Runningman
Well-known member
Matthew 6:6,9 is the only teaching about prayer in Scripture and it only mentions the Father as the one to pray to. You’re blind and hate the truth.
The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus
- Thread starter Runningman
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Runningman
Well-known member
None of them say the word prayer. If any of them say “pray to Jesus” or showed and example where they used the word prayer to talk to Jesus I wouldn’t have opened this thread.
I opened this thread because I know it was a slam dunk for Unitarianism. We own the the fact that the Scripture only teaches about praying to our one, singular, person who is God. He’s the Father, He’s the only True God.
You indeed got "slammed" to the boards by the following facts:
1. You failed miserably to prove that the Communion Prayer is given ONLY to the Father. Where in Luke 22:14-21 is the word "Father" even mentioned? Your Judaizing presuppositions are again blinding you to the truth. Jesus instructed everyone to pray to God whom Jesus declared himself to be in John 8:58. Trinitarianism demolishes the Judaizing heresy once again. Your Judaizing points are now just dust and smoke.
2. You refuse to acknowledge that prayer is involved in the Communion Prayer Services. Wow! Massive failure on your part.
3. You're totally embarrassed to reveal what you mean by your following:
Instead you resort to the following action:
Run Runningman Run!!!!
civic
Well-known member
You are projecting since it’s your beliefs that devalue Christ, robbing Him of the worship, adoration, praise, honor, glory and prayer that the Apostles, disciples and all heaven give to Him.
Since the Greek word miseo mean hate it’s you that Hates Christ. The word means also to love less. Since you love Him less you in fact hate Him.
I love Him equally with the Father.
Miseo in the lexicon , hate means to esteem less, to love less- even many Calvinist theologians agree that is the meaning. The same meaning from Jesus when He said a disciple must hate his own mother, father to come follow Him. Hate there means the exact same thing. You love your mother/father less than you do Jesus- You esteem Jesus more, love Him more.
Do you love the Father more ? Yes you do.
miseó: to hate
Original Word: μισέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: miseó
Phonetic Spelling: (mis-eh'-o)
Definition: to hate
Usage: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less.
HELPS Word-studies
3404 miséō – properly, to detest (on a comparativebasis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone(something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another.
Lk 14:26: "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate (3404 /miséō, 'love less' than the Lord) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple" (NASU).
[Note the comparative meaning of 3404 (miséō) which centers in moral choice, elevating one value over another.]
to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment (Gn 29:31; Dt 21:15, 16) Mt 6:24; Lk 16:13. τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ J 12:25 or ἑαυτοῦ Lk 14:26 (cp. the formulation Plut, Mor. 556d οὐδʼ ἐμίσουν ἑαυτούς; on the theme cp. Tyrtaeus [VII B.C.] 8, 5 D.3). Ro 9:13 BDAG
BDAG.
② to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment (Gn 29:31; Dt 21:15, 16) Mt 6:24; Lk 16:13. τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ J 12:25 or ἑαυτοῦ Lk 14:26 (cp. the formulation Plut, Mor. 556d οὐδʼ ἐμίσουν ἑαυτούς; on the theme cp. Tyrtaeus [VII B.C.] 8, 5 D.3). Ro 9:13 (Mal 1:2f). Perh. 2 Cl 6:6 (s. 1b). (JDenney, The Word ‘Hate’ in Lk 14:26: ET 21, 1910, 41f; WBleibtreu, Paradoxe Aussprüche Jesu: Theol. Arbeiten aus d. wissensch. Prediger-Verein d. Rheinprovinz, new ser. 20, 24, 15–35; RSockman, The Paradoxes of J. ’36).—ACarr, The Mng. of ‘Hatred’ in the NT: Exp. 6th ser., 12, 1905, 153–60.—DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW.
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civic
Well-known member
Yes nothing but man made unitarian doctrines and eisegesisYou indeed got "slammed" to the boards by the following facts:
1. You failed miserably to prove that the Communion Prayer is given ONLY to the Father. Where in Luke 22:14-21 is the word "Father" even mentioned? Your Judaizing presuppositions are again blinding you to the truth. Jesus instructed everyone to pray to God whom Jesus declared himself to be in John 8:58. Trinitarianism demolishes the Judaizing heresy once again. Your Judaizing points are now just dust and smoke.
2. You refuse to acknowledge that prayer is involved in the Communion Prayer Services. Wow! Massive failure on your part.
3. You're totally embarrassed to reveal what you mean by your following:
Instead you resort to the following action:
Run Runningman Run!!!!
David Koberstein
Active member
We don't need your false commentary. The verses I posted speak for themselves and are quite exquisite in their meaning
and purpose.
Messianic Jews (Hebrews) 1: 1-3
In days gone by, God spoke in many and varied ways to the Fathers through the prophets. But now, in the
acharit-hayamim (end of the age) אחרית-חיים , he has spoken to us through his Son, to whom he has given
ownership of everything and through whom he created the universe.
This Son is the radiance of the Sh'khinah, (the dwelling or settling of the Divine Presence of God) שכינה,
the very expression of God's essence, upholding all that exists by his powerful word; and after he had, through himself,
made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of HaG'dulah BaM'romim (the Greatness in the heights) הגדולה בעמרים
The Deity of Yeshua Messianic Jews 1:1-4 Letter to the Messianic Jews In my last post, I introduced us to this new study on the Letter to the Messianic Jews. To the extent possible, I will be taking smaller portions of the scripture to examine using the outline in my old Harper Study Bible (RSV). Quotations, unless otherwise indicated, will be from the Complete Jewish Bible (CJB). In this post, we learn that Yeshua is the final revelation of God. 1 In days gone by, God spoke in many and varied ways to the Fathers through the prophets.2 Butnow, in the acharit-hayamim, He has spoken to us through His Son, to whom He has given ownership of everything and through whom He created the universe. This Son is the radiance of the Sh’khinah, the very expression of God’s essence, upholding all that exists by His powerful word; and after He had, through Himself, made purification for sins, He sat down at the righthand of HaG’dulah BaM’romim. So He has become much better than angels, and the name God has given Him is superior to theirs. ~ Hebrews 1:1-4 (CJB) These opening sentences are one of the most magnificent passages in the Bible, comparable in grandeur to the introductory sentences of Bresheet and Yochanan's Gospel. Yeshua, in His deity and His inexpressible glory, is the Creator, Preserver, and Heir of the universe. By an eternal act of God, Yeshua made purification for the sin of humanity, once and for all, and brought everlasting salvation.Barclay adds: This is the most sonorous [deep or resonant] piece of Greek in the whole New Testament. It is a passage that any classical Greek orator would have been proud to write. The writer of Hebrews has brought to it every artifice of word and rhythm that the beautiful and flexible Greek language could provide…The writer to the Hebrews felt that, since he was going to speak of the supreme revelation of God to men, he must clothe his thought in the noblest language that it was possible to find.God spoke in many and varied ways, directly and indirectly, in dreams and stories, history and prophecy,poems and proverbs, to the Fathers of the Jewish people through the prophets from Moses to Malachi,and, before Moses, to Avraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph.According to Jewish tradition, Malachi was the last of the Tanakh prophets. For the next four centuries, to use the remark of an earlier prophet, "The word of Adonai was rare in those days; there was no frequent vision" (1 Samuel 3:1). But in the acharit-hayamim, the Tanakh's "latter days," which the Brit Hadashah regards as already here (see 1 Corinthians 10:11), he has spoken again, not to Fathers longdead (v. 1), but to us in the 1st century, through his Son.By implication, his Son is better than the Prophets. A significant purpose of the author is to show that Yeshua and everything connected with Him is better than what was available previously. He uses this word,"better," twelve times in Messianic Jews to compare the Messiah and His era with what there was before. It appears first in v. 4, and last at 12:24, as the author summarizes this comparison of old and new (12:18-24).There follow in verses 2-3 seven features of God's Son which demonstrate his superiority:1. God has given Him ownership of everything.2. God created the universe through Him.1 Barclay's Daily Study Bible (NT) by William Barclay.23. This Son is the radiance of, literally, "the glory," best rendered Jewishly as the Sh’khinah.4. The very expression, used only here in the Brit Hadashah, delineates even more clearly that God's essence is manifested in the Messiah.5. Yeshua not only is the Word (Yochanan 1:1), but he has a powerful word upholds all that exists.6. The writer turns from the Messiah's cosmic functions to His functions in relation to humanity:through himself, he made purification for sins, which, is explained a little at a time throughout the rest of the book, no one else and nothing else could do.7. Finally, after that, he sat down at the right hand of God. Psalm 110:1 is frequently quoted in this book and elsewhere in the Brit Hadashah. In the Hebrew of Psalm 110:1, it is God speaking: "YHVH said to my Lord, 'Sit at my right hand.'" "The right hand of God" is not a place but refers to the Messiah's exalted status and to His intimate involvement with God as cohen gadol interceding for those who trust in Him. God is referred to as a euphemism, HaG’dulah BaM’romim ("the Greatness in the heights").So, it is evident, since He is at God's right hand, that he has become much better than angels ~ even though "He was made, for a little while, lower than the angels" (2:9).
David H. Stern
Baruch Hashem Adonai
David Koberstein
Active member
Yes, the case has been mase and won and to keep from embarrassing yourself with your
ignorance of Scripture I suggest you change the subject.
Shalom
Runningman
Well-known member
That was your argument that you brought up. You eventually dropped it and blamed me. Go back and read the comments. You have proved jack squat.You indeed got "slammed" to the boards by the following facts:
1. You failed miserably to prove that the Communion Prayer is given ONLY to the Father. Where in Luke 22:14-21 is the word "Father" even mentioned? Your Judaizing presuppositions are again blinding you to the truth. Jesus instructed everyone to pray to God whom Jesus declared himself to be in John 8:58. Trinitarianism demolishes the Judaizing heresy once again. Your Judaizing points are now just dust and smoke.
Which verse?
I'm doing good lol. I still have the only teaching in Scripture about prayer for the Father and no examples of Jesus being prayed to. I am quite comfortable. Actually, I am confident about this topic to take it public. All of the points are in my court.
You wish.
Runningman
Well-known member
Your argument seems to be about the word hate. I believe you do hate the truth. Why don't you just accept the teachings of Jesus? Because they contradict your beliefs? Look dude, just be a Christian and follow Christ. I can't see how your rejection of Christ's teachings and Scripture is going to sit well with you at your judgement. I think it's going to be a big problem. Have a little grace and humility and lay down your personal opinions, doctrines, and arguments.
The bottom line is that there are no teachings of prayer to Jesus in the Bible. There never will be.
Runningman
Well-known member
Begin with verse 5 where Paul wrote to the church of Philippi telling them to have the same mind as Jesus. After that, Paul described the mind of Jesus. Paul said Jesus exists in the outward appearance of God, meaning to say Jesus' behavior is holy and righteous; both of these things attainable for the church of Philippi, that's why Paul told them to have the same mind as Jesus. Of course, to not only have the same mind as Jesus, but also outwardly be like Jesus.
They need to empty themselves and be God's servant even though they are in the likeness of a human. If necessary they need to be obedient to God to the point of death.
Runningman
Well-known member
It's just what the Bible says and it's all true. The Bible doesn't teach to pray to Jesus. Where is there a commandment by Jesus or any of the apostles saying how to pray to Jesus? None? You lost, trin.
Runningman
Well-known member
My first post when I opened this thread has not been proven false. Read my premises again. They are correct.
Not much to comment on due to sheer lack of supporting verses. One may argue to the contrary, but there are no explicit examples where someone taught to pray to Jesus in the Bible. There are no examples of the word "pray" or "prayer" being used in conjunction with communicating to Jesus.
The Bible teaches to pray to God the Father. That's it.
Matthew 6
6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
9So then, this is how you should pray:
‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be Your name.
David Koberstein
Active member
The first Adam dies and brought evil inclination on the world known as original sin.
The second Adam, which is called Yeshua, defeated that concept. So, in the first Adam
came death, and in the second Adam came life (See I Cor 15:45). You have life today,
because of Yeshua! Isn't that a marvelous thing!
Genesis 3:15 tells you right away the plan of God. That part of the Trinity, Son of Man,
the Angel of the LORD, is also referred to many times in the Bible, was to become a man.
The Word of God is what John 1:1 says. The Word of God was God and became flesh!
He became a man. The Word of God was the one that created all things. That's what it
says in Colossians 1:16, that Yeshua created all things! He's the creator! He wasn't just
some servient guy, there to take care of everyone's whims and desires. He was servient
to the Father and He listened to the Father while He was here on earth. But now He is
with the Father, and He and the Father are one. The Bible says while He was on earth,
He was made a little lower than the Elohim, which means a plural God (Ps. 8:5, Heb. 2: 7-9).
It says in Psalms that He was made a little lower than the angels; however, in
Strong's Concordance, "angels" refers to Elohim. Sometimes translated as "judge,"
sometimes "mighty," but it's talking about the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
So, what does Psalms mean that He was made a little lower than Elohim? It's about when
He became Yeshua. As a man, He was made a little lower than Elohim Himself, because
that's why He had to listen to the Father. Whatever the Father told Him, He did. Certain
things can be revealed only by the Father, because He did not at that time have 100%
of the knowledge His Father had while He was here on this earth. Remember, when He
was in His fleshly body, He said He didn't know the day or the hour of His return.
But He knows now. He's sitting at the right hand of the Father up there. He certainly knows
because He has the mind of the Father. He didn't know when He was walking on the earth,
so He constantly gave credit to His Father. He was somewhat limited in His knowledge.
That's what it means when it says that He was made a little lower than Elohim.
It's amazing what God has done.
By Messianic Rabbi Allan Moorhead
Runningman
Well-known member
The way to address my OP would be to find an example where "Jesus" was "prayed" to. There isn't one. You can't contradict this point.
Another way to address my OP would be to find a teaching by God, Jesus or a different prophet regarding prayer that taught about praying to Jesus. There are none.
To the contrary, we have a teaching an more than one example of the Father being prayed to the in the Bible.
Is the Bible infallible, inerrant, and good for teaching, doctrine, and instruction in righteousness? Yes? Then where do you got your non-Biblical doctrines about praying to Jesus from? It certainly wasn't from anyone in Scripture. You're doing what everyone else does which is try to Bible-lawyer non-existent points into the Bible.
civic
Well-known member
Projecting again I love Christ above all, you cannot say that can you ?
Runningman
Well-known member
Yes I love Jesus more than all and would leave house, home, family, and die in his service if required. I am a Christian. Drop the charade and false accusations about how I don't love Jesus.
However, do you love YHWH with all of your heart, mind, sould, and strength and your neighbor as yourself?
More than the Father?
civic
Well-known member
Do you love Him more than the Father or less than the Father?
David Koberstein
Active member
Your the fake Christian, maybe you can tell me where you got your heresy from. I suppose I can google that like I did before.
You distort the Truth. You will now be on ignore, Done with your kind.
Runningman
Well-known member
Verse that says to loves Jesus more than God?
