The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

[mikesw]

Wrong. You're misunderstanding what Jesus is talking about. No one here believes Jesus lied.

your theory makes Jesus a liar. Maybe you are willing to change your theory.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Wrong. You're misunderstanding what Jesus is talking about. No one here believes Jesus lied.

There is a difference between making God "out to be a liar" and believing Jesus lied, in your crazy mind, they are one in the same.

 

[Runningman]

What prophecy did Jonah give? I think you are showing another misconception of scripture.

Your strategy seems to be to exhaust the debate with repeating what was already stated in my last reply.

 

[Runningman]

your theory makes Jesus a liar. Maybe you are willing to change your theory.

Nonsense, Jesus gave a prophecy about what God do. John 2:22 isn’t going anywhere. You make John out to be a liar.

 

[Runningman]

There is a difference between making God "out to be a liar" and believing Jesus lied, in your crazy mind, they are one in the same.

That’s all you got? That’s a rather low effort reply and reflects poorly on you.

 

[MTMattie]

Again, John 2:22 is in the passive voice, not the active voice. So John didn't recall Jesus as having resurrected himself. What Jesus had said before about raising the temple was a prophecy, not something he did. Which is why no one in the Bible ever talked about Jesus resurrecting himself after that. Everyone said God raised Jesus from the dead or directly named God to be the Father who did the raising.

ανδρείκελο @Runningman
You who claim to have read the bible once should remember these.

The Bible indicates that all three Persons of the Trinity were involved in Jesus’ resurrection. Galatians 1:1 says that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. First Peter 3:18 says that the Spirit raised Jesus from the dead (see also Romans 1:4, and note that Romans 8:11 clearly says that God will resurrect believers “through His Spirit”). And in John 2:19 Jesus predicts that He will raise Himself from the dead (see also John 10:18). So, when we answer the question of who resurrected Jesus, we can say God did. And by that we can mean it was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

HERE IS EACH VERSE FROM ABOVE:.

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),

1st Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;

Romans 1:4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

John 10:18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

The POWER of the Trinity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now don't be scared @Runningman . Romans 11:8 might only apply to those who are Trinitarians.

 

[Runningman]

ανδρείκελο @Runningman
You who claim to have read the bible once should remember these.

The Bible indicates that all three Persons of the Trinity were involved in Jesus’ resurrection. Galatians 1:1 says that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. First Peter 3:18 says that the Spirit raised Jesus from the dead (see also Romans 1:4, and note that Romans 8:11 clearly says that God will resurrect believers “through His Spirit”). And in John 2:19 Jesus predicts that He will raise Himself from the dead (see also John 10:18). So, when we answer the question of who resurrected Jesus, we can say God did. And by that we can mean it was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

HERE IS EACH VERSE FROM ABOVE:.

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),

1st Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;

Romans 1:4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

John 10:18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

The POWER of the Trinity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now don't be scared @Runningman . Romans 11:8 might only apply to those who are Trinitarians.

Again, John 2:22 is in the passive voice, not the active voice, which would mean that Jesus is not the one who who resurrected himself.

Thanks for proving my point. Nothing says Jesus raised Jesus from the dead in the Bible.

You seem like a smart guy. Why do you not believe John 2:19 isn't a prophecy? Are you also calling John a liar?

 

[Runningman]

@mikesw @praise_yeshua @MTMattie why do you not address the fact that John 2:22 does not allow for Jesus resurrecting himself? I understand you are the opposition and you don't want to dignify or feed into all of the refutes against Jesus resurrecting himself, but how about some scholarly/intellectual honesty for a change?

Address the fact that John 2:22 is plain that Jesus did not resurrect himself please. Why does it say what it does and what options does it leave you?

 

[MTMattie]

Again, John 2:22 is in the passive voice, not the active voice, which would mean that Jesus is not the one who who resurrected himself.

Thanks for proving my point. Nothing says Jesus raised Jesus from the dead in the Bible.

You seem like a smart guy. Why do you not believe John 2:19 isn't a prophecy? Are you also calling John a liar?

You do not read.... I just gave you the verses that said he did. and you responded that none say that.

You either do not read or cannot read.... Also... I suggest you read my signature

Everyone in the trinity had a hand in this.

Why can you not see that the temple being referred to is Jesus' body.

Have you forgotten that 1 Cor 6:19 states Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

IF YOU ARE A TEMPLE.... HOW MUCH MORE SO WOULD THE BODY OF THE SON OF GOD BE A TEMPLE.

THINK ABOUT IT.

 

[Runningman]

You do not read.... I just gave you the verses that said he did. and you responded that none say that.

You either do not read or cannot read.... Also... I suggest you read my signatureView attachment 1517

Everyone in the trinity had a hand in this.

Why can you not see that the temple being referred to is Jesus' body.

Have you forgotten that 1 Cor 6:19 states Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

IF YOU ARE A TEMPLE.... HOW MUCH MORE SO WOULD THE BODY OF THE SON OF GOD BE A TEMPLE.

THINK ABOUT IT.

I did read your verses. Literally none of them say Jesus raised himself from the dead. They all say God raised him, or the Father, or the Spirit of the Father. Are you going to address John 2:22?

 

[synergy]

@mikesw @praise_yeshua @MTMattie why do you not address the fact that John 2:22 does not allow for Jesus resurrecting himself? I understand you are the opposition and you don't want to dignify or feed into all of the refutes against Jesus resurrecting himself, but how about some scholarly/intellectual honesty for a change?

Address the fact that John 2:22 is plain that Jesus did not resurrect himself please. Why does it say what it does and what options does it leave you?

Theres no law against using a passive verb to indicate something that was accomplished by you but would not be possible without others. For example:

• My graduation was made possible by the support of many people. (passive: "was made possible").
• I had graduated from Princeton with honors because of the unending support of many.

Not only that but you run away from what Jesus explicitly said "I will raise it up" in John 2:19.

You have failed miserably again.

 

[praise_yeshua]

@mikesw @praise_yeshua @MTMattie why do you not address the fact that John 2:22 does not allow for Jesus resurrecting himself? I understand you are the opposition and you don't want to dignify or feed into all of the refutes against Jesus resurrecting himself, but how about some scholarly/intellectual honesty for a change?

Address the fact that John 2:22 is plain that Jesus did not resurrect himself please. Why does it say what it does and what options does it leave you?

Now stay with me...... If you really want to learn... you can learn. I haven't see any "scholar/intellectual honesty" from you. So stop these hypocritical charges.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Joh 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

I don't see anything here that "does not allow for Jesus resurrecting himself".

Start here.... answer according to your claim. Don't "move the goalpost" we are working with your claim.

I will say, you're not prepare to deal with your claim above. There is a reason John records this event out of all the events that Jesus did. You know Christ is much better than you'll allow Him to be in your false theology.

Can you please confirm you believe John 21:25.
Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Theres no law against using a passive verb to indicate something that was accomplished by you but would not be possible without others. For example:

• My graduation was made possible by the support of many people. (passive: "was made possible").
• I had graduated from Princeton with honors because of the unending support of many.

Not only that but you run away from what Jesus explicitly said "I will raise it up" in John 2:19.

You have failed miserably again.

Maybe I missed it.... but I don't see he made any argument. Just a blind reference to things he doesn't understand.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That’s all you got? That’s a rather low effort reply and reflects poorly on you.

Just spoke the truth. I really don't get how you miss the obvious. How old are you?

 

[civic]

Nonsense, Jesus gave a prophecy about what God do. John 2:22 isn’t going anywhere. You make John out to be a liar.

projecting again since Jesus emphatically stated He would raise His body back to life after 3 days.

Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

conclusion: you do not believe Jesus words above and make Him out to be a liar. We BELIEVERS believe Jesus words above and that He raised Himself from the dead just as He said above.

next fallacy

 

[synergy]

Maybe I missed it.... but I don't see he made any argument. Just a blind reference to things he doesn't understand.

This is RM's feeble argument that he thinks goes against the idea that Christ had a part in his resurrection.

Again, John 2:22 is in the passive voice, not the active voice, which would mean that Jesus is not the one who who resurrected himself.

 

[civic]

This is RM's feeble argument that he thinks goes against the idea that it was the Trinity (Christ included) that raised Jesus:

another uni failed attempt- they will stop at nothing to deny Christ and attack Him, even make blasphemous statements.

 

[praise_yeshua]

This is RM's feeble argument that he thinks goes against the idea that it was the Trinity (Christ included) that raised Jesus:

Thanks.

"Passive" voice is a good way to establish the Hypostatic Union at work in Christ. The power was His but the flesh being referenced was passive.

This reference is a very important. There are many reasons why. Such is lost on novices...

 

[Runningman]

Theres no law against using a passive verb to indicate something that was accomplished by you but would not be possible without others. For example:

• My graduation was made possible by the support of many people. (passive: "was made possible").
• I had graduated from Princeton with honors because of the unending support of many.

Not only that but you run away from what Jesus explicitly said "I will raise it up" in John 2:19.

You have failed miserably again.

Now that I have the upper hand with proving Jesus didn't resurrect himself using John 2:22, since Jesus was resurrected in the passive sense, then it is grammatically impossible for him to have resurrected himself according to the Greek grammar rules. Your theory makes John out to be an incoherent babbler who couldn't even get his words right. Maybe John isn't the problem, it's you?

 

[Runningman]

Now stay with me...... If you really want to learn... you can learn. I haven't see any "scholar/intellectual honesty" from you. So stop these hypocritical charges.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Joh 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

I don't see anything here that "does not allow for Jesus resurrecting himself".

Start here.... answer according to your claim. Don't "move the goalpost" we are working with your claim.

I will say, you're not prepare to deal with your claim above. There is a reason John records this event out of all the events that Jesus did. You know Christ is much better than you'll allow Him to be in your false theology.

Can you please confirm you believe John 21:25.
Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Don't run away from the grammar of John 2:22. Do you understand the passive and active voice?