brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes, because the person is passive when its given, when the believing is given Phil 1:29 the word given is in the passive voice
Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
My Bible Word StudyIts given, the word given in Phil 1:29 is the greek word charizomai :
Its passive voice so the one its given is being acted upon
and the word means:
- to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify
- to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent
- to grant forgiveness, to pardon
- to give graciously, give freely, bestow
- to forgive
- graciously to restore one to another
- to preserve for one a person in peril
The lexicon for this verse uses #3
c. to give graciously, give freely, bestow: τίνι τί, Luke 7:21; Romans 8:32; Philippians 2:9; passive, 1 Corinthians 2:12; Philippians 1:29
Also charizomai is from the word and made of charis which is translated Grace 130x in the NT including Acts 18:27
And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Also one of the strong synonyms for bestow is impart:
Strong matches
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Lemma
χαρίζομαι charizomai forgive; show favor; give freely; show kindness
LXGNTLEX forgive; show favor; give freely
LXLXXLEX show kindness; give freely
God showed favor in sending Paul to the Phillipians so they might believe
It does not mean to infuse faith
It does indicate they were shown favor which resulted in their believe
What was given was the preaching of the gospel and not an infusion of faith
brightfame52
Well-known member
False, to believe on Christ was given
brightfame52
Well-known member
I gave you my study, which shows you to be in grave error
DavidTree
Well-known member
I would not classify/define God's work in us as a vacuum as you described.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Greetings with a kiss = Romans 16:16
Keep
It
Simple
Saint
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God
Nor would I
It is however the Calvinist view.
Which is my point and what it requires in their interpretation of Eph 2:8.
atpollard
Well-known member
Romans 1, at the end of the chapter, God repeatedly “gave them up” or “gave them over” to ever greater sins. Yet the section begins with a statement about the wrath of God being revealed against men that suppress the truth.
If God progressively gives men over to follow their desires for sin, does that not imply that God was restraining those sinful desires before God “gave them up” to follow those desires? How can God give them up if God is not holding them back?
Yet it states in the beginning that they already suppressed the truth, so by your logic there should have been no need for God to give them up to anything? You have discovered the problem of the excluded middle. You assume that there are no shades to anything. One cannot be incapable of choosing to draw near to God without already being as bad as one can be. Sin does not require one to be a sociopath, it merely requires one to “miss the mark” … to be incapable of THINKING as God thinks (so His ways are foolish to us) … of resisting the temptations of the flesh (anger and lust) … of resisting submission by retaining some control of your fate (creating a god shaped idol).
In the parable of the sower, there were many soils in which the seed would never thrive. Not all were a hard path that at a would snatch the seed before it could take root. Only one soil, the GOOD SOIL, had been cleared and prepared by the farmer to allow the seed to produce a harvest. God promises to remove a heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh … that is the framer breaking the path, clearing the rocks, burning the weeds and plowing the Good Soil to make it ready for the seed.
Yes it does and I never stated otherwise
This does not seem to follow
God normally strives with man to bring about needed reformation and he continues to do so up to a certain point. At that point God simply stops his efforts at restraining man
It is difficult to see how this aligns with the issue I raised.
However, If one asserts that a person cannot believe unless God unilaterally enables it, then the biblical fact that God actively hardened individuals so they could not believe seems entirely contradictory to that premise.
I have made no such assumption. I simply addressed a Calvinist position and asked them to justify it as scripture indicates a fact which appears contrary to it.
I never argued any such thing
Once again, I was simply asking Calvinists to justify their belief that man has no inherent ability to believe God and that God must unilaterally effect any such belief.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Must See the Son to Believe on Him !
Jn 6:40
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jesus once said Jn 9:39
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Man who is spiritually blind by nature, cannot See Christ to Believe on Him, utterly impossible. Jesus associates believing with seeing here Jn 12:39-40
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
We believe however that the Spirit of God, in New Birth, or Regeneration opens up the Spiritual Eyes of New Born babes, and by that they are able to Spiritually See the Things of God, and most importantly See the Son of God who gave Himself for them, they See Him in the Gospel, and So it is written Jn 6:40
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
We believe the Seeing of the Son is the effects of the Spirit and Grace of God, for we do read in scripture this Zech 12:10
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
We believe this is a Look of Faith, a Seeing the Son, after the pouring of the Spirit upon them !
The word Look here is the Hebrew word nabat and means:
I.to look, regard ,ii.to regard, show regard to, pay attention to, consider
And it is the equivalent to the word Seeth in Jn 6:40, which is the greek word theōreō and means:
I.to be a spectator, look at, behold
A.
to view attentively, take a view of, survey
i.to view mentally, consider
The Spirit will give us to focus in on the Person and Work of Christ, Just as Jesus indicated He would do Jn 16:14
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
This is Part of the Spirit's Role in the Salvation of the Elect through Jesus Christ, and why Faith in Christ is His Fruit Gal 5:22
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Jn 6:40
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jesus once said Jn 9:39
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Man who is spiritually blind by nature, cannot See Christ to Believe on Him, utterly impossible. Jesus associates believing with seeing here Jn 12:39-40
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
We believe however that the Spirit of God, in New Birth, or Regeneration opens up the Spiritual Eyes of New Born babes, and by that they are able to Spiritually See the Things of God, and most importantly See the Son of God who gave Himself for them, they See Him in the Gospel, and So it is written Jn 6:40
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
We believe the Seeing of the Son is the effects of the Spirit and Grace of God, for we do read in scripture this Zech 12:10
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
We believe this is a Look of Faith, a Seeing the Son, after the pouring of the Spirit upon them !
The word Look here is the Hebrew word nabat and means:
I.to look, regard ,ii.to regard, show regard to, pay attention to, consider
And it is the equivalent to the word Seeth in Jn 6:40, which is the greek word theōreō and means:
I.to be a spectator, look at, behold
A.
to view attentively, take a view of, survey
i.to view mentally, consider
The Spirit will give us to focus in on the Person and Work of Christ, Just as Jesus indicated He would do Jn 16:14
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
This is Part of the Spirit's Role in the Salvation of the Elect through Jesus Christ, and why Faith in Christ is His Fruit Gal 5:22
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Rowan
Active member
When Christians witness sinners see Jesus in them.
Do you remember when you heard the gospel? Who told you? How did they tell you? Did they first share Christ with you through their words or did you first notice Christ working in them through their actions? Just think, if that person never stood before you as a witness for Christ, you may not have ever heard of this wonderful good news of the gospel and been brought into a relationship with God!
“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” Acts 1:8
“For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” Romans 10:13-15
The credibility of our witness will be shown in how we live our lives. And the change in us from before on new life in Christ.
Philippians 2:15 “That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.”
The effective Christian witness will live a life above reproach in the power of the Holy Spirit, whose fruit we exhibit when we remain in Christ.
Do you remember when you heard the gospel? Who told you? How did they tell you? Did they first share Christ with you through their words or did you first notice Christ working in them through their actions? Just think, if that person never stood before you as a witness for Christ, you may not have ever heard of this wonderful good news of the gospel and been brought into a relationship with God!
“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” Acts 1:8
“For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” Romans 10:13-15
The credibility of our witness will be shown in how we live our lives. And the change in us from before on new life in Christ.
Philippians 2:15 “That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.”
The effective Christian witness will live a life above reproach in the power of the Holy Spirit, whose fruit we exhibit when we remain in Christ.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Let's explore that.
(Rom 10:17) So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Where is your calvinist regeneration in Rom 10:17? No where.
Next:
(Rom 10:9) that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
The words confess and believe are active verbs done by the person himself. Again, where is your calvinist regeneration in that verse? No where.
Carry on with your calvinist fairy tales. They're amusing.
Rowan
Active member
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." Mark 2:17
Jesus chose to eat with sinners because they needed to know that repentance and forgiveness were available. As Jesus’ ministry grew, so did His popularity among the social outcasts of society. Once Matthew was part of His inner circle, Jesus naturally had more contact with the pariahs of His society. Spending time with the tax collectors and sinners was only natural, since He had “not come to call the righteous, but sinners”.
If Jesus was to reach the lost, He must have some contact with them. He went to where the need was because “it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick”
Jesus did not come to "call" righteous people, but rather sinful people, just as healthy people do not typically seek out a doctor.
civic
Well-known member
yepLet's explore that.
(Rom 10:17) So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Where is your calvinist regeneration in Rom 10:17? No where.
Next:
(Rom 10:9) that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
The words confess and believe are active verbs done by the person himself. Again, where is your calvinist regeneration in that verse? No where.
Carry on with your calvinist fairy tales. They're amusing.
The Bible doesn't stop there. Read John 12:32.
“And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32)
Key Point: Jesus' crucifixion initiates a universal call. That makes you a Universalist.
Tell us more about your calvinist fairy tales. They're amusing.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Explored, and Faith in Christ was givenLet's explore that.
(Rom 10:17) So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Where is your calvinist regeneration in Rom 10:17? No where.
Next:
(Rom 10:9) that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
The words confess and believe are active verbs done by the person himself. Again, where is your calvinist regeneration in that verse? No where.
Carry on with your calvinist fairy tales. They're amusing.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Jesus was one the most hated people this world ever had, you want to be like Jesus ?
brightfame52
Well-known member
Nothing changed, still:The Bible doesn't stop there. Read John 12:32.
“And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself.” (John 12:32)
Key Point: Jesus' crucifixion initiates a universal call. That makes you a Universalist.
Tell us more about your calvinist fairy tales. They're amusing.
Man by nature doesnt have the ability to believe in Jesus Jn 6:65
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Rowan
Active member
You bet, I'm becoming like Him everyday.
[“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.” (2 Corinthians 3:17–18)]
Notice how what the Holy Spirit enables for us is not just knowing about Jesus but beholding or seeing Jesus. It is the same word you would get for looking into a mirror in the morning. Likewise, the Holy Spirit helps us indirectly see Jesus through His power.
As we see Jesus, we become like Him. Notice how in Paul’s sentence the contemplating is the thing that happens as we are transformed. To become like Jesus, the only thing we need is to encounter Him, to experience Jesus as He is.
