praise_yeshua
Well-known member
God doesn't need Glory from us. God doesn't need glory from sin. You are still preaching a false gospel that declares that God created evil so Christ could die for it. You have made Christ the servant of sin/evil.
The Elect
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
God doesn't need Glory from us. God doesn't need glory from sin. You are still preaching a false gospel that declares that God created evil so Christ could die for it. You have made Christ the servant of sin/evil.
Berean Standard Bible
Prov 16:4 The LORD has made everything for His purpose—even the wicked for the day of disaster. refers to HIS creation of their LIVES (not their beings) as the ultimate bad examples (Matt 13:27-30) so the sinful elect, the sinful people of His kingdom, could see the effects of evil in practical (ie, not theoretical) terms and learn to choose only righteousness.
I believe it was the gnostic sect that believed that GOD created evil and needed evil to fulfill HIS purposes, not the Christian sect.
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If I may:
I find it funny that while infra and supra lapsarianism are openly discussed, the idea of supra-lapsarianism, that election to salvation was offered before the fall of anyone, is habitually ignored.
brightfame52
Well-known member
More Slander
An unacceptable conceit, (something conceived in the mind; an idea, a thought), contrary to the more acceptable concept of GOD as holy and loving.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The Lord made the wicked !
...but it serves the gnostic definitions of their god.
brightfame52
Well-known member
This world was made for a Redemptive Purpose. Was God Glorified by Christ when He came to die for Sin ?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You're like a little child that only has 1 red block and 1 blue block in his playground construction set. It is either red or it is blue.
You need to realize that God is far more complicated than your red and blue theology will allow.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Jesus had Glory long before Calvary.
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
You've made sin the "glory" of God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Did the Lord make the wicked for the day of evil Prov 16:4
4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
There is also a translation issue. The Greek OT has a vastly different reading in Proverbs 16. There isn't a verse 4 in the Greek OT.
In fact, even Jerome couldn't use a Hebrew text for His version of the Vulgate for proverbs 16. (There are multiple versions of the Vulgate) throughout history.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
No. He didn't. I tried to lead you to the answer. You don't want to learn anything that might change your mind.
I've been deal with these claims you're making for decades. This isn't anything new to me. Just senselss banter from you.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Was Jesus Glorified by His death for sin ? Yes or No Jn 12:23-24
23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Then you flat out deny the scripture Prov 16:4
4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Sure ... but imCo, this world was not to express HIS glory in OUR CREATION since ALL the sons of GOD were already created before the universe as proven by their singing HIS praises when they saw the creation of this physical universe, Job 38:7.
Creation of the physical universe (not of all the spirits in HIS image) happened after the fall to be the place to express HIS glory in our redemption by His sacrifice as you mention but we and the evil we chose was already self created by each sinner before the universe was created.
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praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You are quoting an English translation. Proverbs was not written in English. Neither the Greek OT nor the Targum have these words. Not even close.
The Targum has
לא תתן שינתא לעינך וניומתא לגבינך for verse #4.
By all means. Find the English translation. Put forth the effort to know history. Stop accepting the easiest path to knowledge. Do the work yourself. Don't just repeat yourself and others.
By whom?
brightfame52
Well-known member
Then sin was ordained by God for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ. Its the Eternal Purpose:
Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
brightfame52
Well-known member
Then you flat out deny the scripture Prov 16:4
4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
