred of Jacob

and nor was it unconditional

Obadiah 8–14 (ESV) — 8 Will I not on that day, declares the LORD, destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of Mount Esau? 9 And your mighty men shall be dismayed, O Teman, so that every man from Mount Esau will be cut off by slaughter. 10 Because of the violence done to your brother Jacob, shame shall cover you, and you shall be cut off forever. 11 On the day that you stood aloof, on the day that strangers carried off his wealth and foreigners entered his gates and cast lots for Jerusalem, you were like one of them. 12 But do not gloat over the day of your brother in the day of his misfortune; do not rejoice over the people of Judah in the day of their ruin; do not boast in the day of distress. 13 Do not enter the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; do not gloat over his disaster in the day of his calamity; do not loot his wealth in the day of his calamity. 14 Do not stand at the crossroads to cut off his fugitives; do not hand over his survivors in the day of distress.
 
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son

I'm always intrigued by that statement, since Ishmael was also Abraham's son. Therefore "only begotten" has a special meaning here, which I believe denotes Isaac as the begotten child of promise.
And so are believers, they are spiritually begotten of the Spirit to show they are Abrahams Spiritual Offspring. They were produced by Gods promise as was Isaac
 
No it means hate, love means love
Nope it mean to love less like the Greek lexicon says . You deny the original language of the Bible and hold your doctrines about scandalous the clear meaning of biblical words , you twist them and give them a different meaning to support your heretical teaching about God.

This is where most Calvinists will separate themselves from the hyper- Calvinist which you are .

Let God be True and every man found to be a liar.

hope this helps !!!
 
And so are believers, they are spiritually begotten of the Spirit to show they are Abrahams Spiritual Offspring. They were produced by Gods promise as was Isaac
After they believe

John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
 
Nope it mean to love less like the Greek lexicon says . You deny the original language of the Bible and hold your doctrines about scandalous the clear meaning of biblical words , you twist them and give them a different meaning to support your heretical teaching about God.

This is where most Calvinists will separate themselves from the hyper- Calvinist which you are .

Let God be True and every man found to be a liar.

hope this helps !!!
The none elect are hated by God, despised by God Ps 53:5

There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.

These are the hated workers of iniquity Ps 53:4

4 Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread: they have not called upon God.
 
After they believe

John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
No they are spiritually begotten so they can believe and show themselves to be Abrahams Spiritual Offspring. Just like Issac, he was Abrahams Spiritual seed prior to being born after the Spirit

And Jn 1:12 is clarified by Vs 13,

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Thats why they received Christ,

The natural man doesnt and cant receive Christ 1 Cor 2:14
 
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son

I'm always intrigued by that statement, since Ishmael was also Abraham's son. Therefore "only begotten" has a special meaning here, which I believe denotes Isaac as the begotten child of promise.

It only has application in Jesus Christ. Abraham lived the Gospel. Isaac never saved anyone.
 
Nobody said Isaac saved anyone, why you always slandering and misrepresenting someone because they dont agree with you ?

So what meaning is there for Isaac to be the "promise".

You're the one that mentioned the "promise" in application. I dealt with what you said.

The fact you can't do complex "math" is not my problem. It is your problem. I can. You're misrepresenting the application.

You don't even have enough knowledge about theology to understand much of anything. You really shouldn't be having adult theological conversations.

All you're doing is showing your hate for your own brothers in Adam. You have a hate filled religion.
 
So what meaning is there for Isaac to be the "promise".

You're the one that mentioned the "promise" in application. I dealt with what you said.

The fact you can't do complex "math" is not my problem. It is your problem. I can. You're misrepresenting the application.

You don't even have enough knowledge about theology to understand much of anything. You really shouldn't be having adult theological conversations.

All you're doing is showing your hate for your own brothers in Adam. You have a hate filled religion.
Isaac is a child of promise, he was promised to Abraham and Sarah. This doesnt excuse your slanderous ways
 
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