Refuting effectually caused faith

[brightfame52]

All evangelical obedience such as faith and repentance are caused as they ar New Covenant Blessings, promises to be given on virtue of the fact Christ shed His Covenant Blood to secure them and is Now New Covenant Mediator to ensure they are given,

Heb 8 :6,10

6 But now hath he[Jesus Christ] obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do[obey] them.

 

[synergy]

Man by nature doesnt have the ability to believe in Jesus Jn 6:44,65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Those wonderful verses plus John 12:32 prove that calvinists are Universalists.

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32).

Thank you for your assistance in exposing the heresy of calvinism. Keep up the good work.

 

[synergy]

Heb 8 :6,10

6 But now hath he[Jesus Christ] obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do[obey] them.

Thank you for forwarding all those verses that prove that regeneration (a new heart, my spirit within you) was a future event for all OT Believers. That fact utterly destroys the calvanist heresy that regeneration always happens before belief. Keep up the good work!

 

[brightfame52]

Those wonderful verses plus John 12:32 prove that calvinists are Universalists.

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32).

Thank you for your assistance in exposing the heresy of calvinism. Keep up the good work.

Man by nature doesnt have the ability to believe in Jesus Jn 6:44,65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

[brightfame52]

Thank you for forwarding all those verses that prove that regeneration (a new heart, my spirit within you) was a future event for all OT Believers. That fact utterly destroys the calvanist heresy that regeneration always happens before belief. Keep up the good work!

The New Covenant confirmed by the Blood of Christ, and the Mediator of the Covenant, Christ Himself, ensures Faith is given also with a New Heart and obedience is caused

 

[Bob Carabbio]

No

Calvinism holds man is not able to believe unless God effectually causes him to believe

It's called "Holy Spirit CONVICTION of SIN"- the source of FAITH - God's WORD to you (Rom 1-:17). Calvin got this one right.

 

[brightfame52]

It's called "Holy Spirit CONVICTION of SIN"- the source of FAITH - God's WORD to you (Rom 1-:17). Calvin got this one right.

The New Birth by the Spirit is the source of faith that pleases God since man by nature is dead in sin and a enemy to God.

 

[synergy]

The New Covenant confirmed by the Blood of Christ, and the Mediator of the Covenant, Christ Himself, ensures Faith is given also with a New Heart and obedience is caused

We already established, with your help of course, that regeneration (a new heart, my spirit within you) was a future event for all OT Believers. That fact utterly destroys the calvanist heresy that regeneration always happens before belief. I just can't thank you enough. Keep up the good work!

Also with your help and with John 12:32 we established and proved that calvinists are Universalists.

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32).

Thank you for your continued assistance in exposing the many heresies of calvinism. Keep up the good work!

 

[brightfame52]

We already established, with your help of course, that regeneration (a new heart, my spirit within you) was a future event for all OT Believers. That fact utterly destroys the calvanist heresy that regeneration always happens before belief. I just can't thank you enough. Keep up the good work!

Also with your help and with John 12:32 we established and proved that calvinists are Universalists.

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32).

Thank you for your continued assistance in exposing the many heresies of calvinism. Keep up the good work!

Okay then man cant believe in Christ with his so called freewill Jn 6:65

65 ;And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

[synergy]

Okay then man cant believe in Christ with his so called freewill Jn 6:65

65 ;And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

With John 12:32 we are once again establishing and proving that calvinists are Universalists.

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32).

Thank you again for your continued assistance in exposing the many heresies of calvinism. Keep up the good work!

 

[TomL]

It's called "Holy Spirit CONVICTION of SIN"- the source of FAITH - God's WORD to you (Rom 1-:17). Calvin got this one right.

Conviction does not ensure ones conversion at that time, and it is not irresistible, as you know.

Calvin got it wrong.

 

[brightfame52]

With John 12:32 we are once again establishing and proving that calvinists are Universalists.

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32).

Thank you again for your continued assistance in exposing the many heresies of calvinism. Keep up the good work!

Okay then man cant believe in Christ with his so called freewill Jn 6:65

65 ;And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

The all men being drawn are the elect, the word draw is probably from or related to the greek word αἱρέω (G138) which means:

1. to take for oneself, to prefer, choose
2. to choose by vote, elect to office

God draws the elect by the inward power of the Spirit of sanctification/regeneration 2 Tess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen αἱρέω you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Its the Spirit impelling the elect inwardly helkō:

1. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

The drawing is an inward work of God to the chosen children of God

 

[Horatius]

The message of the gospel, focused on Christ's death and resurrection, is one that "calls" to all people
Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:35; 40

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
John 12:32
This verse from the John shows us Jesus’ mission and the universal invitation to salvation through his sacrificial death on the cross.

It emphasizes God’s inclusive love for all people and calls believers to proclaim this message to the world.

Unfortunately, not all will respond.

 

[brightfame52]

@Horatius

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
John 12:32
This verse from the John shows us Jesus’ mission and the universal invitation to salvation through his sacrificial death on the cross.

Nothing here friend about an invitation in Jn 12:32 its a statement declaring a fact on the power of Christof bring men to believe upon Him

 

[Burdock]

Jesus does not make people believe in Him and the gift of salvation. It's and "invitation to salvation" that can be rejected because we have freewill. He does not drag us kicking and screaming to the cross.

 

[synergy]

God draws the elect by the inward power of the Spirit of sanctification/regeneration 2 Tess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen αἱρέω you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Its the Spirit impelling the elect inwardly helkō:

1. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

The drawing is an inward work of God to the chosen children of God

Again, John 12:32 says that Christ draws all so your claims above along with John 12:32 proves once again that calvinists are Universalists.

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32).

Thank you again for your continued assistance in exposing the many heresies of calvinism. Keep up the good work!

 

[civic]

Again, John 12:32 says that Christ draws all so your claims above along with John 12:32 proves once again that calvinists are Universalists.

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32).

Thank you again for your continued assistance in exposing the many heresies of calvinism. Keep up the good work!

amazing how the john 12 passage gets ignored when its the same word used in john 6. they don't understand the before and after and the 2 distinct groups in both passages- one before the death and resurrection and the group after His death and resurrection. they are trapped in their own doctrine

 

[MTMattie]

Man by nature doesnt have the ability to believe in Jesus Jn 6:44,65

Then why do I?

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

So, is it that the Father draws the man to Jesus so that he continues right through Jesus to the Father?

So we have the Father drawing to Jesus and we have the man going to the Father through Jesus.

@brightfame52 .... .... thank you , thank you thank you..... I knew you could do it and you did.

Ladies and Gentlemen... sure looks like Jesus and the Father are one, especially if the man is drawn by the Father to the Son and it is through the Son that the man comes to the Father.

I am so giddy with joy over this obviouse truth from the bible.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Yes, sirree. For by our faith we are saved. “Salvation by Faith Alone.” We are justified by faith in Christ alone."
Sola Fide......................................................................................

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

And I did as a child. I knew that Jesus was the way. Long before I every heard any thing about a new birth ....

It's so exciting, @brightfame52 .

And you want to know how I know @brightfame52 ?

Because the Holy Spirit has me literally jumping out of my skin in joy for seeing what you have shown us all.

Thank you, and blessings.

 

[TomL]

Okay then man cant believe in Christ with his so called freewill Jn 6:65

65 ;And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

So how did these believe?

Luke 8:13 (NASB95) — 13 “Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

and why did God need to harden these so they would not believe

John 12:39–40 (NASB95) — 39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.”

 

[brightfame52]

Again, John 12:32 says that Christ draws all so your claims above along with John 12:32 proves once again that calvinists are Universalists.

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32).

Thank you again for your continued assistance in exposing the many heresies of calvinism. Keep up the good work!

Okay then man cant believe in Christ with his so called freewill Jn 6:65

65 ;And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

The all men being drawn are the elect, the word draw is probably from or related to the greek word αἱρέω (G138) which means:

1. to take for oneself, to prefer, choose
2. to choose by vote, elect to office

God draws the elect by the inward power of the Spirit of sanctification/regeneration 2 Tess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen αἱρέω you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Its the Spirit impelling the elect inwardly helkō:

1. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

The drawing is an inward work of God to the chosen children of God