The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

[TomL]

Which means the angels, elders, living creatures, and the Lamb aren't being prayed to despite their possession of said prayers. Back to the drawing board for you. When are you just going to give up and accept the Bible only teaches to pray to God the Father?

Sorry no

There is nothing there about Jesus delivering prayers;

Again you add to scripture what is not there.

 

[Runningman]

You keep brewing up strawmen and keep running away from what scripture reveals.

My point is not that Jesus is God because he has authority. That's a pure strawman on your part My point is that the Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry. That's my point. Your keep running away from it and that proves that you named yourself very well.

Scripture reveals that both Thrones are not the same. So how can Jesus be simultaneously on both Thrones at the same time? Jesus is most certainly not a Throne Absentee currently for however short a time. That proves that Christ is omnipresent which utterly destroys your beloved Judaizing Unitarianism.

.

I have essentially just been repeating the same thing for several days to you. The throne that Jesus sits on is the same throne the Christians who overcome will sit on. Not a good verse to demonstrate Jesus is allegedly God without bringing the entire church into your godhead as equals with God in authority.

The reference to sitting on the Father’s throne refers to sitting on the throne that God gave him. It’s Jesus’ throne but Father owns it. Therefore it’s the Father’s throne and Jesus sits on it as well as hose who overcome.

Hebrews 1:8 confirms this because a valid translation of it isn’t that Jesus is on the throne of God, but rather can be translated as “God is your throne" as a number of Bibles confirm.

The RSV, NRSV, ASV Bibles say in the footnote for Hebrews 1:8 “God is thy throne” is a possible translation.

The NET Bible says a possible translation is “Your throne is God forever and ever…” in Hebrews 1:8.

So there is good precedent for Jesus’ throne being owned by God and not literally God’s throne. Or else Christians become God. Your ideas about Jesus being God always go too far and end up not making any sense in scripture.

 

[Runningman]

Sorry no

There is nothing there about Jesus delivering prayers;

Again you add to scripture what is not there.

Nothing there about praying to Jesus. Give it up already.

 

[TomL]

Nothing there about praying to Jesus. Give it up already.

Again nothing but denial

You were given many examples

you just denied it was prayer

Obviously you have a selective definition where prayer is only prayer when it agrees with your doctrine

oh and you ignored this as well

Revelation 5:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

 

[synergy]

I have essentially just been repeating the same thing for several days to you. The throne that Jesus sits on is the same throne the Christians who overcome will sit on. Not a good verse to demonstrate Jesus is allegedly God without bringing the entire church into your godhead as equals with God in authority.

The reference to sitting on the Father’s throne refers to sitting on the throne that God gave him. It’s Jesus’ throne but Father owns it. Therefore it’s the Father’s throne and Jesus sits on it as well as hose who overcome.

So everyone sits on the same one Father's Throne? Seriously? Your predicament is even worse than I thought. Now everyone who offers worship towards the Throne of God is guilty of idolizing not just Jesus but all the Saints also according to Unitarian heresies! Saints Alive!

Hebrews 1:8 confirms this because a valid translation of it isn’t that Jesus is on the throne of God, but rather can be translated as “God is your throne" as a number of Bibles confirm.

The RSV, NRSV, ASV Bibles say in the footnote for Hebrews 1:8 “God is thy throne” is a possible translation.

The NET Bible says a possible translation is “Your throne is God forever and ever…” in Hebrews 1:8.

So there is good precedent for Jesus’ throne being owned by God and not literally God’s throne. Or else Christians become God. Your ideas about Jesus being God always go too far and end up not making any sense in scripture.

Now you want to change Rev 3:21 from "His Throne" to "God is your Throne"???? It's not beneath unitarians to intentionally altar Bible verses so that they can appease their judaizing god. This is a classic example of this.

 

[synergy]

Nothing there about praying to Jesus. Give it up already.

The only way that's possible is we believe your wacky interpretation that the elders and creatures in Rev 5:8 fell down thus spilling their prayer bowls. I still chuckle at how you portray elders and creatures as bumbling and hapless.

Revelation 5:8 (NASB 2020) — 8 When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

 

[Richard]

Who is Stephen praying to?

And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Acts 7:59

Oh wait... that's not praying as he just got hit in the head with a rock and was delusional.

 

[TomL]

The only way that's possible is we believe your wacky interpretation that the elders and creatures in Rev 5:8 fell down thus spilling their prayer bowls. I still chuckle at how you portray elders and creatures as bumbling and hapless.

Revelation 5:8 (NASB 2020) — 8 When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

He only believes scripture when he thinks it supports his theology

 

[synergy]

He only believes scripture when he thinks it supports his theology

Yes. His credibility has been shot through with so many holes that you can drive a dump truck through it. At this point, all we can do is humour him on his myths, delusions, and fairy tales.

 

[civic]

Yes. His credibility has been shot through with so many holes that you can drive a dump truck through it. At this point, all we can do is humour him on his myths, delusions, and fairy tales.

like I said in another thread a moment ago its nothing but presuppositionalism at work adding their manmade ideas and imposing them upon the biblical text and narrative. its an attack on the nature, person and work of Christ. And I like that we have some excellent defenders of the Deity of Christ on our forum. I can think of a dozen or more members off the top of my head.

 

[Runningman]

Again nothing but denial

You were given many examples

you just denied it was prayer

Obviously you have a selective definition where prayer is only prayer when it agrees with your doctrine

oh and you ignored this as well

Revelation 5:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

You have zero argument and don’t know how to quit digging Tom. Rev 5:8 again. Wow. So elders and living creatures get the prayers first? Not according to Scripture. They all go directly to the Father. You’re using a symbolic verse with imagery.

 

[Runningman]

So everyone sits on the same one Father's Throne? Seriously? Your predicament is even worse than I thought. Now everyone who offers worship towards the Throne of God is guilty of idolizing not just Jesus but all the Saints also according to Unitarian heresies! Saints Alive!

Now you want to change Rev 3:21 from "His Throne" to "God is your Throne"???? It's not beneath unitarians to intentionally altar Bible verses so that they can appease their judaizing god. This is a classic example of this.

It’s called cross referencing and exegesis. Then again of course you would have to eject it all to prop up your god that can’t even stand on its own without distorting the scripture.

So far you far essentially taken so much collateral damage on your throne theology that you have made normal Christians equal to Lord God Almighty. It’s genuinely painful to watch.

 

[Runningman]

The only way that's possible is we believe your wacky interpretation that the elders and creatures in Rev 5:8 fell down thus spilling their prayer bowls. I still chuckle at how you portray elders and creatures as bumbling and hapless.

Revelation 5:8 (NASB 2020) — 8 When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Talking to someone isn’t the same as prayer. No one ever prayed to Jesus in the Bible. It never says that describe how someone talked to Jesus. You agree, too, you just won’t admit it.

 

[Runningman]

Who is Stephen praying to?

And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Acts 7:59

Oh wait... that's not praying as he just got hit in the head with a rock and was delusional.

Which verse says Stephen was praying as opposed to talking?

 

[Runningman]

He only believes scripture when he thinks it supports his theology

I believe all of scripture. Do you believe Matthew 6:6,9 where Jesus instructed his disciples how to pray and who to pray to?

 

[Runningman]

Yes. His credibility has been shot through with so many holes that you can drive a dump truck through it. At this point, all we can do is humour him on his myths, delusions, and fairy tales.

That’s called a coping mechanism, you’re essentially projecting your failures onto me.

However. my OP has been a huge success and has ran unchecked and unchallenged on this forum for weeks. The word prayer is indeed never used in conjunction with talking to Jesus and there are no teachings about praying to Jesus in the Bible. You know this now.

 

[Runningman]

like I said in another thread a moment ago its noting but presuppositionalism at work adding their manmade ideas and imposing them upon the biblical text and narrative. its an attack on the nature, person and work of Christ. And I like that we have some excellent defenders of the Deity of Christ on our forum. I can think of a dozen or more members off the top of my head.

Really? Where are they? I haven’t met anyone who can defend trinitarianism here. I’ve called each and every one of you out and so far it’s just a handful of the same 3-4 people. And, as expected, most of you have stopped defending your beliefs at this point.

 

[civic]

Really? Where are they? I haven’t met anyone who can defend trinitarianism here. I’ve called each and every one of you out and so far it’s just a handful of the same 3-4 people. And, as expected, most of you have stopped defending your beliefs at this point.

I haven'y met anyone here who can defend unitarianism. there were a few on CARM about 20 years ago but they disappeared 15 years ago. Robr and forever4truth were a couple I remember.

 

[synergy]

It’s called cross referencing and exegesis. Then again of course you would have to eject it all to prop up your god that can’t even stand on its own without distorting the scripture.

Intentionally changing words in the Bible, which you're proposing, is called Butchering. Your attempt to butcher the word of God might work around your circle of friends but not around here.

So far you far essentially taken so much collateral damage on your throne theology that you have made normal Christians equal to Lord God Almighty. It’s genuinely painful to watch.

Nope. The Bible does not have believers on the Father's Throne. So your accusation falls flat on its face. You, on the other hand, do have everyone sitting on the same one Father's Throne which makes your predicament even worse now than I previously thought. Now everyone who offers worship towards the Throne of God is guilty of idolizing not just Jesus but all the Saints also according to Unitarian heresies! Saints Alive!

 

[civic]

Intentionally changing words in the Bible, which you're proposing, is called Butchering. Your attempt to butcher the word of God might work around your circle of friends but not around here.

Nope. The Bible does not have believers on the Father's Throne. So your accusation falls flat on its face. You, on the other hand, do have everyone sitting on the same one Father's Throne which makes your predicament even worse now than I previously thought. Now everyone who offers worship towards the Throne of God is guilty of idolizing not just Jesus but all the Saints also according to Unitarian heresies! Saints Alive!

Yes I noticed the deflecting.