Runningman
Well-known member
You took a hit to the ego for not having a way to actually refute the OP, but you can still learn to take the hit, have some class, and accept it.
The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
civic
Well-known member
You affirmed in post 316 you love Jesus "more than all."
So I asked, "More than the Father"?
You can stop dodging now.
Runningman
Well-known member
You're just baiting me so you can twist my words because you really need me to not love Jesus when I really truly do love him. I love him so much, but the Bible is explicit about the greatest commandment being to love YHWH the most. Jesus isn't YHWH. I didn't write it. Do you love YHWH more than Jesus?
Runningman
Well-known member
Classic bait and switch.
You can stop whimpering and just simply answer the question.
Classic dodge.
Runningman
Well-known member
This is what I follow. Let me guess, you think this is wrong don't you?
Matthew 22
36“Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the Law?”
37Jesus declared, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
I don't care.
Runningman
Well-known member
I know.
civic
Well-known member
So you don’t love Jesus with all your heart, mind and soul . Every born again believer I know does.
Verse 21 plainly settles the case if one is responsive to the evidence
Is there anyone in heaven who can receive your spirit and forgive sin
Read the verse. It is not a mystery
BTW. Who does the Spirit go back to upon death Eccl 12:7
Ignoring the obvious
Acts 1:21–24 (KJV 1900) — 21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. 23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Its called prayer and it's to the lord -Jesus
You are denying the word of God here and from what I have see in addition to framing, you are attempting to move the goal post
Your theology will not allow you to believe scripture
You have been seen denying scripture
You denied the bible shows Jesus was prayed to, states he is eternal, states he is God, etc
Open your eyes then as multiple passages in the old testament which ascribe an action, event, title only to YHWH are seen in the new testament as being applied to Christ
Jesus has many other names or titles of God
Titles belonging only to God
The First and the Last (Beginning and End, Alpha and Omega): Rev. 1:7-8, 17b-18; 2:8; 22:13; cf. Is. 41:4; 44:6; 48:12; Rev. 21:6
King of kings and Lord of lords: Rev. 17:14; 19:16; cf. Dan. 4:37; 1 Tim. 6:15
Titles belonging in the ultimate sense only to God
Savior: Luke 2:11; John 4:42; Phil. 3:20; 2 Tim. 1:10; Titus 2:13, cf. v. 10; 2 Pet. 1:11; 2:20; 3:2, 18; 1 John 4:14; cf. Is. 43:11; 45:21-22; 1 Tim. 4:10; on Jesus becoming the source of salvation; Heb. 5:9, cf. Ex. 15:2; Ps. 118:14, 21
Shepherd: John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; cf. Ps. 23:1; Is. 40:11
Bridegroom/Husband: Matt. 22:2; 25:1-13; Mark 2:19; John 3:29; 2 Cor. 11:2; Eph. 5:25-27; Rev. 19:7-9; 21:2, 9; cf. Is. 54:5; 62:5; Jer. 31:32
Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4; cf. Is. 44:8
Jesus' self-declarations—his "I am" sayings
Jesus' "I am" (egô eimi) sayings with a predicate declare his divine functions: "I am the bread of life" (John 6:35, 48; cf. 6:41, 51), "I am the light of the world" (John 8:12), "I am the gate" of the sheep (John 10:7, 9), "I am the good shepherd" (10:11, 14), "I am the resurrection and the life" (John 11:25), "I am the way and the truth and the life" (John 14:6), "I am the [true] vine" (John 15:1, 5). In these sayings Jesus essentially claims to be everything his people need for eternal life.
Jesus' "I am" (egô eimi) sayings without a predicate declare his divine identity as the divine Son come to be the Messiah: "I am [he]; do not fear" (Matt. 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20; cf. Is. 43:2, 5); "I am [he]" (Mark 14:62); "I am [he], the one speaking to you" (John 4:26, cf. Is. 52:6); "unless you believe that I am [he] you will die in your sins…then you will know that I am [he]" (John 8:24, 28, cf. Is. 43:10-11); "before Abraham came into being, I am" or "I am [he]" (John 8:58, note v. 59); "I know the ones I have chosen…you will believe that I am [he]" (John 13:18-19, cf. Is. 43:10); "I am [he]" (John 18:5, cf. vv. 6-8). Note the many parallels to the "I am" sayings of God in Isaiah, which virtually all biblical scholars agree are echoed by Jesus' "I am" sayings in John. Some scholars also see at least an indirect connection to God's declaration "I am who I am" in Ex. 3:14 (especially for John 8:58).
The NT gives an extraordinary emphasis on Jesus' "name," stating that it is the highest of all names, Eph. 1:21; Phil. 2:9-11; referring to it as "the Name," Acts 5:41; 3 John 7; glorifying his name, Acts 19:13-18, cf. Ps. 20:7. Christians call on his name for salvation; they get baptized and receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life in his name; they cast out demons in his name; they suffer and risk their lives for his name; they do everything in his name: Matt. 7:22; 10:22; 19:29; 24:9; Mark 9:38-39; 13:13; Luke 10:17; 21:12, 17; John 1:12; 15:21; 20:31; Acts 2:21, 36, 38; 3:6, 16; 4:7, 10, 12, 17-18, 30; 5:28; 8:16; 9:14, 21, 27-28; 10:43, 48; 15:26; 16:18; 19: 5; 21:13; 22:16; Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:13-15; 6:11; Col. 3:17; 1 Pet. 4:14; 1 John 2:12; 1 John 3:23; 5:13; Rev. 2:3, 13; 3:8.
Jesus received the honors due to God alone
Honor: John 5:23; Heb. 3:3-4
Love: Matt. 10:37; Luke 14:26; John 14:15, 21; 15:10; Eph. 6:24
Prayer: John 14:14 (the word "me" in the text is debated, but in any case it is Jesus who answers the prayer); Acts 1:24-25; 7:59-60 (cf. Luke 23:34, 46); 9:14; 22:16; Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:2; 16:22; 2 Cor. 12:8-10 (where "the Lord" must be Jesus, cf. v. 9); 2 Thess. 2:16-17; Rev. 22:20-21
Worship (proskuneô): Matt. 2:2, 11; 8:2; 9:18; 14:33; 15:25; 20:20; 28:9, 17 (cf. Matt. 4:9-10); Phil. 2:10-11 (cf. Is. 45:23); Heb. 1:6 (cf. Ps. 97:7); Rev. 1:17; 5:14 (cf. Rev. 19:10; 22:8-9)
Religious or sacred service (latreuô): Dan. 7:14; Rev. 22:1-3
Doxological praise: 2 Tim. 4:18; Heb. 13:20-21; 1 Pet. 4:11; 2 Pet. 3:18; Rev. 1:5-6; 5:13
Song: Eph. 5:19; Rev. 5:9-10; cf. Ps. 92:1; 95:1; 96:2; etc.
Fear/reverence: 2 Cor. 5:10-11; Eph. 5:21; 6:7-8; Col. 3:22-25; 1 Pet. 3:14-16; cf. Deut. 6:13; 10:20; Prov. 1:7; 2:5; 9:10; etc.; Is. 8:12-13
Faith: Matt. 9:28; John 1:12; 3:15-18, 36; 6:35, 40; 7:37-39; 8:24; 11:25-26; 14:1; 20:31; Acts 3:16; 10:43; 16:31; 20:21; 22:19; 24:24; 26:18; Rom. 9:33; 10:11; Gal. 3:26; 1 Pet. 2:6; 1 John 3:23; 5:1, 10, 13
Jesus does the works of God
Creation: John 1:3, 10; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2, 10; Rev. 3:14 (where archê probably means ruler or head); on "through" and "in" Christ, cf. Rom. 11:36; Heb. 2:10; Acts 17:28; cf. also Is. 44:24
Sustains the universe: Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3, 11-12
Demonstrating divine sovereignty over nature: Matt. 8:23-27 par.; Matt. 14:13-33 par.; Matt. 15:32-39; Matt. 17:24-27; Mark 5:19-20; Luke 5:1-11; 7:11-16; John 2:1-11; John 21:1-14
Speaking with divine authority: Matt. 5:20-22, etc.; 7:24-29; 24:35; Mark 1:22; 13:31; Luke 4:32; John 4:26; 7:46; cf. "Amen I say to you" (74 times in the Gospels); "the word of the Lord," Acts 8:25; 13:44, 48-49; 15:35-36; 16:32; 19:10, 20; 1 Thess. 4:15
Salvation:
In general: See C.2.a. above
Forgives sins: Matt. 9:1-8; Mark 2:1-12; Luke 5:17-26; note that Jesus forgives sins not committed against him.
Sends the Spirit and his gifts: Matt. 3:11; Luke 24:49; John 1:33; 4:10, 15; 7:37-39; 15:26; 16:7-14; 20:22; Acts 2:33; Rom. 8:9; 1 Cor. 12:5; Eph. 4:8-11
All spiritual blessings (with the Father): Eph. 1:2-3; 2 Thess. 2:16-17; 1 Tim. 1:2; 2 Tim. 1:2; 2 John 3; Rev. 1:4; etc.
Raising the dead: John 2:19-22; 5:28-29; 6:40, 54; 10:17-18, 27-28 (cf. Deut. 32:39); 11:25-26; Acts 2:24
Judgment: Matt. 25:31-46; John 5:22-23; Acts 10:42; 17:31; Rom. 2:16; 1 Cor. 4:4-5; 2 Cor. 5:10; 2 Thess. 1:7-8; 2 Tim. 4:1; Rev. 2:23
All of them: John 5:19
Jesus has all the attributes of God
All of them: John 1:1; 12:45; 14:7-10; Rom. 8:29; 2 Cor. 4:4; Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:13, 15, 19; 2:9; Heb. 1:3
Self-existent: John 5:26
Unchangeable: Heb. 1:10-12 (in the same sense as YHWH); 13:8
Eternal: John 1:1-3; 8:56-59; 17:5; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2, 10-12; 7:3
Omnipresent: Matt. 8:5-13; 18:20; 28:20; Mark 7:24-30; Luke 7:1-10; John 1:47-49; 3:13; 4:46-54; Eph. 1:23; 4:10-11; Col. 3:11
Omnipotent: Matt. 28:18; John 2:19-22; 10:17-18; 1 Cor. 1:23-24; 2 Cor. 12:9; Eph. 1:19-21; Col. 2:10; 1 Pet. 3:22
Loving (in a preeminent, unlimited way): John 13:34; 15:9, 12-13; Rom. 8:35-39; Gal. 2:20; Eph. 3:19; 5:2; Rev. 1:4; cf. Rom. 5:8
Incomprehensible: Matt. 11:25-27
Runningman
Well-known member
So you don't follow what Jesus said is the greatest commandment.
Runningman
Well-known member
That's not God.
God is YHWH according to Jesus. You got the wrong idea.
Matthew 22
36“Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the Law?”
37Jesus declared, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’e 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’f 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
