The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
"They fell down before the Lanb" means that they worshiped the Lamb and offered the bowls forward to the Lamb. Not that it was their bowls to keep and they spilled the bowls.
It shows that Unitarians are still novices in the word of God.
Runningman
Well-known member
Not how any inspired writer of Scripture ever prayed. I am going with what the holy men of God did. You're free to copy whoever you wish.
Runningman
Well-known member
Doesn't mean worship. You know good and well that if they could have snaked that translation into the Scripture then the trins would have been all over that. No honest way to do it. None have translated any Bible's that way as far as I can tell."They fell down before the Lanb" means that they worshiped the Lamb and offered the bowls forward to the Lamb. Not that it was their bowls to keep and they spilled the bowls.
Your version of them holding on to the bowls as theirs and falling over and spilling the bowls is just too hilarious. You gave me a good laugh for a minute or two. I'm still chuckling about it. Thanks for that.
Runningman
Well-known member
You would interpret it that way because that aligns with what you already believe. At least I have the Scripture on my side. I'll take it.
I'm still have bursts of laughter thinking about your warped version of them falling over and spilling their bowls. This is a classic case of how unitarianism warps one's perception of reality.
Runningman
Well-known member
I am quite amused that @TomL tried to use Rev. 5:8 as a prooftext and it proves the elders and creatures got the prayers before the Lamb did.
Don't run away from your hilarious bumbling version. You should take full credit for that comedic hapless version you dreamt up.I am quite amused that @TomL tried to use Rev. 5:8 as a prooftext and it proves the elders and creatures got the prayers before the Lamb did.
Runningman
Well-known member
The Lamb (the one who broke the 7th seal) is clearly not God in the below passage. The prayers are going to God not the Lamb.
Revelation 8 (NIV)
1When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.
2And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.
3Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God’s people, on the golden altar in front of the throne. 4The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of God’s people, went up before God from the angel’s hand. 5Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and hurled it on the earth; and there came peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning and an earthquake.
I am quite amused that your argument would also require an angel got the prayers to God ahead of himI am quite amused that @TomL tried to use Rev. 5:8 as a prooftext and it proves the elders and creatures got the prayers before the Lamb did.
Revelation 8:3–4 (KJV 1900) — 3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.
You really do need to get better arguments
Dumb argument
Prayers are presented up to God in a similar manner
Revelation 8:3–4 (KJV 1900) — 3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.
And where is Jesus? On His Father's Throne, a recipient (along with the Father) of all the prayers being offered in front of the Father's Throne.
21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Keep those Trinitarian verses coming!
Runningman
Well-known member
Which means the angels, elders, living creatures, and the Lamb aren't being prayed to despite their possession of said prayers. Back to the drawing board for you. When are you just going to give up and accept the Bible only teaches to pray to God the Father?
Runningman
Well-known member
Mine was a good argument.
Brilliant. You have now just converted Jesus into an angel who gives the prayers to God. Are you sure you aren't JW? This is probably one of their proof texts.
Runningman
Well-known member
You're taking it way too far again. You cannot conflate the throne of the Lamb with God without also including the throne of the Christians as God's throne. Christian's aren't prayed to or worshipped then neither is the Lamb.
21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Keep those Unitarian verses coming!
Nobody is conflating the 2 Thrones, least of all me. This brings up a very interesting situation here. Since both Thrones are not the same, how can Jesus be simultaneously on both Thrones at the same time? Jesus is most certainly not a Throne Absentee currently for however short a time. This stretches your Judaizing Unitarianism to the fracture point.
Runningman
Well-known member
Revelation 3:21, under your interpretation, promotes idolatry. It doesn't mean the ones who overcome and the Lamb are God. It means they are given authority, but obviously are not ruling as God. The throne Jesus has was given to him by God, his Father, and is owned by God, but isn't the throne of God.
Revelation 2:26-27 should clear up what Jesus meant.
Revelation 2:26-27 (NIV)
26To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father.
Compared to...
Revelation 3 21-22 (NIV)
21To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.
These are rewards for Jesus and his people not about becoming God.
You keep brewing up strawmen and keep running away from what scripture reveals.
My point is not that Jesus is God because he has authority. That's a pure strawman on your part My point is that the Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry. That's my point. Your keep running away from it and that proves that you named yourself very well.
Scripture reveals that both Thrones are not the same. So how can Jesus be simultaneously on both Thrones at the same time? Jesus is most certainly not a Throne Absentee currently for however short a time. That proves that Christ is omnipresent which utterly destroys your beloved Judaizing Unitarianism.
.
Nope it was a dumb argument
there is nothing there about Jesus giving the prayers to the father
You are adding to and inventing scripture again while ignoring the point raised
runningman runs
