The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

[Runningman]

[Dwight} Like all Watchtower Society disciples, you have to take the verse out of its context.

@dwight92070 I am not a JW nor have ever been to a kingdom hall before.

Jesus was giving His last words to His apostles shorty before His crucifixion. So yes, He was referring to prayer because He would soon be gone and they would need to pray to both Him and the Father.

Some of Jesus' final instruction prior to being taken to heaven only mention asking the Father though.

Jesus stated to not ask him for anything.

[Dwight] But He didn't say not to talk to Him or sing to Him or worship Him, did He? Your legalism comes up again.

Jesus taught to obey what he commanded only.

Matthew 28
20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

If they couldn't ask Him anything, then Stephen sinned by praying to Him, when He was being stoned; Paul sinned by praying to the Lord and asking Him to remove His thorn in the flesh, the Corinthians sinned because they "called on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ"; John sinned by praying "Come, Lord Jesus." in the 2nd to the last verse in the Bible.

Those aren't sins because they aren't prayers. In Revelation 7:13,14 John also spoke to one of the elders in heaven. Was that a prayer was it?

[Dwight] The truth is that Jesus NEVER COMMANDED them to not ask Him anything. Rather He was telling them that they could go directly to the Father, which all believers do - but we also pray to, talk to, sing to, and worship Jesus.

Just strictly observe what he taught and you'll be fine.

[Dwight] "Lord" in the Old Testament almost always refers to God. "Lord" in the New Testament can refer to either God the Father or Jesus His Son, depending on the context. The point is, both God and Jesus are called "Lord", and yet we know that there is only ONE LORD.

You may observe that in the Old Testament, where the word "LORD" is capitalized that it always refers to YHWH while when Jesus is spoken of in a prophetic sense, such as Psalm 2:7 and Psalm 110:1, and called Lord, he is distinct from the LORD YHWH. They actually don't even use the same Hebrew words. I think we may have actually identified where your misunderstanding is. Jesus is by no means Lord God Almighty in the Old Testament. It doesn't transfer Jesus is in the New Testament. Paul, I think, may have possibly been meaning to address this in 1 Corinthians 8.

It says what it says. Let's go with it. I am.

1 Corinthians 8
5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

 

[TomL]

@dwight92070 I am not a JW nor have ever been to a kingdom hall before.

Unitarian?

In any case Jesus is prayed to and worshipped

 

[David Koberstein]

yes its just another unitarian straw man.

their logic is full of contradictions and hypocrisy.

For example they will die on this hill below.

the Bible calls the Father the One God, the only God the True God which excuses the Son from being God.

but refuse the same logic and reasoning for the Son below.

the Bible calls the Son the One Lord, only Lord, Lord over all which excludes the Father from being Lord.

as a side note to add to the Son- He is also called the True God and eternal life in 1 John 5:20.

they want their cake and eat it too.

You are exactly correct!

 

[civic]

You are exactly correct!

Amen

 

[Adherent]

This explains it

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Not when it comes to praying to the Father would cancel out praying to Jesus.

Both are true and correct to do.

@Runningman opening thesis is that the Bible does not TEACH praying to Jesus, and the thesis holds true. Please read the quote of his opening post below.
In no verse the Bible ASKS us to pray to Jesus. In contrast, Jesus ASKED us to pray to the Father. In addition, The instances in which the Bible present believers praying to the Father are OVERWHELMINGLY more frequent than those presenting believers speaking to Jesus. So, what the Bible TEACHES on this matter is pretty clear.

Now, I am not saying that addressing Jesus is “canceled out” by such explicit biblical teaching. There are million of things that we are free to do in good conciousness that the Bible does not TEACH, but that the Bible does not FORBID.

The biblical teachings on modesty, prudence, and the life of the spirit do not cancel out automatically that a woman may undergo plastic surgery to enhance the size of her breasts. A woman could make that choice in good conciousness and respecting biblical basic teachings.

My contention here is that disciples who spoke to Jesus like Paul or Peter or Stephan knew perfectly well that Jesus was not God, because that is what the texts in Acts show explicitly.
Neither you nor @civic have explained why these disciples treated God and Jesus as separate beings.
Neither you nor @civic have explained Why these disciples treated God as a Person and not as an Assembly or Council.

Not much to comment on due to sheer lack of supporting verses. One may argue to the contrary, but there are no explicit examples where someone taught to pray to Jesus in the Bible. There are no examples of the word "pray" or "prayer" being used in conjunction with communicating to Jesus.

The Bible teaches to pray to God the Father. That's it.

Matthew 6​

6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.​

​

9So then, this is how you should pray:​

‘Our Father in heaven,​

hallowed be Your name.​

 

[Fred]

@Runningman opening thesis is that the Bible does not TEACH praying to Jesus, and the thesis holds true.

The above is false.

In Acts 2:21 Peter (recorded by Luke) TAUGHT the Lord Jesus is to be called on (= prayed to) in that He is YHWH.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-lord-in-acts.206/#post-3584

Furthermore, you left out the part in the OP where he affirmed this:
There are no examples of the word "pray" or "prayer" being used in conjunction with communicating to Jesus.

The information from the link in post 2 refuted such an outlandish assertion.

Are you going to hide from Acts 2:21 as well?

 

[Runningman]

The above is false.

In Acts 2:21 Peter (recorded by Luke) TAUGHT the Lord Jesus is to be called on (= prayed to) in that He is YHWH.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-lord-in-acts.206/#post-3584

Furthermore, you left out the part in the OP where he affirmed this:
There are no examples of the word "pray" or "prayer" being used in conjunction with communicating to Jesus.

The information from the link in post 2 refuted such an outlandish assertion.

Are you going to hide from Acts 2:21 as well?

Acts 2:21 isn’t about Jesus and calling on someone in Scripture and real life doesn’t necessarily mean they’re praying.

The OP stands unchecked and unchallenged. It’s bulletproof. The only commandment, directive, teaching, etc regarding prayer is to the Father.

Matthew 6:6,9 is still there.

No one ever gave προσεύχῃ proseuchē in scripture. That’s a fact.

 

[Runningman]

Unitarian?

In any case Jesus is prayed to and worshipped

In any case the word for prayer isn’t ever used for communicating to Jesus in Scripture. I didn’t write the Bible, but I have no problem accepting it and believing it. You can do it, too, when you’re ready.

 

[synergy]

In any case the word for prayer isn’t ever used for communicating to Jesus in Scripture. I didn’t write the Bible, but I have no problem accepting it and believing it. You can do it, too, when you’re ready.

Within the New Covenant Prayer Service, initiated by Jesus Himself, prayer is definitely offered to Jesus for the communion of His Blood and Body that Christian Church Members partake of.

1 Cor 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
1 Cor 10:17 For we, the many, are one bread and one body; for we are all partakers of that one bread.

 

[David Koberstein]

Acts 2:21 isn’t about Jesus and calling on someone in Scripture and real life doesn’t necessarily mean they’re praying.

The OP stands unchecked and unchallenged. It’s bulletproof. The only commandment, directive, teaching, etc regarding prayer is to the Father.

Matthew 6:6,9 is still there.

No one ever gave προσεύχῃ proseuchē in scripture. That’s a fact.

Your false teachings are catching up with you. I guess you like to be humiliated with the smart astute Bible people on this forum.
You need to quit beating this dead dog and move back to your false man made Unitarian
religion.

 

[David Koberstein]

In any case the word for prayer isn’t ever used for communicating to Jesus in Scripture. I didn’t write the Bible, but I have no problem accepting it and believing it. You can do it, too, when you’re ready.

No Thank Adonai you didn't write the Bible.
The problem is your lies and deception.
You remind me of a creature from Genesis that had those same attributes.

 

[TomL]

In any case the word for prayer isn’t ever used for communicating to Jesus in Scripture. I didn’t write the Bible, but I have no problem accepting it and believing it. You can do it, too, when you’re ready.

What is stated is however easily identified as prayer

Only by ignoring that can you deny Jesus is prayed to

 

[Fred]

Acts 2:21 isn’t about Jesus

The "Lord" in Acts 2:21 is in reference to Jesus.
Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized each one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other Name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


When Luke uses the expression, "the Name of the Lord" in the Book of Acts it is always in reference to Jesus -> take special note of Acs 9:27-28.
Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved
Acts 8:16
For as yet He was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 9:27-28
(27) But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had spoken to him, and how he had spoken boldly at Damascus in the Name of Jesus.
(28) And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem. And he spoke boldly in the Name of the Lord.
Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:13
Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to name over those who had evil spirits the Name of the Lord Jesus, saying, I adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
Acts 19:17
And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the Name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
Acts 21:13
Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break my heart? For I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for
the Name of the Lord Jesus.

and calling on someone in Scripture and real life doesn’t necessarily mean they’re praying.

Calling on the Lord in Scripture always means to pray to Him.



Acts 2:21 is an exact quotation from Joel 3:5 of the Septuagint -> 2:32 in our English Bibles.
καὶ ἔσται πᾶς ὃς ἂν ἐπικαλέσηται τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου σωθήσεται
Thus, Peter (recorded by Luke) affirmed praying to the Lord Jesus as being YHWH.

 

[TomL]

Acts 2:21 isn’t about Jesus and calling on someone in Scripture and real life doesn’t necessarily mean they’re praying.

The OP stands unchecked and unchallenged. It’s bulletproof. The only commandment, directive, teaching, etc regarding prayer is to the Father.

Matthew 6:6,9 is still there.

No one ever gave προσεύχῃ proseuchē in scripture. That’s a fact.

That can be debated

Acts 1:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

As Lord is a title of Christ

also calling on the lord is prayer

However it is certain Jesus was in fact prayed to as shown by previous scripture


You appear to be framing once again

 

[Complete]

'Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities:
for we know not what we should pray for as we ought:
but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us
with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And He that searcheth the hearts
knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit,
because He maketh intercession for the saints
according to the will of God.'
(Rom 8:26-27)

Hello there,

Peter and Paul referred to God as:- 'The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ'

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings
in heavenly places in Christ:'
(Eph.1:3)

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
which according to His abundant mercy
hath begotten us again unto a lively hope
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead'
(1Pet.1:3)

'My little children, these things write I unto you,
that ye sin not. And if any man sin,
we have an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous:
And He is the propitiation for our sins:
and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of the whole world.'
(1Jn 2:1-2)

Praise His Holy Name!

Complete

 

[Complete]

'And in that day ye shall ask me nothing.
Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name,
He will give it you.
Hitherto have ye asked nothing in My name:
ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.'
(Joh 16:23-24)

 

[Complete]

'That which we have seen and heard
declare we unto you,
that ye also may have fellowship with us:
and truly our fellowship is with the Father,
and with His Son Jesus Christ.'
(1John.1:3)

 

[Runningman]

Within the New Covenant Prayer Service, initiated by Jesus Himself, prayer is definitely offered to Jesus for the communion of His Blood and Body that Christian Church Members partake of.

1 Cor 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
1 Cor 10:17 For we, the many, are one bread and one body; for we are all partakers of that one bread.

In the communion service Jesus didn't offer the prayer to himself. He gave thanks to the Father like all Christians are taught to.

Matthew 26
27Then He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying,

Colossians 1
12giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the light.

 

[Runningman]

Your false teachings are catching up with you. I guess you like to be humiliated with the smart astute Bible people on this forum.
You need to quit beating this dead dog and move back to your false man made Unitarian
religion.

No Thank Adonai you didn't write the Bible.
The problem is your lies and deception.
You remind me of a creature from Genesis that had those same attributes.

If I have such a big problem, why are you spending so much time in many comments over many days calling me a moron, suggesting I die, have a miserable life, leave the forum, etc? For the record, none of that bothers me. I still love you and hope you stay happy, healthy, and wealthy. You can take your anger out on me if you wish. I can take it. I hope it helps heal you.