praise_yeshua
Well-known member
So you believe we all among the elect?
So when you see faith in others, you believe God has chosen them?
I've never meet a Calvinist that actually believes this.
The Elect
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
So you believe we all among the elect?
So when you see faith in others, you believe God has chosen them?
I've never meet a Calvinist that actually believes this.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I have no idea. But I'll say this. Read this whole forum, and see who you believe is most at peace. Those who give 100% Glory to God for everything, including their ability to believe, or those who prattle on endlessly about how Calvinism is bad?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You don't give 100 percent Glory to God. No one does. Not you. Not I. Not anyone. Christ alone always pleased the Father.
You're trying to make yourself feel good about what you've chosen. We all do this. Some more than others. You're not challenging yourself in much of anything you believe.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Let me be more specific. I give 100% of the Glory to God for my salvation. Of course I don't mean that in everything I do.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I give 100% Glory to God for salvation.
Do you see how you said "my salvation" and I didn't. Salvation is of the Lord.
Both Arminianism and Calvinism both do not equal = 100 percent Glory to God. Which is why I do not support either choice. I have problems with both. Arminians sometimes tend to see repentance as work of their own efforts. (Not all Arminians are the same). Calvinists tend only see themselves in Salvation.
Targeted Conformity before this world was ever formed proves that Salvation is Christ Centered alone.
Salvation has always been about Christ alone. We will be conformed to His Image or we will have no part in Him.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Free-willism gives partial credit for salvation to man. Free-willism believes man's decision is the hinge and turning point of his own salvation. Therefore man must have some of the Glory.
civic
Well-known member
no it does not that the caricature made by calvinists/monergists. I know God saved me by His grace, mercy. But God did not believe for me or cause me to believe. God opened my mind/heart to hear the gospel and I ( not God making me ) responded in faith. I placed my trust, hope, faith, belief in Him. God did not do that for me nor does God make me obey Him. That is my choice/decision to walk in His ways, obey Him etc.....
God moves first, He is the first cause, He draws, convicts and man must either accept or reject that call. We do the receiving/believing. Grace precedes life, faith always. Man must believe then life is given, not before. Faith comes before life.
hope this helps !!!
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Rockson
Well-known member
Whatever do you mean? There's even a lot of atheists' that understand the doctrines of Calvinism. And Jesus said there will be many who thought they had FAITH in God and you know he'll tell them to depart. And I'm not suggesting you'll be a part of the number I truly hope not.....but you just can't say well you have faith in God therefore you're the elect. Has your faith in God (and I include myself) does our faith in God move us into obedience of his will?
Rockson
Well-known member
Right on!
Shows a lack of understanding regarding faith.
Faith is the renunciation of self effort and depending on another for salvation
The flip side is for everyone who does not believe God's decree and determination is the reason why.
makesends
Well-known member
You're repeating yourself. So I will repeat myself: God doesn't 'have to' do anything.
makesends
Well-known member
In Scripture we are servants, even vessels, here by God for God's reasons. Not by God for our reasons.
We are here for his use.
We are not even complete beings, until we see him as he is, and are glorified.
Well the fact is he did to prevent belief
John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
and seeing as your theology states man is born unable to believe the verse is contrary to it
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
This doesn't establish your scenario where God discriminately applies mercy to mankind without explanation. When someone says God does something and then refuses to explain why... You can "Mark it down". It is nothing more then self serving malarkey.
2 Timothy 2:20–21 (ESV) — 20 Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable. 21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
That is like giving the government credit for providing water in infrastructure when you can collect it yourself. Water wouldn't exist without God. All the Glory goes to God. There is no power in accepting the work of another.
civic
Well-known member
Correct but promises He will.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Calvinism nothing more than a self glorifying means to blame God for what man does himself.
makesends
Well-known member
To repeat myself: The subjunctive mode given in the negative designates purpose—not implication that the negative is actually possible.
civic
Well-known member
or that God meticulously predetermined they must do yet God is not to blame for their sin. It's having your cake and eating it too. It cannot work both ways it's a contradiction , an oxymoron. It's like the WCF that tries getting God off the hook for everything that comes to pass, He designed and determined would happen with the exception of sin/evil. That's the problem they have when they reject free will which is the answer to their dilemma.
