brightfame52
Well-known member
This explains nothing about Jn 12:32
Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Rowan
Active member
This may help you
Bible Concordances - Use Free Online
Quickly find the meaning of words in the Bible using an online Bible concordance! Understand bible verses more clearly using the Strong’s, Torrey’s, Nave’s, and Treasury of Scripture Knowledge.
Obadiah
Well-known member
All are able but not all will believe.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16
All means ALL
brightfame52
Well-known member
Poor proof
Obadiah
Well-known member
Truth is truth. The obvious truth is that Jesus commanded them to repent because he was not willing that any would perish and desired that all would come to repentance, something God has grace enabled everyone who hears the truth to be able to do.
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that ALL should reach repentance.
2 Pet 3:9
“And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32)
Key Point: Jesus' crucifixion initiates a universal call. That makes you Calvinists all Universalists.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You havent proved no truth
brightfame52
Well-known member
Nothing changed, still:“And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32)
Key Point: Jesus' crucifixion initiates a universal call. That makes you Calvinists all Universalists.
Man by nature doesnt have the ability to believe in Jesus Jn 6:65
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
??????????
Romans 10:17 (NASB95) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
simply shows the need to hear
Romans 10:14–15 (NASB95) — 14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”
Obadiah
Well-known member
How would you know? You mind is under the delusion of Calvinism
brightfame52
Well-known member
You should know, and calvinism tulip is the Gospel
Obadiah
Well-known member
I do know. And now we are back to TULIP is the gospel. Let do so digging deeper on tulip shall we?
Obadiah
Well-known member
Lets start with T
What they really mean by “total depravity” is “total inability”; which is to say that man is incapable of doing anything good, including believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. That man is so depraved, he cannot, of his own freewill, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.
They like to use the illustration of a dead body, a literal cadaver. They cite Ephesians 2:1, stating that we are so dead, that we cannot respond to God. That God has to enable us to believe on him, otherwise no man could ever believe on Jesus Christ. Ironically, when you talk with different individual Calvinists on this point, their programming compels them all to present the same defense, with the same verbiage, with almost identical inflection points in the articulation of their speech:
“Can a dead body believe?!!”, they say.
What’s funny is how contrived, weak, and question begging this response really is. I question whether Calvinists even believe what they are parroting.
In any case, yes, man is spiritually dead by default. By this, the Bible says that we cannot please God without first believing the gospel. It does not mean that man is incapable of believing the gospel, which is what Calvinism espouses.
In Hebrews 11:6, notice how God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him: “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” This implies that they are not yet rewarded, until after they diligently seek him. If God has to enable you to “diligently seek him,” then he has already rewarded you with the ability to seek him. This is clearly a twisted interpretation of this passage, yet this is how Calvinists read all such passages in scripture.
And if you look at Ephesians Chapter 1, in context. It says:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
It says that “we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.” Note that it also says, “in whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the word of truth.” So, a “dead” person can, in fact, trust on God by first hearing the word of truth: the gospel of his salvation. It then follows that the promise of “being predestinated to the praise of his glory” happens as a result of that belief.
This is the gospel: that you are guaranteed Heaven by first believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.
This correct gospel is presented the same way in practice, as demonstrated in Acts 16, when the Philippian Jailer (unsaved) asked Paul:
Jailer: “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Paul responded: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
Paul didn’t respond with a bunch of buffoonery like: “You cannot do anything to be saved… Can a dead body believe?!!”
Nor did Paul do a bait-and-switch by telling the jailer that all he had to do is believe, all the while knowing in the back of his mind that a dead man cannot believe. Only a Calvinist would do something as doubleminded as that.
In the book of Romans, Paul juxtaposes works against grace through faith. Stating that they are not the same thing. Even if you were as dead as a cadaver, and cannot do any good whatsoever, it still remains that you can believe. Because faith is not a meritorious “good work” as some Calvinists would like you to think. Instead, it is just an exercise of discretion, a mental assent.
Romans 11
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
And let’s not forget Ephesians 2:8-9. Salvation is the gift of God. It is made efficacious by faith.
Besides all this, common sense tells you that faith is not meritorious. Imagine a person that is utterly depraved, self-centered, psychopathic, and even God-hating. And this person only does what’s in their best interest, without regard for morality or the well-being of anyone else. If that person is persuaded that God is real, and that an eternal Hell awaits them for their sins; And they realize that Jesus took the penalty for all sins; And that all that is required of them is to believe on Jesus Christ; It then logically follows that it’s in their best interest to believe on Jesus Christ and be saved.
Even if that person continues as they were, in their manner of life and hatred towards all that is called good. If they believe on Jesus Christ, then they can be saved from the penalty of their sins. Where is the good works in this? There are no good works to speak of. This is nothing more than acknowledging the truth. Once again, this is the gospel.
Romans 3
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By one of works? No, on the contrary, by a law of faith.
Calvinists (and most Christian denominations) portray faith in Christ as if it were some kind of morally good action: That only good men believe on God, or that it requires moral excellence to believe on Christ. This is not what is written in scripture:
1 John
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
God first loved us. This is displayed on the cross. And because of that, we believe on him for salvation.
And finally, to quote God Himself on the matter, Jesus Christ is of the opinion that a “dead man” can believe and be saved. Hear the words that came out of his own mouth:
John 11
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
Therefore, we conclude that all men are utterly depraved. And so, God chooses to save anyone who wants to be saved.
And let’s take a step back and just look at the big picture. Heaven is a perfect place, you must be perfect to enter therein. This excludes everyone, because nobody is perfect. Therefore, God lowered the bar all the way to the dirt of the ground.
The spirit behind the cross, in doing all of this, is to enable anyone to come in. It’s by faith, to make it easy to come in. Otherwise, what’s the point of making it by faith, if it is impossible for man to have faith? It defeats the whole purpose of the cross. It defeats the whole purpose of doing away with the law.
If it is impossible to believe, you might as well say that you have to keep the whole law perfectly. Because, according to Calvinists, it’s impossible for man to have faith; just as impossible as it is for man to keep the law. You have nullified grace by making faith an impossibility.
Therefore, “total depravity” is a completely useless, vain, and self-defeating doctrine that nullifies God’s work on the cross, and calls God a liar. It is pure antichrist garbage, straight out of the pits of Hell. It also makes a mockery of God, and the entire narrative of the Bible is just an inconsequential, point-less, predetermined play. Nothing really has any significance, it’s just a bunch of meaningless puppetry. Even the actions that God takes are void of meaning or significance. Look at the following discourse on how Calvinism renders the teaching of the Bible, assuming that Calvin’s conception of God is accurate:
Calvin’s god says: “let me do away with the law.”
Normal people ask: “for what reason?”
Calvinist answer: “We may never know…it’s for his glory…”
Then Calvin’s god says: “it’s by faith, it’s by faith!”
Normal people ask: “Why? If it’s impossible for man to have faith?”
Calvinist answer: “We may never know…it’s for his glory…”
And then Calvin’s god picks some and not others to have faith.
Normal people ask: “Why?”
Calvinist answer, “We may never know…it’s for his glory…”
You get the picture, they nullify the entire Bible with their antichrist garbage.
soteriology101.com
Total Depravity
This first point is something that you are likely to agree with, that man is totally depraved. We all know that people are inherently sinful and that nobody is perfect, of course. But that is not what Calvinists mean by “total depravity,” though they are happy to pander to your initial false impression for a season… in hopes of further indoctrinating you.What they really mean by “total depravity” is “total inability”; which is to say that man is incapable of doing anything good, including believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. That man is so depraved, he cannot, of his own freewill, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.
They like to use the illustration of a dead body, a literal cadaver. They cite Ephesians 2:1, stating that we are so dead, that we cannot respond to God. That God has to enable us to believe on him, otherwise no man could ever believe on Jesus Christ. Ironically, when you talk with different individual Calvinists on this point, their programming compels them all to present the same defense, with the same verbiage, with almost identical inflection points in the articulation of their speech:
“Can a dead body believe?!!”, they say.
What’s funny is how contrived, weak, and question begging this response really is. I question whether Calvinists even believe what they are parroting.
In any case, yes, man is spiritually dead by default. By this, the Bible says that we cannot please God without first believing the gospel. It does not mean that man is incapable of believing the gospel, which is what Calvinism espouses.
In Hebrews 11:6, notice how God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him: “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” This implies that they are not yet rewarded, until after they diligently seek him. If God has to enable you to “diligently seek him,” then he has already rewarded you with the ability to seek him. This is clearly a twisted interpretation of this passage, yet this is how Calvinists read all such passages in scripture.
And if you look at Ephesians Chapter 1, in context. It says:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
It says that “we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.” Note that it also says, “in whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the word of truth.” So, a “dead” person can, in fact, trust on God by first hearing the word of truth: the gospel of his salvation. It then follows that the promise of “being predestinated to the praise of his glory” happens as a result of that belief.
This is the gospel: that you are guaranteed Heaven by first believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.
This correct gospel is presented the same way in practice, as demonstrated in Acts 16, when the Philippian Jailer (unsaved) asked Paul:
Jailer: “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Paul responded: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
Paul didn’t respond with a bunch of buffoonery like: “You cannot do anything to be saved… Can a dead body believe?!!”
Nor did Paul do a bait-and-switch by telling the jailer that all he had to do is believe, all the while knowing in the back of his mind that a dead man cannot believe. Only a Calvinist would do something as doubleminded as that.
In the book of Romans, Paul juxtaposes works against grace through faith. Stating that they are not the same thing. Even if you were as dead as a cadaver, and cannot do any good whatsoever, it still remains that you can believe. Because faith is not a meritorious “good work” as some Calvinists would like you to think. Instead, it is just an exercise of discretion, a mental assent.
Romans 11
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
And let’s not forget Ephesians 2:8-9. Salvation is the gift of God. It is made efficacious by faith.
Besides all this, common sense tells you that faith is not meritorious. Imagine a person that is utterly depraved, self-centered, psychopathic, and even God-hating. And this person only does what’s in their best interest, without regard for morality or the well-being of anyone else. If that person is persuaded that God is real, and that an eternal Hell awaits them for their sins; And they realize that Jesus took the penalty for all sins; And that all that is required of them is to believe on Jesus Christ; It then logically follows that it’s in their best interest to believe on Jesus Christ and be saved.
Even if that person continues as they were, in their manner of life and hatred towards all that is called good. If they believe on Jesus Christ, then they can be saved from the penalty of their sins. Where is the good works in this? There are no good works to speak of. This is nothing more than acknowledging the truth. Once again, this is the gospel.
Romans 3
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By one of works? No, on the contrary, by a law of faith.
Calvinists (and most Christian denominations) portray faith in Christ as if it were some kind of morally good action: That only good men believe on God, or that it requires moral excellence to believe on Christ. This is not what is written in scripture:
1 John
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
God first loved us. This is displayed on the cross. And because of that, we believe on him for salvation.
And finally, to quote God Himself on the matter, Jesus Christ is of the opinion that a “dead man” can believe and be saved. Hear the words that came out of his own mouth:
John 11
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
Therefore, we conclude that all men are utterly depraved. And so, God chooses to save anyone who wants to be saved.
And let’s take a step back and just look at the big picture. Heaven is a perfect place, you must be perfect to enter therein. This excludes everyone, because nobody is perfect. Therefore, God lowered the bar all the way to the dirt of the ground.
The spirit behind the cross, in doing all of this, is to enable anyone to come in. It’s by faith, to make it easy to come in. Otherwise, what’s the point of making it by faith, if it is impossible for man to have faith? It defeats the whole purpose of the cross. It defeats the whole purpose of doing away with the law.
If it is impossible to believe, you might as well say that you have to keep the whole law perfectly. Because, according to Calvinists, it’s impossible for man to have faith; just as impossible as it is for man to keep the law. You have nullified grace by making faith an impossibility.
Therefore, “total depravity” is a completely useless, vain, and self-defeating doctrine that nullifies God’s work on the cross, and calls God a liar. It is pure antichrist garbage, straight out of the pits of Hell. It also makes a mockery of God, and the entire narrative of the Bible is just an inconsequential, point-less, predetermined play. Nothing really has any significance, it’s just a bunch of meaningless puppetry. Even the actions that God takes are void of meaning or significance. Look at the following discourse on how Calvinism renders the teaching of the Bible, assuming that Calvin’s conception of God is accurate:
Calvin’s god says: “let me do away with the law.”
Normal people ask: “for what reason?”
Calvinist answer: “We may never know…it’s for his glory…”
Then Calvin’s god says: “it’s by faith, it’s by faith!”
Normal people ask: “Why? If it’s impossible for man to have faith?”
Calvinist answer: “We may never know…it’s for his glory…”
And then Calvin’s god picks some and not others to have faith.
Normal people ask: “Why?”
Calvinist answer, “We may never know…it’s for his glory…”
You get the picture, they nullify the entire Bible with their antichrist garbage.
Tiptoeing Through TULIP with Dr. Leighton Flowers
This is a 6-Session study on the biblical doctrines of salvation (Soteriology) with Dr. Leighton Flowers. In this study we unpack the key errors of the “limited” 5-point Calvinistic per…
soteriology101.com
You have a serious problem interpreting scripture
The verse you quote
John 12:39–40 (LEB) — 39 For this reason they were not able to believe, because again Isaiah said, 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”
Show God had to blind them and harden them so they would not believe
Hello
The verse refutes your theology
Last edited:
Johann
Well-known member
You mean where it states they were hardened?
Obadiah
Well-known member
Unconditional Election
Unconditional election alleges that God unconditionally and unchangeably selects some people from the beginning of time to be saved, and not others. God picks some and not others. “Not others,” is a euphemism for saying that God predetermines the rest to Hell. It has nothing to do with works because Romans 11:6, Ephesians 2:8-9, John 3, and Galatians (pretty much the entire Bible) forbids that any man could be justified by works in the sight of God. Which is true, but Calvinists seem to think that faith is a work. Therefore, Calvin thinks that no one is able to believe in God to be saved. Hyper-Calvinists would go so far as to claim that God would doom babies to Hell from the womb, and cite Romans 9:11 as proof text for this.So, this unconditional election stands on the shoulders of the previous point in “T” in TULIP (Total depravity).
In the words of Calvinists, they say:
“Because of humanity’s total depravity, God of necessity, in eternity past, chose certain people to be saved. There was nothing inherently better or different about the chosen people which caused God to choose them. God was totally free in His decision to show grace and mercy to some sinners who deserved nothing but His wrath. This is, in essence, the doctrine of Unconditional Election” (https://www.gospeloutreach.net/unconditional_election.html).
Remember, total depravity is actually defined as: incapable of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the true meaning of that word, as understood by Calvinists. But they do not plainly lay this out, when they go off to present and teach their doctrine. This is to evade the implications of their doctrine long enough to plant seeds of Calvin in your mind. So, in truth, that first line reads:
“Because no one is capable of believing on Christ, God, from eternity past, has to unilaterally force some to believe”
But as established earlier, “total inability” is a false doctrine. And if man is capable of believing on Christ, then it is not “of necessity that God, in eternity past, chose certain to be saved.” Thus, the logical necessity that Calvinists try to establish is completely undone, as their premise of “total depravity” is unfounded.
On to the next line:
“There was nothing inherently better or different about the chosen people which caused God to choose them”
This is complete denial of the truth of scripture. This is false piety, false humility. There is a difference between the saved and the unsaved. Faith is the difference. Faith is the condition of salvation. Just as it is written in the old testament, God told his people that he would pass over them, provided they mark their door posts with blood.
Exodus 12
7 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
God’s statement wasn’t: “I will pass over some of you, for no reason known unto, for I have ordained it from the foundation of the world. There is nothing that you can do, for I will smite whom I will smite.”
No. He said to put the blood over the door posts. If you do not put the blood over the door posts, he will not pass over you. Even if you are a Jew, Egyptian, man, or beast. That was the requirement. That is what God sees: He is looking for the blood on the door post. The blood on the door post in Egypt is a metaphor of the blood on the cross. God is looking for faith: faith in Jesus Christ and his shed blood on the cross.
Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2For by it the elders obtained a good report.
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
John 3
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Faith in the finished work of the cross is the difference that is required for salvation. And anyone can believe on Jesus Christ. That is the difference between those that are saved and those that are unsaved. The unsaved have never believed on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.
Still, Calvinists maintain that they were enabled by God to believe. And that faith is the vehicle through which God unconditionally elects them. And when asked why God chose them, rather than others, many Calvinists say:
“I have no idea why God picked me, but I am sure glad he did!” (When they make this statement, programming dictates that they accompany this defense with a glazed look on their face…. with a hint of admiration… staring off into the distance… their minds fixed on Calvin.)
This mentality is thoroughly asinine, to the point that it calls God a liar. God does not unconditionally save some and not others. Election is conditional. It is granted on the condition that a man believes on Jesus Christ. By stating that faith is the means by which God elects some and not others, that all men are incapable of believing by default; and so, God must unilaterally elect some to believe, undermines the very meaning of the word believe. Because faith, as defined in the Bible, is an act of the will, to believe something.
Revelation 22
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
John 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
The Bible says that “God is no respecter of persons”(Acts 10:34). Therefore, he cannot arbitrarily pick some and not others, based on no differentiating condition. Besides, it is clearly written that faith is the condition of salvation. And once Christ is crucified, he would draw all men unto himself.
John 12
22 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
1 Corinthians 15
22 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Romans 5
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
So, you have to receive the abundance of grace in order to receive Christ’s righteousness as your own. How do you receive the abundance of grace? You guessed it, by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.
Next line in the Calvinist statement of unconditional election:
“God was totally free in His decision to show grace and mercy to some sinners who deserved nothing but His wrath.”
This last point is really a Pandora’s box. There are many assumptions that are made in this comment that are not adequately addressed in all 1200 pages of Calvin’s Institutes. Calvin assumes a nature of time, free will, God’s sovereignty; all of which are up to subjective interpretation. You would think that in such a big book, that he would at least try to address these assumptions with clarity. But he does not, and truly cannot. It is embarrassing, just as the parable of the house builder:
Luke 6
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Calvinists love to scream out the words: “Sovereign,” “Sovereign!” They love to say that God is a sovereign lord, just as the parable in Matthew says. They call him Lord, Lord, but they do not do the things that He says. And what does God ask us to do?
John 14
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
But they do not. In fact, they refuse to believe on God. They refuse to believe that whosoever believes in Jesus Christ shall be saved. Instead, they’ve confounded the word in their own reprobate minds. They claim that man cannot believe on God, even though God asks that they do believe on him (which obviously implies that they can). Otherwise, they envision God playing out some cosmic version of marionettes, like a child in a sandbox. And not only does God do things in vain, but he says things in vain. They are mocking God and calling him a liar.
Galatians 6
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
And what must you sow? Or what does it mean to “sow to the Spirit,” if you intend on reaping everlasting life?
Galatians 2
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Believe in Jesus Christ. This is the sowing that is required in order to reap eternal life.
Calvinists attribute their belief as being the predetermined enablement from God. And that they, of themselves, cannot believe God. This is heresy, and mocks God. You see, YOU need to sow, in order for YOU to reap.
But Calvinists refuse to do this. Instead, they prefer to sow to their flesh. They would much rather take up the writings of a man to disannul the 1 thing that God requires of man. And for what hope? Why do they do these things? It’s because they would like prance around in their fleshly mind, as though they were some kind of elite breed of Christian. That they are master logicians and exercise their heightened intelligence to find out the deep things of God. This is sowing to the flesh.
Job 11
7 Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?
8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
9 The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.
“What canst thou do? What canst thou know?” – EXACTLY! Calvinists do not know what time is, what freewill is, what consciousness is, how God makes decisions with respect to time, etc… We know nothing. So, to shoe-horn determinism into God’s salvation is sick and foolish, especially when you consider the implications.
But never mind this, Calvinists don’t care for truth and would rather foolishly build for themselves a house on the sands of false assumptions, mockery, and the works of the hands of men. And when the day of Judgement comes, the waters thereof will wash them, and all of their works away. They are just like the Pharisees, whom Jesus hated. Not because he hated them from the foundation of the world, but because they were hypocrites that suppressed truth:
Luke 11
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Matthew 23
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
I am telling you to dig past those things and build on the rock. Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross is that rock.
Romans 9
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
2 Corinthians 10
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
You do this by believing the gospel, in its essence, on its face value, without any preconceived or contrived notions that would undermine it’s plain meaning. You believe John 5:24 and just believe it. That’s all you have to do.
For the rest of this section, I will explain why hard determinism is an archaic, and foolish understanding of freewill, and God’s relationship to time.
Calvinists operate under a flawed and unsupported understanding of the nature of time. Nobody really knows what time is or how it works. We can measure the passing of time, but even the measure of time changes with respect to physical forces, like gravity. Relativity theory suggests that time itself dilates as a function of velocity. Some scientists believe that space and time are inextricably linked. Some B-theorists of time think that the flow of time is an illusion and that past, present, and future events all exist simultaneously. And that the universe could be some 4-dimensional block of space-time. A-theory of time is more of a traditionalist view of time, where temporal becoming is real. Whatever the reality is, the point is that nobody really knows what time is.
And there is nothing in scripture that can give you grounds to make any hard or fast assumptions on the nature of time. Calvinism requires a fated\deterministic understanding of time. This assumption cannot be substantiated by science, nor by scripture. Instead of allowing the gospel and sound science\logic to determine our notion of freewill and time, Calvinism just alleges hard determinism (for no good reason). And they pervert the gospel to reflect this archaic, linear notion of time. They do this, because they think it is wise, and deep, and that it is the “meat of the word.”
Calvinists love to claim that their belief is correct, that it is scriptural, and that their cult is completely biblical. Yet they scream “Sovereign! Sovereign!” A word that is not found at all in the Bible. What’s funny is that famous Calvinistic debaters are quoted as saying, “freewill is not found anywhere in the Bible… anywhere!” (They tend to shift their eyes from side to side as they say this, hoping that nobody does a simple Google search to falsify their claim). Because Freewill is in the Bible, and the word they love, “sovereign” is not.
Deuteronomy 16
10 And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee
There’s a bunch of other quotes (16 more) all of which refer to a freewill offering to God. Jesus Christ is the freewill offering that we give to God. Faith in Jesus Christ is the freewill offering. Just like Abel’s freewill offering in Genesis, which is a shadow of Christ.
Any time you hear the word “sovereign,” that is a dead giveaway that you are about to hear a bunch of Calvinistic flimflamming.
And in keeping with Calvinism’s abuse of language, sovereignty really means “meticulous control” to Calvinists. They think that God is in control of literally everything. They think that they are doing God service by holding fast to the idea that God literally ordains and controls every event that has ever happened. Including sin! This from Calvin’s institutes:
John Calvin: “For the man who honestly and soberly reflects on these things, there can be no doubt that the will of God is the chief and principal cause of all things.” (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, pg.177)
John Calvin: “Hence we maintain, that by his providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined. What, then, you will say, does nothing happen fortuitously, nothing contingently? I answer, it was a true saying of Basil the Great, that Fortune and Chance are heathen terms; the meaning of which ought not to occupy pious minds. For if all success is blessing from God, and calamity and adversity are his curse, there is no place left in human affairs for fortune and chance.” (The World, Created by God, Still Cherished and Protected by Him. Each and All of Its Parts Governed by His Providence, pg.180)
What does God have to say on this matter?
Ecclesiastes 9
11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.
I guess you would have to call God a heathen for allowing the word “chance” to enter into his mind. I guess God isn’t as pious as John Calvin, allowing such a thing to be written in the Bible. Oh, wait… according to Calvin, God decreed by his providence that this word should be in his Bible. I guess God likes to shoot himself in the foot, from time to time…It’s clear that Calvin didn’t give a damn about truth, nor the Bible. It is clear that he did not read the Bible. He just twisted the Bible. Because if he had read the Bible, he would not have made a fool of himself, by saying that “chance” is not a word that God would use, when it is used in the Bible. Calvin is a dumb, illiterate fool.
If only Calvin had the foreknowledge (see what I did there?) to know that search engines would exist in the future. Because if he had, he would have been careful not to say something as stupid as, “chance is a heathen term.” Because his whole theology is shut down by a simple 5 second word search in the Bible.
Calvin also thinks that God does not merely allow for sin, but rather that he dreams it up and decrees it.
John Calvin: “But it is quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing but the author of them.” (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, pg.176)
John Calvin: “We also note that we should consider the creation of the world so that we may realize that everything is subject to God and ruled by his will and that when the world has done what it may, nothing happens other than what God decrees.” (Acts: Calvin, The Crossway Classic Commentaries, pg.66)
The reality is that God decided to create moral agents, free creatures that can choose to do A or B. God, in his omniscience, knew all these things would be, yet decided to create anyways. Clearly, God thought it a worthwhile cause. God created the world, because he is good and wants to create creatures that would freely love him back.
You don’t have to subscribe to any kind of notion of time, or God’s relationship to time. Because those things are beyond us. God condescended knowledge of himself and presented himself in a manner that we can understand. He tells us to believe. Therefore, believe! Do not come with a list of excuses like, “I can’t believe, unless I am preordained!” or “can a dead body believe?!” or “only the sovereignty of god, can make me believe!” These are just foolish claims to wisdom that man does not have. This is exactly what the parable of God’s wedding is about:
Luke 14
16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
They all made all kinds of excuses. And this parable is not about excuses to get out of doing work. No, they were not asked to do work. They were asked to have dinner. But they all made lousy, stupid excuses. That is Calvinism. If you want to attend Christ’s supper, you have to believe. If you think that God forced you to believe, then that is your excuse. You will not taste of his supper.
This parable speaks expressly against Calvinism, because God is trying to compel the poor, the blind, the halt, the people in the highways and hedges, everyone to come. God bids everyone to come. Calvinism claims that God has not bid everyone, but unconditionally bids only his sheep to come.
Calvinism is such a blind cult. People of Calvin are enemies of Christ. They are antichrist. Still, God says, “All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people” (Romans 10:21). Calvinist, you are blind. God bids the blind. Therefore, repent from your devil Calvin, and believe in Jesus Christ. While there is time in your life, while you are alive. 1 John 2:2
Anyways, I am done disemboweling the U in TULIP. Unconditional election. I hope you can see that this is yet another point that is not founded on scripture. It is completely heretical and fallacious. It is built on a bunch of false assumptions, which God hath before warned us about. Do not be a Calvinist. Do not build your house on sand.
Johann
Well-known member
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes it is the Gospel so you have been deceived friend
Obadiah
Well-known member
Wrong and here is the proof. Read it and weep. Just a start.
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints
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