He (the poster) does not know what he is talking about
Praying to Jesus
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civic
Well-known member
correct.
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
You caught that my friend . Stephen sure did call upon JESUS the CHRIST .
LORD JESUS recieve my SPIRIT .
On another note that must have been one GLORIOUS sight for stephen to have seen the LORD in all HIS glory
in the heavens right before he went to be WITH HIM . what a glorious LORD provided HOME awaits the lambs at the end of our faith .
stephens end came with stones and harsh words against him . But though he had rebuked them big time and very sharply
even at his end he prayed their forgiveness . TO lay not THIS SIN against them .
But always remember THEY DID warn against sin and error . sometimes folks see me as a monster
cause i warn so much against sin error and false doctrine and false leaders .
But they dont see the tears i weep for them either .
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
Why do i believe GOD is HIS word . cause the BIBLE says so .
I seen some that of that langauge JESUS uses in revelation too . I am alpha and omega .
HE says that . And i sure never seemed to see JESUS THE CHRIST
correcting dear thomas for kneeling before HIM and saying MY LORD AND MY GOD . DID you see JESUS rebuke thomas .
Exactly . We got dieity deniers in the house .
Now while i do understand it can be a bit harder at first to grasp things
What we cannot do is TWIST the scrips to fit a lie .
IN other words i knew what was written in the gospel of JOHN and i beleived it , though i did not understand it .
BUT , by grace the more i read that bible , Suddenly ONE DAY it became VERY CLEAR , the UNDERSTANDIG CAME
SO let me leave us with these words . GOD IS HIS WORD and HIS WORD BE HE
JUST as GOD is HIS SPIRIT , that same SPIRIT is CHRIST . there are not two spirits , one of Christ one of GOD . ITS THE SAME SPIRIT .
When folks deny the diety of Christ i do surely tremble for their sakes .
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
Exactly . not only that but WHO is the comforter . the one whom JESUS said IS WITH YOU and SHALL BE IN YOU .
That I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU COMFORTLESS , that I WILL COME TO YOU . oh they three BE ONE ALL RIGHT .
GOD is HIS SPIRIT , HE IS HIS WORD , JESUS IS THE WORD , HE IS THE SPIRIT . there are not two spirits of GOD , one of CHRIST and one of GOD .
Diety deniers are in danger and must be taught right and true according to the bible and that doctrine .
By the grace of GOD and by His grace HE put me into that book over eighteen years ago my friend . With a love FOR THE TRUTH
shed BY HIM upon my heart . You ever wonder why i often holler and beg , remind and say GET n them bibles for yourselves .
Now raise them hands up , its LORD praising time in the building . My FATHER and I shall make our abode with him .
Jesus says that too . Now lift them hands up and never heed a twisted version of any bible
that puts a god , and a word and etc in the place of where it says GOD . many are being decieved .
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
I worry when i hear folks saying GOD created the SON .
How on earth did GOD create HIS OWN ESSENCE . HE just always was and has been .
In a time that has no beginning or end . a time that the feeble mind of man cannot grasp .
He had NO beginning nor shall HE have an end . What great comfort there is IN THE LORD and IN HIS WORD .
He whose mind is stayed on HIM shall have perfect peace . In this world tribulation but in HIM peace , peace of mind
for that mind trusts in the LORD and knows no matter what cometh against it
GOD is with us . and if we do die , WE HOME . no fear of death . JESUS conquered that . We shall never die .
The body will , or at HIS coming the body shall be changed , but we LIVE IN HIM FOREVER . what great peace there be IN THE LORD .
Now raise those hands and point anyone to CHRIST JESUS while there still be time to do so .
How on earth did GOD create HIS OWN ESSENCE . HE just always was and has been .
In a time that has no beginning or end . a time that the feeble mind of man cannot grasp .
He had NO beginning nor shall HE have an end . What great comfort there is IN THE LORD and IN HIS WORD .
He whose mind is stayed on HIM shall have perfect peace . In this world tribulation but in HIM peace , peace of mind
for that mind trusts in the LORD and knows no matter what cometh against it
GOD is with us . and if we do die , WE HOME . no fear of death . JESUS conquered that . We shall never die .
The body will , or at HIS coming the body shall be changed , but we LIVE IN HIM FOREVER . what great peace there be IN THE LORD .
Now raise those hands and point anyone to CHRIST JESUS while there still be time to do so .
Runningman
Well-known member
Brilliant. So you deny the hypostatic union of Jesus? That makes it easier for me.
Eccl 12:7 tells us where the spirit goes upon death
Civic does not deny the hypostatic union.
Runningman
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
The HU and Kenosis are not the same. You don’t know what they mean by your above comments. I have threads on both explaining them in great detail.
Runningman
Well-known member
Let's go with that then. Therefore, Jesus is only a man. That's the result.
Civic uses the word to denote an emptying of his deity
He denies the word lost his deity
Marvelloustime
Active member
Runningman
Well-known member
Doesn't work in the context. The church of Philippi needs to have the mind to empty themselves of deity? It must refer to emptying oneself of their own will to serve and obey God.
civic
Well-known member
correct
civic
Well-known member
Philippians 2:5-8
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
NIV
These translation capture the meaning of the text in its CONTEXT.
New International Version
rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
New Living Translation
Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,
New King James Version
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
King James Bible
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Thayers Greek Lexicon
namely, τοῦ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ or τῆς μορφῆς τοῦ Θεοῦ, i. e. he laid aside equality with or the form of God (said of Christ), Philippians 2:7
Strongs Lexicon
From kenos; to make empty, i.e. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify -- make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain.
Louw Nida Greek Lexicon
87.70 κενόωb: to completely remove or eliminate elements of high status or rank by eliminating all privileges or prerogatives associated with such status or rank.
What Paul makes very clear in this passage is that in addition to being God, He became man. The Incarnation was not a subtraction of His deity but an addition of humanity to His nature. This passage does not say Jesus gave up His deity but that He laid aside His rights as Deity, assuming the form of a servant in verse 7. The text says He was in the form of God or being in the very nature of God in 2:6. Just as He took upon Himself the "form of a servant" which is a servant by nature, so the "form of God" is God by nature. The word "being" from the phrase: being in the very form of God is a present active participle. This means "continued existence" as God. What Paul is actually saying here is Jesus has always been and still is in the "form of God". If you continue reading the passage Paul really drives this point home so that his readers have no doubt what he is trying to get across to the Philippians. Paul says that every knee will bow and will one day Confess Jesus is LORD. Paul takes the passage in Isaiah 45:23 which clearly refers to Yahweh a name used for God alone and says this of Jesus. The fulfillment of YHWH in Isaiah 45 is none other than Jesus who is God(Yahweh) in the flesh.
He self limited His divine prerogatives via the Incarnation as per Phil 2. In other words did not use them to His advantage but was in submission to the Father for 33 years to accomplish our salvation. All the FULLNESS of DEITY dwells in bodily form. Col 1:19;2:9. Jesus was and is fully God lacking nothing in His Deity.
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Even through Christ existed in the form of God He did not regard equality with God something that He needed to reach for or grasp. Why because it was already His and never gave that up for a millisecond.
Paul is using syllogisms from the text in Philippians 2.
Just as the term “form of God” in verse six does not mean “less than God” because of the phrase “equality with God" in the prior passage.
It goes to reason in the same way with the 2 phrases in the “form of a servant” and in the “likeness of man” in verse seven do not mean that Jesus was any “less than human,” but instead means He was the same or “equal with all humans.”
That is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT ".
In Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus.
conclusion:When Jesus came to earth He laid aside or emptied Himself of something. There are many misconceptions at to what He set aside. It was not His Deity. Jesus could not empty Himself of His Deity - He could not stop being God. He was always God the Son. He could not exchange His Deity for His humanity. Neither did He set aside only some of His divine attributes and keep others. In addition, Jesus always knew He was God and possessed these divine attributes - He was not ignorant of who He was or what He could do. Moreover Jesus allowed the people to know that He had such powers. Neither did Jesus set aside the use of His relative attributes such as being all-powerful, all-knowing, and everywhere present. Those powers were always present with Him.When Jesus became a human being He divested Himself of certain rights as God the Son. This can be seen in three ways. First He restricted Himself to a human body with all its limitations. He gave up His position when He became a human being. Second He veiled or hid His glory from the people. Finally, He exercised His relative attributes only by the will of God the Father - never on His own initiative.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
Hypostatic Union
You have no clue what it means so let me share with you what the H.U. is all about.
1. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)
2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)
3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus, the Divine Son who is the 2nd Person of the Trinity. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed,wept, grew in wisdom and stature,was anointed,was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature. The Creed of Chalcedon declares that : “in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation, the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one persona and one subsistence, not parted or divided into two person, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ.
4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).
5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)
6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)
7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a member of the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)
Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person. So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the general council at Chalcedon 451 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).
We need to look to the Monothelite Controversy which had to deal with whether there was one or two wills/minds in the person of Christ. The outcome was that there were two; one human and one divine with the human subjected to the divine. The eternal Son of God did not assume a part of a human nature without a mind, without a will, without human activity, but He assumed all the things that were planted in our nature by God.
Now then, to act (or in this case, speak) is the work of a person, but the form or nature is the cause of this action; for each person acts in accord with the form or nature which it has. A difference in causes (natures) produces a difference in effects (actions). Therefore, where there are different natures, there are also different activities. So in the one Person of Christ there are two natural actions, the divine and the human, each of which has its own essential attributes, functions, and actions. Jesus was thirty years old according to His human nature (Luke 3:23); according to His divine nature He could say: "Before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58). The question is did both natures know this and communicate it to the Person. The answer is yes because the divine nature with its corresponding divine will willed the human nature to respond in such a fashion in keeping with Christ's office and ministry. In the text regarding Mark 13:32, we have a slightly different situation here. Christ is acting (speaking) from His human nature, but, this time, the divine will does not allow the human will access to this knowledge. For this information is not to be published on earth. Therefore, as man, Christ cannot answer the question. In the works pertaining to the office of Christ as Prophet, Priest, and King both natures act in conjunction with each other, each nature doing what is peculiar to the same. The book of Hebrews goes into great detail with these offices.
hope this helps !!!
Runningman
Well-known member
Paul debunked the deity of Jesus in this passage, saying that Jesus is a servant and a man. There is no suggestion that Jesus was anything more than a servant and a man who did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped because Jesus is not equal to God.
Jesus being equal to God wasn't something in Paul's wheelhouse of theology and Paul regularly contradicted the idea in the version you used. Did Paul ever expand on the idea that Jesus was a man who emptied himself of deity? If he did, then he is a regular man and not God. If he didn't empty himself of deity, then he wouldn't be a man again.
In Scripture, Jesus is a man through whom God worked through. Paul kept on calling Jesus a man after Jesus was already taken to heaven.
1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Keep in mind the context of Philippians 2. Paul is telling the church of Philippi to have the mind of Jesus and explaining what the mind of Jesus is. So what Jesus has must also be attainable for the church. If the mind of Jesus isn't attainable, as Paul said, then they couldn't have the mind of Jesus. he word "form" refers to the outward appearances in Scripture. It's used this way in the New Testament and Greek Septuagint. It refers to what one can see with their eyes. Paul was saying that since Jesus does what he saw God doing that they can do what Jesus does.
civic
Well-known member
nope and nice dodging Phil 2 and diverting. that speaks volumes about you inability to engage the text and stay on topic- so far all you have done is based on your subjective opinion which is eisegesis whereas I provided an exegetic post about the passage.
hope this helps !!!
