Praying to Jesus

[Studyman]

another fallacious post.

No Jesus claimed equality with God and the Jews knew it and condemned Him for that very claim.

Yes, my Lord and Savior, the Jesus "of the Bible" says;

John 10: 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

And truly the religions of this world hate the Father and His Son, the Jesus "of the Bible". But this world's merchants love the "image of God you are promoting, along with the high days you created in worship of this image. It's big, big business, but you already know that.

John 10: 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The Jesus "of the Bible", my Lord, is at His Father's right hand even now, advocating between me and His Father, and for that I am forever grateful.

And because I believe and promote these undeniable truths, you label me an anti-Christ and reprobate. Jesus said you were coming Civic, and he told me what you would do, even before we met.

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, "ye would rejoice", because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

And HE is my Perfect Example, the "Author and Finisher" of my Faith. You can try and turn me away from this Jesus, and towards the image of God you have adopted and are now promoting, but will not turn my back on Him, just so you will stop calling me names.

Phil. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

This man Jesus, the Jesus "of the Bible", became "Perfect, even as His Father in Heaven is Perfect". And HE invites me to embark on the same journey. And I have put my hands to the plow.

9 Wherefore (Because of this) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ (of the Bible) is Lord, to the "glory of God" the Father.

Creating images of God in like likeness of some random men's hair shampoo model, is certainly NOT "to the Glory of God" the Father.

Also Paul declares He has equality with God in Phil 2.

Yes, as I have always said and believe "It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord."

The Jesus "of the bible" was a Servant to His Father and my Father. Your Jesus was not. It is the Jesus "of the Bible" that I confess is my Lord. Not your long-haired men's hair shampoo model.

You really dislike the Son, even hate ( love less ) Him. You rob Him , devalue Him of His honor, praise, worship, prayer that the disciples, those He healed gave Him and all creation in heaven gives Him now a per Rev 5:11-14.

I think you are confusing the image of God that you have adopted and are selling to others through your religious business, who you call Jesus, with the actual Christ "of the Bible" who became a mortal human and overcame temptation through humble Faith and obedience to His Father.

I can't think of a more disrespectful, hateful and dishonoring way to treat the Jesus "of the Bible", than to preach to the world that HE overcame sin and temptation because when the going got tough, as it does for all men, HE just kicked in God powers no human ever had access to. And to preach to the world that Jesus "couldn't sin" because HE was Immortal God. That HE couldn't die, because HE was Immortal God.

Such a teaching makes His Journey on Earth a sham, a deception. It teaches Jesus risked nothing, laid down His Life for no one. And worse, it implies that God His Father was in on the scam by giving Him so great an honor and Glory, for simply doing what God does every day since before this world was even created.

You should be ashamed, but as Prophesied, you are not.

If you do not do that on this side of heaven there will be no opportunity for you to on the other side. The testing ground is here and now.

Finally, some truth.

hope this helps !!!

Adopting and then promoting to others the philosophies and doctrines of the gods of this world God placed us in, doesn't "help" anyone Civic.

 

[civic]

Yes, my Lord and Savior, the Jesus "of the Bible" says;

John 10: 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

And truly the religions of this world hate the Father and His Son, the Jesus "of the Bible". But this world's merchants love the "image of God you are promoting, along with the high days you created in worship of this image. It's big, big business, but you already know that.

John 10: 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The Jesus "of the Bible", my Lord, is at His Father's right hand even now, advocating between me and His Father, and for that I am forever grateful.

And because I believe and promote these undeniable truths, you label me an anti-Christ and reprobate. Jesus said you were coming Civic, and he told me what you would do, even before we met.

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, "ye would rejoice", because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

And HE is my Perfect Example, the "Author and Finisher" of my Faith. You can try and turn me away from this Jesus, and towards the image of God you have adopted and are now promoting, but will not turn my back on Him, just so you will stop calling me names.

Phil. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

This man Jesus, the Jesus "of the Bible", became "Perfect, even as His Father in Heaven is Perfect". And HE invites me to embark on the same journey. And I have put my hands to the plow.

9 Wherefore (Because of this) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ (of the Bible) is Lord, to the "glory of God" the Father.

Creating images of God in like likeness of some random men's hair shampoo model, is certainly NOT "to the Glory of God" the Father.



Yes, as I have always said and believe "It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord."

The Jesus "of the bible" was a Servant to His Father and my Father. Your Jesus was not. It is the Jesus "of the Bible" that I confess is my Lord. Not your long-haired men's hair shampoo model.



I think you are confusing the image of God that you have adopted and are selling to others through your religious business, who you call Jesus, with the actual Christ "of the Bible" who became a mortal human and overcame temptation through humble Faith and obedience to His Father.

I can't think of a more disrespectful, hateful and dishonoring way to treat the Jesus "of the Bible", than to preach to the world that HE overcame sin and temptation because when the going got tough, as it does for all men, HE just kicked in God powers no human ever had access to. And to preach to the world that Jesus "couldn't sin" because HE was Immortal God. That HE couldn't die, because HE was Immortal God.

Such a teaching makes His Journey on Earth a sham, a deception. It teaches Jesus risked nothing, laid down His Life for no one. And worse, it implies that God His Father was in on the scam by giving Him so great an honor and Glory, for simply doing what God does every day since before this world was even created.

You should be ashamed, but as Prophesied, you are not.




Finally, some truth.



Adopting and then promoting to others the philosophies and doctrines of the gods of this world God placed us in, doesn't "help" anyone Civic.

Jesus claims to the Jews

Here is where the false teachers have there problems and it is from a very basic principle in bible hermeneutics and exegesis. What did this passage mean to those who heard it? Lets examine just a couple of claims Jesus made and see what those heard Jesus speak say what He meant by those words.

The Jews heard Him say in John 8 and John 10 that I and the Father are One and before Abraham was born I Am. In each of those encounters the immediate reaction of the Jews who knew the OT better than anyone here was to stone Jesus for blasphemy for you being a man make yourself out to be God. They knew very well that He claimed not only equality with God but claimed to be God Himself. Jesus said and did things that only God could say and do. He raised the dead because He had power over death and the grave. He forgave sin that was only God 's prerogative. He had miraculous power over nature. He was the Lord of the Sabbath. The list could go on and on but the point has been clearly made. Jesus was no mere man but God incarnate. Without believing in the incarnation one has no Savior for there sin. This is why Jesus uttered the word unless you believe I Am(YHWH) you will die in your sins. The choice is yours, is Jesus just a man or is He Immanuel "God with us"?



John 5:17-18
"My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." 18 For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 8:56-59
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57 The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.

John 10:29-34
"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."



hope this helps !!!

 

[David Koberstein]

another fallacious post.

No Jesus claimed equality with God and the Jews knew it and condemned Him for that very claim. Also Paul declares He has equality with God in Phil 2.

You really dislike the Son, even hate ( love less ) Him. You rob Him , devalue Him of His honor, praise, worship, prayer that the disciples, those He healed gave Him and all creation in heaven gives Him now a per Rev 5:11-14.

If you do not do that on this side of heaven there will be no opportunity for you to on the other side. The testing ground is here and now.

hope this helps !!!

Very well said Civic!!

 

[Studyman]

Jesus claims to the Jews

Here is where the false teachers have there problems and it is from a very basic principle in bible hermeneutics and exegesis. What did this passage mean to those who heard it? Lets examine just a couple of claims Jesus made and see what those heard Jesus speak say what He meant by those words.

This entire exercise is done by you to justify your adopted religion and has nothing to do with seeking God's Truth through the Word's God gave to HIS Son Jesus, to give to us. You guys make up words and labels to separate and divide and then catalogue this world's religions into groups. And like the Calvinists, you believe "your adopted religious group" is the one true way, while everyone who doesn't bow down to your hermeneutics and exegesis is deceived.

I don't know yet if your do this on purpose to deceive, or if you are ignorant and blind. So I am willing to engage again with you, to see if you are searching for truth, or just justification.

The Jews heard Him say in John 8 and John 10 that I and the Father are One and before Abraham was born I Am.

Not all Jews who saw Him or heard of Him, rejected Him. Zacharias knew who HE was, before HE was even born. Simeon knew and understood who HE was at 8 days old. The Wise men too. They were all waiting for Him to come. So who was it that was ready to stone the man Jesus, simply because HE told them that HE was the One Prophesied by Moses and the Prophets, in whom they claimed to trust? Did Nathaniel in John 1, attempt to stone Him for saying the same thing?

In each of those encounters the immediate reaction of the Jews who knew the OT better than anyone here was to stone Jesus for blasphemy for you being a man make yourself out to be God.

Again, this is a huge lie, that if you would only hear Moses and the Prophets you would know. If you would only believe the Words of the same Christ you claim to love, you wouldn't make this false statement. According to Paul, these men were "Ignorant" of God's Righteousness. They had the Oracles of God, but didn't believe them. They were given the Laws of God by the disposition of Angels, and the refused to walk in them. The Entire Law and Prophets describes a religious body who professed to know God, but by their "works" denied HIM. They had killed and persecuted the Prophets God had sent them for centuries.

Is. 1: 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. 3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

Mal. 2: 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been "partial in the law".

I could go on and on.

Matt. 3: 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee "from the wrath to come"? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits "meet for repentance":

But the very foundation of this sermon you are preaching to justify your religion, is founded on the LIE that the Jews who wanted to stone Him "knew the OT better than anyone". Clearly Zacharias knew the OT better, Simeon as well. But the entire Bible talks about rebellious Jews being Blinded. Even Paul had scales fall off his eyes before he could see the truth.

Rom. 1: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

How can you, a self-proclaimed "preacher", not know these things, but a nobody you call an anti-Christ, and hater of Jesus like me can?

They knew very well that He claimed not only equality with God but claimed to be God Himself.

No! HE didn't "claim to be God Himself". Not as a mortal man walking the earth. But again, your entire religion is founded on false beliefs. You don't believe The Holy One of Israel, the Rock who fed and watered Israel, became a man in the person of Jesus. You don't believe His Laid down His Immortal life for anyone. You don't believe HE risked His Life at all.

If you were to know the Scriptures, and "believe them", you wouldn't promote this religion you have adopted. Just as the Calvinists would promote their adopted religion. Just as the Jews wouldn't have adopted the religious sect of the Pharisees, like Zacharias, Simeon and Anna didn't adopt their religious philosophies.

Jesus said and did things that only God could say and do. He raised the dead because He had power over death and the grave.

The Jesus "of the Bible" said;

John 5: 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he (The Father) given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him (The Son) authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Elijah was also given the power to raise the dead from the same Father. At least according to Scriptures.

He forgave sin that was only God 's prerogative.

Matt. 9: 6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou (The Father) hast given him (The Son) "power over all flesh", that he should give eternal life "to as many as thou (The Father) hast given him (The Son). 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God,( The Father) and Jesus Christ, (His Son) whom thou (The Father) hast sent.

Because I believe in this God, and this "Jesus", I am labeled by you and "Many" who come in Christ's Name, a reprobate and anti-Christ.

He had miraculous power over nature. He was the Lord of the Sabbath.

Before he became a mortal human, HE created all these things, including the Sabbath of God that HE never broke.

The list could go on and on but the point has been clearly made. Jesus was no mere man but God incarnate.

By preaching to others that Jesus overcame temptation on earth because HE was an immortal God is blasphemy, and Anti-Christ.

And it demeans the effort and Faith HE had in His Father, in order to endure such "contradiction of sinners against himself". I am to keep this in mind, "lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds". For I have not yet resisted unto blood, "striving against sin". But you preach HE resisted nothing, as HE was immortal God who can't even be touched by temptation.

I know you will not be persuaded Civic, to accept the Jesus "of the Bible", the Author and finisher of my Faith, and that you are snared to promote your image of God. Nevertheless, who knows when you might have a change of heart and turn to the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, so that HE might give you to Jesus for perfecting.

Without believing in the incarnation one has no Savior for there sin.

How is believing all that is actually written, excluding me from God, and being given to the His Son, the Lord's Christ? What if it is your image of God that is the false god, and the True Savior is the Jesus "of the bible"?

This is why Jesus uttered the word unless you believe I Am(YHWH) you will die in your sins. The choice is yours, is Jesus just a man or is He Immanuel "God with us"?

The Jesus "of the bible", is my Lord and Savior, and High Priest of God, advocating between me and His Father who sent Him, even to this day. I know you have adopted the popular gods of this world God placed us in, and for a time I was also snared and taken captive by them. But by the Grace of God, I have been freed from this captivity and am being led by the Jesus "of the Bible", on a journey, an Exodus to the promised land, being watered and fed by the Rock of Israel, The Lord's Christ.

Yes, you will try and detour me, and you will call me names, Jesus said you were coming. Nevertheless, I would invite you to take a leap of Faith and consider listening to all the Words of the Christ of the bible, and not just hearing His Words, but becoming a "Doer" of His Sayings.

John 5:17-18
"My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." 18 For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

Yes, as HE Himself Teaches, "The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.
My Lord and Savior served and obeyed His Father. I am instructed by this same Christ to "walk even as HE walked". This will make you angry as well, because you preach God placed impossible Laws on the necks of men who place their trust in Him, and if I am "Striving against transgressing God's Commandments", I am trying to be like God. Truly there is nothing new under the sun.

John 8:56-59
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57 The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.

Yes, like you, they didn't believe the Holy One of Israel came to earth as a man, as Prophesied, because they didn't believe Moses and didn't know the Old Testament Scriptures.

John 10:29-34
"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

Yes, Jesus was perfect, even as His Father in heaven was perfect. And you also refuse to accept the truth about these children of the devil who were liars and murderers, accusing Him. And you do so to justify yourself. But here is what Jesus actually said.

John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom "the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world", Thou blasphemest; "because I said", "I am the Son of God"?

37 If I do not the works "of my Father", believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

You have created "another Jesus" Civic. I was warned about this. I hope you might be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness", that you might "walk" even as the Jesus "of the Bible" walked, as HE himself instructed.

 

[civic]

This entire exercise is done by you to justify your adopted religion and has nothing to do with seeking God's Truth through the Word's God gave to HIS Son Jesus, to give to us. You guys make up words and labels to separate and divide and then catalogue this world's religions into groups. And like the Calvinists, you believe "your adopted religious group" is the one true way, while everyone who doesn't bow down to your hermeneutics and exegesis is deceived.

I don't know yet if your do this on purpose to deceive, or if you are ignorant and blind. So I am willing to engage again with you, to see if you are searching for truth, or just justification.



Not all Jews who saw Him or heard of Him, rejected Him. Zacharias knew who HE was, before HE was even born. Simeon knew and understood who HE was at 8 days old. The Wise men too. They were all waiting for Him to come. So who was it that was ready to stone the man Jesus, simply because HE told them that HE was the One Prophesied by Moses and the Prophets, in whom they claimed to trust? Did Nathaniel in John 1, attempt to stone Him for saying the same thing?


Again, this is a huge lie, that if you would only hear Moses and the Prophets you would know. If you would only believe the Words of the same Christ you claim to love, you wouldn't make this false statement. According to Paul, these men were "Ignorant" of God's Righteousness. They had the Oracles of God, but didn't believe them. They were given the Laws of God by the disposition of Angels, and the refused to walk in them. The Entire Law and Prophets describes a religious body who professed to know God, but by their "works" denied HIM. They had killed and persecuted the Prophets God had sent them for centuries.

Is. 1: 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. 3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

Mal. 2: 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been "partial in the law".

I could go on and on.

Matt. 3: 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee "from the wrath to come"? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits "meet for repentance":

But the very foundation of this sermon you are preaching to justify your religion, is founded on the LIE that the Jews who wanted to stone Him "knew the OT better than anyone". Clearly Zacharias knew the OT better, Simeon as well. But the entire Bible talks about rebellious Jews being Blinded. Even Paul had scales fall off his eyes before he could see the truth.

Rom. 1: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

How can you, a self-proclaimed "preacher", not know these things, but a nobody you call an anti-Christ, and hater of Jesus like me can?



No! HE didn't "claim to be God Himself". Not as a mortal man walking the earth. But again, your entire religion is founded on false beliefs. You don't believe The Holy One of Israel, the Rock who fed and watered Israel, became a man in the person of Jesus. You don't believe His Laid down His Immortal life for anyone. You don't believe HE risked His Life at all.

If you were to know the Scriptures, and "believe them", you wouldn't promote this religion you have adopted. Just as the Calvinists would promote their adopted religion. Just as the Jews wouldn't have adopted the religious sect of the Pharisees, like Zacharias, Simeon and Anna didn't adopt their religious philosophies.



The Jesus "of the Bible" said;

John 5: 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he (The Father) given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him (The Son) authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Elijah was also given the power to raise the dead from the same Father. At least according to Scriptures.



Matt. 9: 6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou (The Father) hast given him (The Son) "power over all flesh", that he should give eternal life "to as many as thou (The Father) hast given him (The Son). 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God,( The Father) and Jesus Christ, (His Son) whom thou (The Father) hast sent.

Because I believe in this God, and this "Jesus", I am labeled by you and "Many" who come in Christ's Name, a reprobate and anti-Christ.


Before he became a mortal human, HE created all these things, including the Sabbath of God that HE never broke.



By preaching to others that Jesus overcame temptation on earth because HE was an immortal God is blasphemy, and Anti-Christ.

And it demeans the effort and Faith HE had in His Father, in order to endure such "contradiction of sinners against himself". I am to keep this in mind, "lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds". For I have not yet resisted unto blood, "striving against sin". But you preach HE resisted nothing, as HE was immortal God who can't even be touched by temptation.

I know you will not be persuaded Civic, to accept the Jesus "of the Bible", the Author and finisher of my Faith, and that you are snared to promote your image of God. Nevertheless, who knows when you might have a change of heart and turn to the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, so that HE might give you to Jesus for perfecting.



How is believing all that is actually written, excluding me from God, and being given to the His Son, the Lord's Christ? What if it is your image of God that is the false god, and the True Savior is the Jesus "of the bible"?



The Jesus "of the bible", is my Lord and Savior, and High Priest of God, advocating between me and His Father who sent Him, even to this day. I know you have adopted the popular gods of this world God placed us in, and for a time I was also snared and taken captive by them. But by the Grace of God, I have been freed from this captivity and am being led by the Jesus "of the Bible", on a journey, an Exodus to the promised land, being watered and fed by the Rock of Israel, The Lord's Christ.

Yes, you will try and detour me, and you will call me names, Jesus said you were coming. Nevertheless, I would invite you to take a leap of Faith and consider listening to all the Words of the Christ of the bible, and not just hearing His Words, but becoming a "Doer" of His Sayings.



Yes, as HE Himself Teaches, "The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.
My Lord and Savior served and obeyed His Father. I am instructed by this same Christ to "walk even as HE walked". This will make you angry as well, because you preach God placed impossible Laws on the necks of men who place their trust in Him, and if I am "Striving against transgressing God's Commandments", I am trying to be like God. Truly there is nothing new under the sun.



Yes, like you, they didn't believe the Holy One of Israel came to earth as a man, as Prophesied, because they didn't believe Moses and didn't know the Old Testament Scriptures.



Yes, Jesus was perfect, even as His Father in heaven was perfect. And you also refuse to accept the truth about these children of the devil who were liars and murderers, accusing Him. And you do so to justify yourself. But here is what Jesus actually said.

John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom "the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world", Thou blasphemest; "because I said", "I am the Son of God"?

37 If I do not the works "of my Father", believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

You have created "another Jesus" Civic. I was warned about this. I hope you might be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness", that you might "walk" even as the Jesus "of the Bible" walked, as HE himself instructed.

Son of God is a declaration of His Deity and son os man most often refers to His humanity but can also be a claim of His Deity.

 

[civic]

These 4 facts/witnesses testify to the Son and His Glory,

1- Jesus testimony about Himself that the O.T.- all the law, prophets and the Psalms are about Him
2- The testimony of the Father- This is My Son listen to Him
3- The Holy Spirits ministry is to Glorify the Son, bear witness to the Son
4- The Sons words are spirit and life

hope this helps !!!

 

[TomL]

Jesus claims to the Jews

Here is where the false teachers have there problems and it is from a very basic principle in bible hermeneutics and exegesis. What did this passage mean to those who heard it? Lets examine just a couple of claims Jesus made and see what those heard Jesus speak say what He meant by those words.

The Jews heard Him say in John 8 and John 10 that I and the Father are One and before Abraham was born I Am. In each of those encounters the immediate reaction of the Jews who knew the OT better than anyone here was to stone Jesus for blasphemy for you being a man make yourself out to be God. They knew very well that He claimed not only equality with God but claimed to be God Himself. Jesus said and did things that only God could say and do. He raised the dead because He had power over death and the grave. He forgave sin that was only God 's prerogative. He had miraculous power over nature. He was the Lord of the Sabbath. The list could go on and on but the point has been clearly made. Jesus was no mere man but God incarnate. Without believing in the incarnation one has no Savior for there sin. This is why Jesus uttered the word unless you believe I Am(YHWH) you will die in your sins. The choice is yours, is Jesus just a man or is He Immanuel "God with us"?



John 5:17-18
"My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." 18 For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 8:56-59
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57 The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.

John 10:29-34
"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."



hope this helps !!!

Clearly the Jews understood Christ claiming to make himself out to be God/equal to God

Making himself equal with God. This shows that, in the view of the Jews, the name Son of God, or that calling God his Father, implied equality with God. The Jews were the best interpreters of their own language, and as Jesus did not deny the correctness of their interpretations, it follows that he meant to be so understood. See John 10:29-38. The interpretation of the Jews was a very natural and just one. He not only said that God was his Father, but he said that he had the same right to work on the Sabbath that God had; that by the same authority, and in the same manner, he could dispense with the obligation of the day. They had now two pretences for seeking to kill him-one for making himself equal with God, which they considered blasphemy, and the other for violating the Sabbath

 

[civic]

Clearly the Jews understood Christ claiming to make himself out to be God/equal to God

Making himself equal with God. This shows that, in the view of the Jews, the name Son of God, or that calling God his Father, implied equality with God. The Jews were the best interpreters of their own language, and as Jesus did not deny the correctness of their interpretations, it follows that he meant to be so understood. See John 10:29-38. The interpretation of the Jews was a very natural and just one. He not only said that God was his Father, but he said that he had the same right to work on the Sabbath that God had; that by the same authority, and in the same manner, he could dispense with the obligation of the day. They had now two pretences for seeking to kill him-one for making himself equal with God, which they considered blasphemy, and the other for violating the Sabbath

yes this is an indisputable fact and a straw man for those who say otherwise.

 

[TomL]

yes this is an indisputable fact and a straw man for those who say otherwise.

There is much scriptural evidence which substantiates Christ's deity.

 

[civic]

There is much scriptural evidence which substantiates Christ's deity.

ditto its overwhelming.

 

[TomL]

The Jesus "of the Bible" teaches that His God and my God is Greater than HE. And HE, my High Priest and Lord, sent to me by His Father, said to me "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name". I understand that this world God placed me in, have created their own gods and I am warned by the Christ, the Rock of Israel who became mortal man, against worshipping them as the masses worship them. I have seen a popular image of God in the likeness of a long haired, very handsome man, created and worshipped by this world's religions. They even created a couple of their own high days in worship of this image. But the Jesus "of the Bible" told me to worship His Father which is a Spirit, and explained how to worship Him, who to pray to and how to pray to Him, and HE warned me about "MANY" who call Him Lord, Lord, but are not "Doers" of His Sayings, and also about "Many" deceivers who come in His Name who would work to turn me away from obedience to His Father and my Father, even as the same spirit tried to turn Him away from obedience to the same Father.

This same Jesus is most certainly an immortal God now, as HE was before coming in the flesh, and has been raised by God and given a body we cannot yet know about, as HE is the first mortal human being to ever be given such a body, or as HE is called in the Holy Scriptures, "The First Fruit" of many. And HE is now standing on the Right hand of His Father, in the Kingdom of His Father, advocating between me and His Father to this very day.

?????????????

Your position is

Jesus was God?

stopped being God?

became God again?

 

[civic]

?????????????

Your position is

Jesus was God?

stopped being God?

became God again?

here we go round the mulberry bush, merry go round etc.........

all over the map

 

[TomL]

here we go round the mulberry bush, merry go round etc.........

all over the map

It would be a rather unusual position

 

[civic]

It would be a rather unusual position

Never heard it before

 

[David Koberstein]

This entire exercise is done by you to justify your adopted religion and has nothing to do with seeking God's Truth through the Word's God gave to HIS Son Jesus, to give to us. You guys make up words and labels to separate and divide and then catalogue this world's religions into groups. And like the Calvinists, you believe "your adopted religious group" is the one true way, while everyone who doesn't bow down to your hermeneutics and exegesis is deceived.

I don't know yet if your do this on purpose to deceive, or if you are ignorant and blind. So I am willing to engage again with you, to see if you are searching for truth, or just justification.



Not all Jews who saw Him or heard of Him, rejected Him. Zacharias knew who HE was, before HE was even born. Simeon knew and understood who HE was at 8 days old. The Wise men too. They were all waiting for Him to come. So who was it that was ready to stone the man Jesus, simply because HE told them that HE was the One Prophesied by Moses and the Prophets, in whom they claimed to trust? Did Nathaniel in John 1, attempt to stone Him for saying the same thing?


Again, this is a huge lie, that if you would only hear Moses and the Prophets you would know. If you would only believe the Words of the same Christ you claim to love, you wouldn't make this false statement. According to Paul, these men were "Ignorant" of God's Righteousness. They had the Oracles of God, but didn't believe them. They were given the Laws of God by the disposition of Angels, and the refused to walk in them. The Entire Law and Prophets describes a religious body who professed to know God, but by their "works" denied HIM. They had killed and persecuted the Prophets God had sent them for centuries.

Is. 1: 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. 3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

Mal. 2: 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been "partial in the law".

I could go on and on.

Matt. 3: 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee "from the wrath to come"? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits "meet for repentance":

But the very foundation of this sermon you are preaching to justify your religion, is founded on the LIE that the Jews who wanted to stone Him "knew the OT better than anyone". Clearly Zacharias knew the OT better, Simeon as well. But the entire Bible talks about rebellious Jews being Blinded. Even Paul had scales fall off his eyes before he could see the truth.

Rom. 1: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

How can you, a self-proclaimed "preacher", not know these things, but a nobody you call an anti-Christ, and hater of Jesus like me can?



No! HE didn't "claim to be God Himself". Not as a mortal man walking the earth. But again, your entire religion is founded on false beliefs. You don't believe The Holy One of Israel, the Rock who fed and watered Israel, became a man in the person of Jesus. You don't believe His Laid down His Immortal life for anyone. You don't believe HE risked His Life at all.

If you were to know the Scriptures, and "believe them", you wouldn't promote this religion you have adopted. Just as the Calvinists would promote their adopted religion. Just as the Jews wouldn't have adopted the religious sect of the Pharisees, like Zacharias, Simeon and Anna didn't adopt their religious philosophies.



The Jesus "of the Bible" said;

John 5: 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he (The Father) given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him (The Son) authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Elijah was also given the power to raise the dead from the same Father. At least according to Scriptures.



Matt. 9: 6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou (The Father) hast given him (The Son) "power over all flesh", that he should give eternal life "to as many as thou (The Father) hast given him (The Son). 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God,( The Father) and Jesus Christ, (His Son) whom thou (The Father) hast sent.

Because I believe in this God, and this "Jesus", I am labeled by you and "Many" who come in Christ's Name, a reprobate and anti-Christ.


Before he became a mortal human, HE created all these things, including the Sabbath of God that HE never broke.



By preaching to others that Jesus overcame temptation on earth because HE was an immortal God is blasphemy, and Anti-Christ.

And it demeans the effort and Faith HE had in His Father, in order to endure such "contradiction of sinners against himself". I am to keep this in mind, "lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds". For I have not yet resisted unto blood, "striving against sin". But you preach HE resisted nothing, as HE was immortal God who can't even be touched by temptation.

I know you will not be persuaded Civic, to accept the Jesus "of the Bible", the Author and finisher of my Faith, and that you are snared to promote your image of God. Nevertheless, who knows when you might have a change of heart and turn to the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, so that HE might give you to Jesus for perfecting.



How is believing all that is actually written, excluding me from God, and being given to the His Son, the Lord's Christ? What if it is your image of God that is the false god, and the True Savior is the Jesus "of the bible"?



The Jesus "of the bible", is my Lord and Savior, and High Priest of God, advocating between me and His Father who sent Him, even to this day. I know you have adopted the popular gods of this world God placed us in, and for a time I was also snared and taken captive by them. But by the Grace of God, I have been freed from this captivity and am being led by the Jesus "of the Bible", on a journey, an Exodus to the promised land, being watered and fed by the Rock of Israel, The Lord's Christ.

Yes, you will try and detour me, and you will call me names, Jesus said you were coming. Nevertheless, I would invite you to take a leap of Faith and consider listening to all the Words of the Christ of the bible, and not just hearing His Words, but becoming a "Doer" of His Sayings.



Yes, as HE Himself Teaches, "The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.
My Lord and Savior served and obeyed His Father. I am instructed by this same Christ to "walk even as HE walked". This will make you angry as well, because you preach God placed impossible Laws on the necks of men who place their trust in Him, and if I am "Striving against transgressing God's Commandments", I am trying to be like God. Truly there is nothing new under the sun.



Yes, like you, they didn't believe the Holy One of Israel came to earth as a man, as Prophesied, because they didn't believe Moses and didn't know the Old Testament Scriptures.



Yes, Jesus was perfect, even as His Father in heaven was perfect. And you also refuse to accept the truth about these children of the devil who were liars and murderers, accusing Him. And you do so to justify yourself. But here is what Jesus actually said.

John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom "the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world", Thou blasphemest; "because I said", "I am the Son of God"?

37 If I do not the works "of my Father", believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

You have created "another Jesus" Civic. I was warned about this. I hope you might be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness", that you might "walk" even as the Jesus "of the Bible" walked, as HE himself instructed.

You must be another merchant selling biblical heresy. Civic makes excellent points with relevant Scripture. You not so much. You taken paganism to a new level.

This entire exercise is done by you to justify your adopted religion and has nothing to do with seeking God's Truth through the Word's God gave to HIS Son Jesus, to give to us. You guys make up words and labels to separate and divide and then catalogue this world's religions into groups. And like the Calvinists, you believe "your adopted religious group" is the one true way, while everyone who doesn't bow down to your hermeneutics and exegesis is deceived.

I don't know yet if your do this on purpose to deceive, or if you are ignorant and blind. So I am willing to engage again with you, to see if you are searching for truth, or just justification.



Not all Jews who saw Him or heard of Him, rejected Him. Zacharias knew who HE was, before HE was even born. Simeon knew and understood who HE was at 8 days old. The Wise men too. They were all waiting for Him to come. So who was it that was ready to stone the man Jesus, simply because HE told them that HE was the One Prophesied by Moses and the Prophets, in whom they claimed to trust? Did Nathaniel in John 1, attempt to stone Him for saying the same thing?


Again, this is a huge lie, that if you would only hear Moses and the Prophets you would know. If you would only believe the Words of the same Christ you claim to love, you wouldn't make this false statement. According to Paul, these men were "Ignorant" of God's Righteousness. They had the Oracles of God, but didn't believe them. They were given the Laws of God by the disposition of Angels, and the refused to walk in them. The Entire Law and Prophets describes a religious body who professed to know God, but by their "works" denied HIM. They had killed and persecuted the Prophets God had sent them for centuries.

Is. 1: 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. 3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

Mal. 2: 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been "partial in the law".

I could go on and on.

Matt. 3: 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee "from the wrath to come"? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits "meet for repentance":

But the very foundation of this sermon you are preaching to justify your religion, is founded on the LIE that the Jews who wanted to stone Him "knew the OT better than anyone". Clearly Zacharias knew the OT better, Simeon as well. But the entire Bible talks about rebellious Jews being Blinded. Even Paul had scales fall off his eyes before he could see the truth.

Rom. 1: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

How can you, a self-proclaimed "preacher", not know these things, but a nobody you call an anti-Christ, and hater of Jesus like me can?



No! HE didn't "claim to be God Himself". Not as a mortal man walking the earth. But again, your entire religion is founded on false beliefs. You don't believe The Holy One of Israel, the Rock who fed and watered Israel, became a man in the person of Jesus. You don't believe His Laid down His Immortal life for anyone. You don't believe HE risked His Life at all.

If you were to know the Scriptures, and "believe them", you wouldn't promote this religion you have adopted. Just as the Calvinists would promote their adopted religion. Just as the Jews wouldn't have adopted the religious sect of the Pharisees, like Zacharias, Simeon and Anna didn't adopt their religious philosophies.



The Jesus "of the Bible" said;

John 5: 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he (The Father) given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him (The Son) authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Elijah was also given the power to raise the dead from the same Father. At least according to Scriptures.



Matt. 9: 6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou (The Father) hast given him (The Son) "power over all flesh", that he should give eternal life "to as many as thou (The Father) hast given him (The Son). 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God,( The Father) and Jesus Christ, (His Son) whom thou (The Father) hast sent.

Because I believe in this God, and this "Jesus", I am labeled by you and "Many" who come in Christ's Name, a reprobate and anti-Christ.


Before he became a mortal human, HE created all these things, including the Sabbath of God that HE never broke.



By preaching to others that Jesus overcame temptation on earth because HE was an immortal God is blasphemy, and Anti-Christ.

And it demeans the effort and Faith HE had in His Father, in order to endure such "contradiction of sinners against himself". I am to keep this in mind, "lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds". For I have not yet resisted unto blood, "striving against sin". But you preach HE resisted nothing, as HE was immortal God who can't even be touched by temptation.

I know you will not be persuaded Civic, to accept the Jesus "of the Bible", the Author and finisher of my Faith, and that you are snared to promote your image of God. Nevertheless, who knows when you might have a change of heart and turn to the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, so that HE might give you to Jesus for perfecting.



How is believing all that is actually written, excluding me from God, and being given to the His Son, the Lord's Christ? What if it is your image of God that is the false god, and the True Savior is the Jesus "of the bible"?



The Jesus "of the bible", is my Lord and Savior, and High Priest of God, advocating between me and His Father who sent Him, even to this day. I know you have adopted the popular gods of this world God placed us in, and for a time I was also snared and taken captive by them. But by the Grace of God, I have been freed from this captivity and am being led by the Jesus "of the Bible", on a journey, an Exodus to the promised land, being watered and fed by the Rock of Israel, The Lord's Christ.

Yes, you will try and detour me, and you will call me names, Jesus said you were coming. Nevertheless, I would invite you to take a leap of Faith and consider listening to all the Words of the Christ of the bible, and not just hearing His Words, but becoming a "Doer" of His Sayings.



Yes, as HE Himself Teaches, "The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.
My Lord and Savior served and obeyed His Father. I am instructed by this same Christ to "walk even as HE walked". This will make you angry as well, because you preach God placed impossible Laws on the necks of men who place their trust in Him, and if I am "Striving against transgressing God's Commandments", I am trying to be like God. Truly there is nothing new under the sun.



Yes, like you, they didn't believe the Holy One of Israel came to earth as a man, as Prophesied, because they didn't believe Moses and didn't know the Old Testament Scriptures.



Yes, Jesus was perfect, even as His Father in heaven was perfect. And you also refuse to accept the truth about these children of the devil who were liars and murderers, accusing Him. And you do so to justify yourself. But here is what Jesus actually said.

John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom "the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world", Thou blasphemest; "because I said", "I am the Son of God"?

37 If I do not the works "of my Father", believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

You have created "another Jesus" Civic. I was warned about this. I hope you might be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness", that you might "walk" even as the Jesus "of the Bible" walked, as HE

?????????????

Your position is

Jesus was God?

stopped being God?

became God again?

I

?????????????

Your position is

Jesus was God?

stopped being God?

became God again?

I think Studyman needs to do a lot of studying and quit being delusional

 

[TomL]

Never heard it before

ditto

 

[TomL]

You must be another merchant selling biblical heresy. Civic makes excellent points with relevant Scripture. You not so much. You taken paganism to a new level.




I

I think Studyman needs to do a lot of studying and quit being delusional

A one person denomination

 

[Studyman]

?????????????

Your position is

Jesus was God?

stopped being God?

became God again?

I know you and Civic and Kenneth Copeland and this world's religious system, don't believe the Word of God, the Holy One of Israel, the "Rock", became a mortal human in the person of Jesus. The children of the devil in Jesus' time didn't believe the Prophesies either.

Nevertheless, your unbelief notwithstanding, the Jesus "of the bible" did tell me;

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou (Father) hast given him (The Son) power over all flesh, that he (Son of God) should give eternal life to as many as thou (Father) hast given him (Son).

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God (Father), and Jesus Christ, (Son) whom thou (Father) hast sent.

4 "I have glorified thee" on the earth: I have finished the work which "thou gavest me to do".

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory "which I had with thee" before the world was.

But you and Civics god never laid down His Immortal Life which He had with the Father before the world was, for anyone. Your god risked nothing for others. Your god came to earth as "Fully God", who couldn't be tempted, and couldn't die, as he still possessed the Glory HE had "with God" before the world was.

The Christ "of the Bible", was an immortal God who existed with His Father before the World was, (and the Word was with God, and the Word was God) who laid down His Immortal Life at the Will of His Father and became a mortal man in the person of Jesus. HIS Faith was tried just as the Faith of all men is tried. And HE overcame by Faith in His Father. Proven by the "Works" HE walked in that His Father "before ordained" that mortal men should walk in them.

So the "Word" "of the Bible", was God and was with God, then this "Word" who was with God, became a mortal man in the person of Jesus, at the behest of His Father, and this world's religious men hated HIM because of the Fathers Words HE spoke, just as they hate the Father and His instruction in righteousness. So men, who professed to know God, murdered Him. But His Father raised Him from the dead, and because of His undying Faithfulness, gave Him a Name above all other mortal humans born of a woman. And this Same Christ is my Lord and Savior and is standing at the Right Hand of His Father even today, advocating between me and His Father.

As it is written in the Law and Prophets;

Ps. 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: "therefore God", thy God, "hath anointed thee" with the oil of gladness "above thy fellows".

I would post more of His Words, but you already have Moses and the Prophets and if you can't hear them, you won't be persuaded to listen to the Jesus "of the Bible". As HE said;

Luke 16: 1 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

You have been snared by the image of the God of the Catholic religion. You have rejected God's Judgments and Statutes and have adopted hers. You are worshipping their image of God in the Likness of some random, handsome men's hair shampoo model, and have adopted her high days in worship of this image. All of which are in direct violation of the Jesus of the Bible's very Own Words that HE said to be "doers" of and not hearers only.


Come out of her Tom, before it's too late. Not because I said so, but because the Holy Scriptures, and the Words of the Father and His Son who HE sent, tells you to.

 

[Studyman]

These 4 facts/witnesses testify to the Son and His Glory,

1- Jesus testimony about Himself that the O.T.- all the law, prophets and the Psalms are about Him

Yes, as it is written;

Ps. 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness "therefore God", thy God, "hath anointed thee" with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

And again;

Is. 53: 1 Who hath believed our report? (Not you Civic) and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, "there is no beauty that we should desire him". 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Nothing like the image of God you have adopted, with his long flowing hair, and perfect profile.

2- The testimony of the Father- This is My Son listen to Him

Jer. 6: 16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, "and walk therein", and ye "shall find rest for your souls". But they (Civic) said, We will not walk therein.

And again;

Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Why don't you listen to Him then Civic.

Matt. 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

3- The Holy Spirits ministry is to Glorify the Son, bear witness to the Son

John 14: 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In "my Father's house" are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Phil. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, "and became obedient" unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore "God" also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that "Jesus Christ is Lord", to the glory "of God the Father".

And again;

Eph. 1: 17 That the "God of our Lord Jesus Christ", the Father of glory, "may give unto you" the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when "he" (God the Father) raised "him" (Jesus, His son) from the dead, and set him "at his own right hand in the heavenly places",

Your religious business is to glorify your image of God in the likeness of some handsome long-haired man. The Gospel of the Christ "of the bible" was to Glorify the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, who raised HIM from the dead.

4- The Sons words are spirit and life

John 14: 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you "I speak not of myself": but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 4: 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers "shall worship the Father" in spirit and in truth: for the Father "seeketh such to worship him". 24 "God is a Spirit": and "they that worship him" must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 17: 8 For I have given unto them "the words" which "thou" gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that "thou didst send me".

John 6: 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up "where he was before"?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the "words that I speak unto you" (Given Him by His Father and my Father), they are spirit, and they are life.

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

 

[Studyman]

You must be another merchant selling biblical heresy. Civic makes excellent points with relevant Scripture. You not so much. You taken paganism to a new level.

Acts 24: 13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which "they call heresy", so worship I the God of my fathers, believing "all things" which are written in the law and in the prophets:

I think Studyman needs to do a lot of studying and quit being delusional

The Holy Scriptures are trustworthy, in my view, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

Yes, the Jesus "of the Bible" warned that there are "many" who come in Christ's Name, who promote that such a belief is "delusional", nevertheless, I trust the Scriptures anyway.