Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Rockson
Well-known member
It's just stunning that any Calvinsit is brave enough to even venture out to even try to reconcile what the Prodigal Son parable is clearly saying to us. Everything about it goes totally contrary to Calvinistic theology.
1) The Son chooses to leave home.
2) The Father obviously didn't want him to do so which shows the will of God is not always being done.
3) The Son leaves and lives independently from the Father (God)
4) The Father never went out to drag him back which is what Calvinist teach about irresistible force (they call grace)
5) The Son only comes back ONLY when he chooses to not through anything the Father has ordained.
Did you just ignore scripture
The unregenerate, dead in sin man can repent of his sin and love God
Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (ESV) — 11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you today, by loving the LORD your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, 20 loving the LORD your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”
Isaiah 55:7 (ESV) — 7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
showing you have an authority other than scripture
civic
Well-known member
Amen
Scripture is not the Calvinists authority
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes it does, for dead people dont raise themselves from the dead. The parable is signifying the power of Christ and His Grace Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Its the same greek word nekros in Lk 15 24,32
Parables are designed to signify something of the Person and Work of Christ and its success. But you dont understand it, you want to exalt man in salvation, not good
brightfame52
Well-known member
The boy , son was dead ! Do dead people raise themselves up to life ?
You left off verses 8 it was through faith
Ephesians 2:5–8 (NASB 2020) — 5 even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Apparently the dead can believe and be made alive
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes it does, for dead people dont raise themselves from the dead. The parable is signifying the power of Christ and His Grace Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Its the same greek word nekros in Lk 15 24,32
Parables are designed to signify something of the Person and Work of Christ and its success. But you dont understand it, you want to exalt man in salvation, not good
L.A.M.B.
Active member
John 8:30-32
30 As HE spake these words, many BELIEVED on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in MY WORD, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the TRUTH shall make you free.
John 17:15-17
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through the TRUTH: THY WORD IS TRUTH.
ANY man made doctrines are AGAINST the truth of God & his word, be it Calvin, Smith, Mohammed, Russell, Eddy-Baker, Armstrong ect ect.....
30 As HE spake these words, many BELIEVED on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in MY WORD, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the TRUTH shall make you free.
John 17:15-17
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through the TRUTH: THY WORD IS TRUTH.
ANY man made doctrines are AGAINST the truth of God & his word, be it Calvin, Smith, Mohammed, Russell, Eddy-Baker, Armstrong ect ect.....
L.A.M.B.
Active member
Lol, correct.
IT IS A TACTIC TO DIVERT from truth by asking questions and to make the one with the truth appear ignorant!
Seems some are willfully blind and do not want the truth!
Sorry Calvinist mantras are not a substitute for scripture
Ephesians 2:5–8 (NASB 2020) — 5 even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Apparently the dead can believe and be made alive
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
and there is no parable here
civic
Well-known member
Amen
The dead son came to his senses and returned to the Father
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes it does, for dead people dont raise themselves from the dead. The parable is signifying the power of Christ and His Grace Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Its the same greek word nekros in Lk 15 24,32
Parables are designed to signify something of the Person and Work of Christ and its success. But you dont understand it, you want to exalt man in salvation, not good
Saved through faith
Faith precedes being saved
Being made alive is being saved
Faith precedes being made alive
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes it does, for dead people dont raise themselves from the dead. The parable is signifying the power of Christ and His Grace Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Its the same greek word nekros in Lk 15 24,32
Parables are designed to signify something of the Person and Work of Christ and its success. But you dont understand it, you want to exalt man in salvation, not good
Faith is given after having been saved by grace from death in sin
Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Then afterwards Faith is given to believe Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Saved through faith
Faith precedes being saved
Being made alive is being saved (you ignore this in verse 5)
Faith precedes being made alive
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
you failed to address this argument
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes it does, for dead people dont raise themselves from the dead. The parable is signifying the power of Christ and His Grace Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Its the same greek word nekros in Lk 15 24,32
Parables are designed to signify something of the Person and Work of Christ and its success. But you dont understand it, you want to exalt man in salvation, not good
Faith is given after having been saved by grace from death in sin
Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Then afterwards Faith is given to believe Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Faith is given after one has been saved by Grace Eph 2:5
And that Faith isnt the dead sinner's faith
You failed to deal with this
Saved through faith
Faith precedes being saved
Being made alive is being saved (you ignore this in verse 5)
Faith precedes being made alive
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
you failed to address this argument
