The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

Pancho Frijoles said:
Dear readers

The Bible presents in Acts 4:23-30 a good example of how apostles prayed.
Note that they addressed the The Father, The Creator, and how when they mentioned Jesus, they referred to Jesus as
1) the holy Son of that Creator God
2) the Messiah (Annointed) of that Creator God
3) the one that would do what that Creator God had foreordained to do.

On being released, they went to their own people and reported what the chief priests and elders had said to them. When they heard this, they lifted their voices in unity to God and prayed,

“Lord, You are God, who has made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them,
and who by the mouth of Your servant David said:
‘Why did the nations rage,
and the people devise vain things?
The kings of the earth came,
and the rulers were assembled together
against the Lord
and against His Christ.’
Indeed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were assembled together against Your holy Son Jesus whom You have anointed, to do what Your hand and Your counsel had foreordained to be done.
Now, Lord, look on their threats and grant that Your servants may speak Your word with great boldness, by stretching out Your hand to heal and that signs and wonders may be performed in the name of Your holy Son Jesus.”

This is clear evidence that, regardless of if they spoke to Jesus at some valid circumstances, they prayed to God as The Father of Jesus.
In conclusion:
When praying, the apostles did not address God as a Supreme Council or Assembly. They addressed God as One Person: the Father of Jesus.
Click to expand...
That's one example of prayer but not how they always prayed as demonstrated in my earlier posts showing Jesus was addressed in prayer as well by the disciples.

hope this helps !!!
 
Pancho Frijoles said:
Dear readers

The Bible presents in Acts 4:23-30 a good example of how apostles prayed.
Note that they addressed directly the The Father, The Creator, and how when they mentioned Jesus, they referred to Jesus as
1) the holy Son of that Creator God
2) the Messiah (Annointed) of that Creator God
3) the one that did what that Creator God had foreordained Him to do.

On being released, they went to their own people and reported what the chief priests and elders had said to them. When they heard this, they lifted their voices in unity to God and prayed, ​

“Lord, You are God, who has made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, ​
and who by the mouth of Your servant David said:​
‘Why did the nations rage,​
and the people devise vain things?​
The kings of the earth came,​
and the rulers were assembled together​
against the Lord​
and against His Christ.’​
Indeed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were assembled together against Your holy Son Jesus whom You have anointed, to do what Your hand and Your counsel had foreordained to be done. ​
Now, Lord, look on their threats and grant that Your servants may speak Your word with great boldness, by stretching out Your hand to heal and that signs and wonders may be performed in the name of Your holy Son Jesus.”​

This is clear evidence that, regardless of if they spoke to Jesus at some valid circumstances, they prayed to God as The Father of Jesus.
In conclusion:
When praying, the apostles did not address God as a Supreme Council or Assembly. They addressed God as One Person: the Father of Jesus.
Click to expand...
yes indeed, it's very clear that when John and Peter prayed together they didn't believe Jesus is God or address their prayer to Jesus.
 
Runningman said:
yes indeed, it's very clear that when John and Peter prayed together they didn't believe Jesus is God or address their prayer to Jesus.
Click to expand...
Below is just one example of many I can provide from Peter, Paul and John affirming the Deity of Christ , that He is God.

2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

We have a second person possessive pronoun "Our" modifying two different improper nouns (God and Savior) joined by "and" (Kia) to identify a proper noun (Jesus) [Granville/Sharp's]. Therefore, by basic grammar, we are identifying Jesus as God and Savior. We don't even have to know the Greek to see that Jesus is being called both God and Savior/ Lord and Savior in Peters 2nd Epistle. 2 Peter 2:20 and 2 Peter 3:18 also have the same Greek construction as 1:1 and 1:11.

But for those interested in the Greek here is the comparison of 1:1 and 1:11.

τοῦ is the same.
ἡμῶν is the same.
καὶ is the same.
Σωτῆρος is the same.
Ἰησοῦ is the same.
Χριστοῦ· is the same.

And all in the same order.

The only difference is the noun "Θεοῦ" in v.1, while "Κυρίου" is in v.11.

So if he wants to deny that Jesus is "God" ("theou") in v.1, then he has to deny that Jesus is "Lord" ("kuriou") in v.11. Otherwise he's being inconsistent and dishonest with the text. To say otherwise is proof positive one has an agenda when reading scripture and using eisegesis rather than exegesis of the biblical text in question.

Paul is Titus 2:13 does the same as Peter above calling Jesus his God and Savior. John does the same is 1 John 5:20 and John 1:1, 20:28.

hope this helps !!!
 
civic said:
That's one example of prayer but not how they always prayed as demonstrated in my earlier posts showing Jesus was addressed in prayer as well by the disciples.

hope this helps !!!
Click to expand...
The passage in Acts 4:23-230 uses the word "prayed".
The other passages show the disciples speaking to Jesus. Paul also spoke to Jesus in the way to Damascus, didn't he?

What I am highlighting here, though, is the content of such prayer: you can identify what the apostles thought about the relation between God and Jesus.
So, regardless of how, when or why they spoke to Jesus (which is a valid, beautiful and inspiring thing to do within the right context) they understood that Jesus was NOT God.

This is not an isolated statement from the Book of Acts, but is aligned with the other passages of the book quoting what the apostles belived on the relationship between God and Jesus:

  • Acts 3:13 "The God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His Son Jesus, whom you handed over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him"
  • Acts 4:10 "be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands before you whole."
 
Fred said:
As if an example of prayer to the Father cancels out all the prayers to the Lord Jesus.
Click to expand...
yes its just another unitarian straw man.

their logic is full of contradictions and hypocrisy.

For example they will die on this hill below.

the Bible calls the Father the One God, the only God the True God which excuses the Son from being God.

but refuse the same logic and reasoning for the Son below.

the Bible calls the Son the One Lord, only Lord, Lord over all which excludes the Father from being Lord.

as a side note to add to the Son- He is also called the True God and eternal life in 1 John 5:20. :)

they want their cake and eat it too. :)
 
civic said:
Below is just one example of many I can provide from Peter, Paul and John affirming the Deity of Christ , that He is God.

2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

We have a second person possessive pronoun "Our" modifying two different improper nouns (God and Savior) joined by "and" (Kia) to identify a proper noun (Jesus) [Granville/Sharp's]. Therefore, by basic grammar, we are identifying Jesus as God and Savior. We don't even have to know the Greek to see that Jesus is being called both God and Savior/ Lord and Savior in Peters 2nd Epistle. 2 Peter 2:20 and 2 Peter 3:18 also have the same Greek construction as 1:1 and 1:11.

But for those interested in the Greek here is the comparison of 1:1 and 1:11.

τοῦ is the same.
ἡμῶν is the same.
καὶ is the same.
Σωτῆρος is the same.
Ἰησοῦ is the same.
Χριστοῦ· is the same.

And all in the same order.

The only difference is the noun "Θεοῦ" in v.1, while "Κυρίου" is in v.11.

So if he wants to deny that Jesus is "God" ("theou") in v.1, then he has to deny that Jesus is "Lord" ("kuriou") in v.11. Otherwise he's being inconsistent and dishonest with the text. To say otherwise is proof positive one has an agenda when reading scripture and using eisegesis rather than exegesis of the biblical text in question.

Paul is Titus 2:13 does the same as Peter above calling Jesus his God and Savior. John does the same is 1 John 5:20 and John 1:1, 20:28.

hope this helps !!!
Click to expand...
Grammatically, in the context, God and Jesus aren't the same person. An argument built on proof-texting isn't really a valid argument because it holds contradictions against Scripture.

2 Peter 1
2Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
 
If you pray to Jesus Or in Jesus name you are praying to God.

Jesus said unto him, “Have I been so long a time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 14:9
 
Fred said:
Some Unitarians falsely believe that an example of prayer/prayers to the Father cancels out all the prayers to the Lord Jesus.
Click to expand...
It's perfectly OK if you want to speak to Jesus, my friend.
That must be an uplifting experience.
I just encourage you to bear in mind that such Jesus you are speaking to
  • intercedes before Someone bigger than him
  • has received authority from Someone bigger than him
  • worships Someone bigger than him
  • will deliver up the Kingdom to Someone bigger than him
 
Runningman said:
Grammatically, in the context, God and Jesus aren't the same person. An argument built on proof-texting isn't really a valid argument because it holds contradictions against Scripture.

2 Peter 1
2Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
Click to expand...
grammatically the text calls Christ both God and Savior just like it calls Him Lord and Savior. The construction is the exact same.

you have no leg to stand upon from the text, the Greek or grammatically but only your BIASED opinion based upon your PRESUPPOSITIONS you read into every text which is : Jesus is not God therefor I will deny every text which calls Him God, infers He is God, prayed to as God and worshipped as God by His disciples and those he healed.
 
Pancho Frijoles said:
  • Acts 3:13 "The God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His Son Jesus, whom you handed over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him"
Click to expand...


Keep going...

Acts 3:14
But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you.


"The Righteous One" (in reference to Jesus) is also used in Acts 7.

Acts 7:52
Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? And they have slain those who previously announced the coming of the Righteous One; whose betrayers and murderers you have now become.

The Righteous One, being the Lord, links with the fact that the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer (which proves He is God).
Acts 7:59-60
(59) And they stoned Stephen as he called out saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
(60) And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not hold this sin against them!
 
Kenny said:
If you pray to Jesus Or in Jesus name you are praying to God.
Click to expand...
I agree. If done with sincerity, taking Jesus as an Intercessor.
I also believe that many Catholics are praying to God when addressing Virgin Mary.
God looks into our hearts and understand our intentions.
 
Runningman said:
It's more than just communicating to someone and yes I know what prayer is. It's in regards to worship in spirit and truth and Jesus only ever taught about worshipping in spirit and truth for the Father. Did you know that?
Click to expand...
Worship is but one form of prayer but Jesus was worshipped as well

But again you self refute for Jesus was worshipped

John 9:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

Mark 5:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

Matthew 28:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
 
Fred said:
Keep going...

Acts 3:14
But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you.


"The Righteous One" (in reference to Jesus) is also used in Acts 7.

Acts 7:52
Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? And they have slain those who previously announced the coming of the Righteous One; whose betrayers and murderers you have now become.

The Righteous One, being the Lord, links with the fact that the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer (which proves He is God).
Acts 7:59-60
(59) And they stoned Stephen as he called out saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
(60) And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not hold this sin against them!
Click to expand...
Yes and Lord is Jesus whom Stephen was calling out to in prayer.
 
TomL said:
Worship is but one form of prayer but Jesus was worshipped as well

But again you self refute for Jesus was worshipped

John 9:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

Mark 5:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

Matthew 28:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Click to expand...
Amen it's hard to believe how some can read those verses saying He was worshipped and with a straight face say He was not. Talk about De Nile.
 

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