The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

Fred said:
The above is false.

In Acts 2:21 Peter (recorded by Luke) TAUGHT the Lord Jesus is to be called on (= prayed to) in that He is YHWH.
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Your statement is not correct, my brother.

  • First, in Acts 2:21 Peter is not giving any teaching whatsoever on who to pray to.
  • Second, in Acts 2:21 Peter, an Israelite, is quoting Joel, an Israelite, to an Israelite audience. So the only God being mentioned here is the God that Joel, Peter and Peter's audience understood God was. Namely, YHWH, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who is NOT Jesus as per Peter's own words in Acts 3:13.
  • Third, just in the next verse, Acts 2:22, Peter again treats God and Jesus as different beings: Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth was a man attested to you by God with powerful works and wonders and signs, which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves know.

Your argument has been refuted.
Your failure to sustain a valid argument, tough, is the least important of all things at stake.
 
TomL said:
Really?

Acts 4:9–12 (KJV 1900) — 9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

You have made multiple statements which are refuted by scripture.
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Jews knew that the Messiah would come to save Israel. The Messiah could be properly called a savior.
This has nothing to do with the fact that they all knew that God (YHWH, the One and Only God) was the Savior of Israel, and would send the Messiah to execute that salvation.

TomL is confusing the saving mission of Jesus with his deity.
The apostles, though, were not confused. That's why in the Book of Acts they repeatedly teach their audiences that God sent Jesus, that God did things through Jesus, that God raised Jesus from the dead.
Were the apostles teaching that Jesus sent Himself, or did things by his own authority, or raised Himself from dead?

The apostles were not announcing a new personal God and no one from their audience reacted to the preaching of a new personal God.
The apostles were always talking about the only God they and their audiences had in common.
 
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Pancho Frijoles said:
Your statement is not correct, my brother.

  • First, in Acts 2:21 Peter is not giving any teaching whatsoever on who to pray to.
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Wrong.

To call upon the name of the Lord always refers to praying to the Lord.
You ignored this point.

Pancho Frijoles said:
  • Second, in Acts 2:21 Peter, an Israelite, is quoting Joel, an Israelite, to an Israelite audience. So the only God being mentioned here is the God that Joel, Peter and Peter's audience understood God was. Namely, YHWH, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who is NOT Jesus as per Peter's own words in Acts 3:13.
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Whenever "the Name of the Lord" is used in Acts it is always in reference to Jesus.

You also ignored this point.

Pancho Frijoles said:
  • Third, just in the next verse, Acts 2:22, Peter again treats God and Jesus as different beings: Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth was a man attested to you by God with powerful works and wonders and signs, which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves know.
Click to expand...

Thus proving Jesus is not the Father.
 
Fred said:
Thus proving Jesus is not the Father.
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Again, just as our friend @dwight92070, you are reading "The Father" when the text does not say "The Father", but "God".
You did it automatically. Why?
To me, this is the Holy Spirit talking from your heart, where the notion that "God is The Father" is embedded.

All Trinitarians expose their true intimate belief this way, sooner or later. They can't help it. I've seen it dozens of times.
The truth of God is in the depths of their minds, and will come up to the surface either in the middle of a debate, or in the middle of an earthquake when their lives are in danger.

THIS IS HOW THE TEXT READS:
Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth was a man attested to you by God with powerful works and wonders and signs, which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves know.​

THIS IS HOW YOU READ:
Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth was a man attested to you by The Father with powerful works and wonders and signs, which The Father did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves know.​
​
In conclusion, Peter knew Jesus was not God precisely because Jesus was not the Father.
God is the father of Jesus and our father.
 
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Pancho Frijoles said:
Again, just as our friend @dwight92070, you are reading "The Father" when the text does not say "The Father", but "God".
You did it automatically. Why?
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Because theos primarily refers to the Father, while kyrios primarily refers to the Son.

Speaking of which, no Unitarian has yet to be able to differentiate between the creator and their creature-jesus in these passages.

Perhaps you can be the first???

 
Fred said:
Whenever "the Name of the Lord" is used in Acts it is always in reference to Jesus.
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Your assumption is not correct.
If Jesus or an apostle of Jesus is quoting the Tanakh, they are using the term as the authors of the Tanakh used it.

Again: the Jewish apostles were not teaching the Jewish audience a new God of Israel.
 
Runningman said:
Not much to comment on due to sheer lack of supporting verses. One may argue to the contrary, but there are no explicit examples where someone taught to pray to Jesus in the Bible. There are no examples of the word "pray" or "prayer" being used in conjunction with communicating to Jesus.

The Bible teaches to pray to God the Father. That's it.

Matthew 6​
6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.​
​
9So then, this is how you should pray:​
‘Our Father in heaven,​
hallowed be Your name.​
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I now spend much of my time right inside the spirit as close as I can get right in their face.The Greek word menō translated "abide" often deals with being in him, which I'm very concerned about when it comes to walking in Christ, which I believe is the same as walking in the spirit. To be in him or to abide in him deals with remaining or continuing to be present. To dwell, live, and be within him to the end that we are operative in him by his divine influence and energy. My first red flag that started me looking into how to do this was when I realized it's the Catholics that teach we are sinners. They teach us to look at ourselves and our sin. I teach that we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.
 
Pancho Frijoles said:
I agree with you.
May I ask you why do you think the authors of the New Testament use Theos to refer to the Father?
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One of the reasons is to avoid what would later be known as Modalism - the belief that Jesus is the Father.

This is why theos primarily (not exclusively) refers to the Father and kyrios primarily (not exclusively) refers to the Son.
When both theos and kyrios are used in reference to the Father and the Son they mean the Almighty God.
 
TomL said:
Angels were directed to worship Christ (um that is teaching)

Hello

How is that not teaching?

You are desperately framing trying to cut the bible up and word your statements in a manner to hide the truth Jesus was worshipped and prayed to

As i stated and you continue showing

You keep making these statements which are either outright false or simply framed as to hide truth
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A teaching for angels only "when" the son was brought into the world. There is no teaching for it to continue. Your false doctrines survive by ignoring a little scripture here and there, misapplying it, etc. This doesn't apply to Christians.

Hebrews 1
6And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all God’s angels worship Him.”
 
TomL said:
Really?

Acts 4:9–12 (KJV 1900) — 9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

You have made multiple statements which are refuted by scripture.
Click to expand...
That doesn't say to call on the name of Jesus to be saved. The Bible says call on the name of the LORD (YHWH) to be saved. Your gospel is not recognizable as scripture. Just be honest, stop adding to the book, and you'll be fine.
 
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Fred said:
It does continue for eternity in that the angels are worshiping the Son (Revelation 5:12-14).
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Bad reading. They aren't worshipping the Son in Revelation 5:12-14. Begin with verse 11. They are around the throne.

11And I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, and of the living creatures, and of the elders; and their number was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,​

The One on the throne isn't the Lamb aren't the same person:

13And I heard every creature which is in heaven, and upon the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and everything in them, saying:​
​
“To the One sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb,​

So where they fell down and worshipped is around the throne:

14And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.​
 
Runningman said:
Yes and he honestly taught you how to pray

Matthew 6
9Therefore pray you like this:
‘Our Father in the heavens,
hallowed be Your name!
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I agree.

The Lord Jesus also taught He is the proper recipient of prayer in John 14:14.

John 14:14
If ye shall ask Me anything in My Name, I will do it.
 
Runningman said:
That doesn't say to call on the name of Jesus to be saved. The Bible says call on the name of the LORD (YHWH) to be saved. Your gospel is not recognizable as scripture. Just be honest, stop adding to the book, and you'll be fine.
Click to expand...
It does if you actually read the passage

cts 4:9–12 (KJV 1900) — 9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

what name there is no other name by under heaven whereby we must be saved

You offer nothing but denial of te evidence
 

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