The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

Zechariah 1
12Then the angel of the LORD answered and said, O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years? 13And and comfortable words. 14So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Crthe LORD answered the angel that talked with me with good wordsy thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy. 15And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction. 16Therefore thus saith the LORD; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem. 17Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose JeJerusalem.
Beautiful Trinitarian vision of how the Preincarnate Jesus (Angel of the Lord) told Zechariah about his intercession for Jerusalem and about His Father's (Lord of Hosts) response to that intercession. That parallels beautifully with how Jesus now interceeds for us at his Father's Throne.

Keep those Trinitarian verses coming! (y)(y)

I just can't thank you enough for those wonderful Trinitarian verses.
 
The previous point has not been dealt with. Jesus was utterly incapable of giving life until AFTER the only true God gave it to him. Yes or no?
No

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 
No answer about whether Jesus is a heretic or not from you This question will stand for eternity. We have nothing else you talk about until you answer.

Meaning of heretic in English - Cambridge Dictionary

A heretic is someone who has an opinion or belief that is opposite to or against the official or popular opinion, especially in religion. Learn more about the word, its synonyms, and its usage in sentences from the Cambridge Dictionary.

Does that sound like Jesus? NO!

But it does sound like you.

You are absolutley opposite the "majority" of believers... but find it so funny that you would chose a RCC referenced term for your use.

HERETIC Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

The meaning of HERETIC is a person who differs in opinion from established religious dogma; especially : a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church who refuses to acknowledge or accept a revealed truth.

I never knew you were RC.

heretic /hĕr′ĭ-tĭk/

noun​

  1. A person who holds controversial opinions, especially one who publicly dissents from the officially accepted dogma of the Roman Catholic Church.
  2. One who holds to a heresy; one who believes some doctrine contrary to the established faith or prevailing religion.
  3. One who having made a profession of Christian belief, deliberately and pertinaciously refuses to believe one or more of the articles of faith “determined by the authority of the universal church.”
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik

Heretic Definition & Meaning - YourDictionary

A heretic is a person who professes a heresy, or opposes the official doctrine of a religion.
 
The previous point has not been dealt with. Jesus was utterly incapable of giving life until AFTER the only true God gave it to him. Yes or no?
another strawman and failure from the uni camp.

John 1:1-4
Colossians 1:14-17
Hebrews 1:1-12
1 Cor 8:6

all things were made by Him, through Him and for Him. In Him all things/life exist. He is BEFORE all things.

next fallacy

back to the uni drawing board for another fallacious argument.

hope this helps !!!
 
ηλίθιος Wrong.
We know according to Jesus when you make God a liar the truth is not in them. John 8:39-44- no matter how they claim to know or serve God.

The number one way to really know if someone knows God or is truly born again is to ask them questions about Jesus- This separates the wheat from the chaff, the sheep fron the goats, the believers from the unbelievers, the saved from the lost , the Truth from a lie etc ........
 
Asking questions about Jesus flushes them out like a labrador retriever flushes out pheasant in a field for his master. :)

Its like a sitting ducks plucking them off., one by one, one after another. :)
 
In the hypostatic union Jesus is "fully god and fully man" forever. The man Jesus is the god Jesus. You have two Jesus' to correct this problem, but you didn't think it through. There are not two Jesus' in the Bible. The Son of God is the exact same person as the Son of Man.

John 5 KJV
25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
The fallacious arguments and lack of knowledge continues.

Jesus is one Person not 2 persons. He is a Divine Person having both a Divine nature and human nature. This is the Hypostatic Union of the 2 natures in Christ. This is the historical and orthodox view. I have written an article on this myself.

You are incapable of teaching me anything on the Trinity or 2 natures in Christ. You do not know either of them nor do you believe them. I on the other hand know them and believe them.

Hypostatic Union


1
. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)

2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)

3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus, the Divine Son who is the 2nd Person of the Trinity. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed,wept, grew in wisdom and stature,was anointed,was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature. The Creed of Chalcedon declares that : “in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation, the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one persona and one subsistence, not parted or divided into two person, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ.

4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).

5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)

6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a One of the Three Divine Persons in the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)

Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person. So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the general council at Chalcedon 451 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).

We need to look to the Monothelite Controversy which had to deal with whether there was one or two wills/minds in the person of Christ. The outcome was that there were two; one human and one divine with the human subjected to the divine. The eternal Son of God did not assume a part of a human nature without a mind, without a will, without human activity, but He assumed all the things that were planted in our nature by God.

Now then, to act (or in this case, speak) is the work of a person, but the form or nature is the cause of this action; for each person acts in accord with the form or nature which it has. A difference in causes (natures) produces a difference in effects (actions). Therefore, where there are different natures, there are also different activities. So in the one Person of Christ there are two natural actions, the divine and the human, each of which has its own essential attributes, functions, and actions. Jesus was thirty years old according to His human nature (Luke 3:23); according to His divine nature He could say: "Before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58). The question is did both natures know this and communicate it to the Person. The answer is yes because the divine nature with its corresponding divine will willed the human nature to respond in such a fashion in keeping with Christ's office and ministry. In the text regarding Mark 13:32, we have a slightly different situation here. Christ is acting (speaking) from His human nature, but, this time, the divine will does not allow the human will access to this knowledge. For this information is not to be published on earth. Therefore, as man, Christ cannot answer the question. In the works pertaining to the office of Christ as Prophet, Priest, and King both natures act in conjunction with each other, each nature doing what is peculiar to the same. The book of Hebrews goes into great detail with these offices.

hope this helps !!!
 
The fallacious arguments and lack of knowledge continues.

Jesus is one Person not 2 persons. He is a Divine Person having both a Divine nature and human nature. This is the Hypostatic Union of the 2 natures in Christ. This is the historical and orthodox view. I have written an article on this myself.

You are incapable of teaching me anything on the Trinity or 2 natures in Christ. You do not know either of them nor do you believe them. I on the other hand know them and believe them.

Hypostatic Union


1
. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)

2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)

3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus, the Divine Son who is the 2nd Person of the Trinity. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed,wept, grew in wisdom and stature,was anointed,was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature. The Creed of Chalcedon declares that : “in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation, the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one persona and one subsistence, not parted or divided into two person, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ.

4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).

5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)

6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a One of the Three Divine Persons in the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)

Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person. So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the general council at Chalcedon 451 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).

We need to look to the Monothelite Controversy which had to deal with whether there was one or two wills/minds in the person of Christ. The outcome was that there were two; one human and one divine with the human subjected to the divine. The eternal Son of God did not assume a part of a human nature without a mind, without a will, without human activity, but He assumed all the things that were planted in our nature by God.

Now then, to act (or in this case, speak) is the work of a person, but the form or nature is the cause of this action; for each person acts in accord with the form or nature which it has. A difference in causes (natures) produces a difference in effects (actions). Therefore, where there are different natures, there are also different activities. So in the one Person of Christ there are two natural actions, the divine and the human, each of which has its own essential attributes, functions, and actions. Jesus was thirty years old according to His human nature (Luke 3:23); according to His divine nature He could say: "Before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58). The question is did both natures know this and communicate it to the Person. The answer is yes because the divine nature with its corresponding divine will willed the human nature to respond in such a fashion in keeping with Christ's office and ministry. In the text regarding Mark 13:32, we have a slightly different situation here. Christ is acting (speaking) from His human nature, but, this time, the divine will does not allow the human will access to this knowledge. For this information is not to be published on earth. Therefore, as man, Christ cannot answer the question. In the works pertaining to the office of Christ as Prophet, Priest, and King both natures act in conjunction with each other, each nature doing what is peculiar to the same. The book of Hebrews goes into great detail with these offices.

hope this helps !!!
So you believe that Jesus the man is Jesus the god. Is that correct?
 
BTW, You still have not answered what I asked you in 3359 in response to your.


Did a spirit get Mary pregnant?
When you say I am a heretic it looks like you're talking about Jesus because I am just repeating his teachings. That's why I opened a thread about the Bible never teaching to pray to Jesus. I am right.
 
Asking you when was the last time you read the Bible is the love of God = SHALOM

When people ask me questions concerning the scriptures and/or what I read or know, i REJOICE.

Dwell on the Temple and why God had it built by Solomon and why God said there was to be only ONE Temple and only in Jerusalem.

Dwell on why the LORD Jesus Christ had both Temples destroyed.

Dwell on Acts.

SHALOM
DavidTree said: "Asking you when was the last time you read the Bible is the love of God = SHALOM"

Let's ask others on this forum. Is this the definition of the love of God - to ask someone when was the last time they read the Bible??

Just admit it. You got caught mocking me, but now you're denying that truth and making up another lie about what your mockery really meant - love and peace.

You also got caught telling us the scriptures teach us that we must meet in homes. This is FALSE.

You also got caught telling us that we are antiChrist if we call a building "a church". This is ALSO FALSE.

Will you confess your lies, or will you make up another lie to try to deny these lies?
 
DavidTree said: "Asking you when was the last time you read the Bible is the love of God = SHALOM"

Let's ask others on this forum. Is this the definition of the love of God - to ask someone when was the last time they read the Bible??

Just admit it. You got caught mocking me, but now you're denying that truth and making up another lie about what your mockery really meant - love and peace.

You also got caught telling us the scriptures teach us that we must meet in homes. This is FALSE.

You also got caught telling us that we are antiChrist if we call a building "a church". This is ALSO FALSE.

Will you confess your lies, or will you make up another lie to try to deny these lies?
Sorry you've experienced that too, but it's very common on this forum to get mocked if you aren't in the Good Ole Boys Club. You dared to cross David and disagree with him. You're probably under him in his eyes and soon I am sure he will be condemning you to hell like he did me already. You will probably never get an apology or a classy, humble, response. I have rarely ever seen anyone apologize or confess to being wrong on these boards except one time many years ago.
 
Sorry you've experienced that too, but it's very common on this forum to get mocked if you aren't in the Good Ole Boys Club. You dared to cross David and disagree with him. You're probably under him in his eyes and soon I am sure he will be condemning you to hell like he did me already. You will probably never get an apology or a classy, humble, response. I have rarely ever seen anyone apologize or confess to being wrong on these boards except one time many years ago.
Here is your chance not only to admit being wrong but also to repent and accept Christ Jesus in his divinity within the Trinity.
 
DavidTree said: "Asking you when was the last time you read the Bible is the love of God = SHALOM"

Let's ask others on this forum. Is this the definition of the love of God - to ask someone when was the last time they read the Bible??

Just admit it. You got caught mocking me, but now you're denying that truth and making up another lie about what your mockery really meant - love and peace.

You also got caught telling us the scriptures teach us that we must meet in homes. This is FALSE.

You also got caught telling us that we are antiChrist if we call a building "a church". This is ALSO FALSE.

Will you confess your lies, or will you make up another lie to try to deny these lies?
Well, you must be having a hard time understanding the words of Christ if you respond this way.

The ENTIRE world system is anti-christ, including calling a building "a church".
The Roman Catholic Church is the CLEAR evidence.
90% or more of 'churches' follow the pattern set forth by RCC

The money in our pocket/bank account is anti-christ!!!
Thus the LORD Says: "Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and give to God what is God's"

When the Mark of the Beast comes, many 'churches' will accept it.

Why did you choose not to dwell on Scripture???

P.S. - i went to a building yesterday that men call a 'church' so that i could be with Brethren in Christ.
 
I think I have been correct in noting that the unitarian misses nuances in scripture. More specifically we have been seeing a hyper-literalist reading of scripture. When it is constantly asked where is the verse that says Jesus is God, that would appear to be an indicator of someone who reads scripture in this hyper-literalist fashion. Of course, as Civic pointed out, there is no verse that says the Father is God. This helps to show that the unitarian is not truly consistent in the interpretation process but is only on a track of denying the divinity of Christ Jesus in the Godhead.
 
I think I have been correct in noting that the unitarian misses nuances in scripture. More specifically we have been seeing a hyper-literalist reading of scripture. When it is constantly asked where is the verse that says Jesus is God, that would appear to be an indicator of someone who reads scripture in this hyper-literalist fashion. Of course, as Civic pointed out, there is no verse that says the Father is God. This helps to show that the unitarian is not truly consistent in the interpretation process but is only on a track of denying the divinity of Christ Jesus in the Godhead.
But there is the Father calling the Son God. And who would know better then the Father???????

It is consistently ignored or denied.
 
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