Praying to Jesus
- Thread starter civic
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Again ignoring the New Testament
I have stated it multiple times
New testament writers went out of their way to attribute to Christ titles and function which are only attribured to YHWH in the old testament
You have ignored this
Romans 10:9–13 (KJV 1900) — 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
in Context lord here is the lord Jesus who we call on for salvation. There is no other name by which we can be saved Acts 4:10-12
BTW the New Testament is clear Christ is the cornerstone
You see how the New Testament writer apply to Jesus what is attributed to YHWH in the Old Testament
Ephesians 2:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Acts 4:11–12 (NASB 2020) — 11 He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE. 12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among mankind by which we must be saved.”
You have consistently ignore this and argued apart fromn the New testament
thus begging the question
BTW The New Testament calls Jesus God
If I do not see your denial it is because the New Testament does not teach it.
Runningman
Active member
No. You confess Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God (YHWH) raised him from the dead to be saved. You must also call upon the name of the LORD YHWH to be saved. The cornerstone is the one YHWH laid, the Messiah that YHWH installed. YHWH is Jesus' God and Father. They are in no way the same person.
Psalm 2
6“I have installed My King on Zion,
upon My holy mountain.”
7I will proclaim the decree
spoken to Me by the LORD:
“You are My Son;
today I have become Your Father.
hope this helps!!!!
Which does nothing to refute the Trinity.
Runningman
Active member
Stating the same error will not resolve the error.
And... this proves that YHWH and Jesus aren't the same person. For starters, Jesus isn't God in this passage. To Paul and the Jews, God is YHWH. So the Lord Jesus is a different Lord than the Lord YHWH.
Paul quoted verse from the OT clearly showing that Jesus is the cornerstone YHWH laid. So YHWH didn't lay Himself or He would have said that. Therefore, since YHWH isn't the cornerstone then YHWH is the one you must call on to be saved. No where in Scripture does the bible say call on Jesus to be saved because he isn't God.
Perfect, Jesus is the cornerstone and YHWH isn't according to Scripture. I am amazed you can't understand this. Look at it again. I hope this helps man.
Step 1:
The cornerstone is not YHWH.
Isaiah 28
16So this is what the Lord GOD says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;
the one who believes will never be shaken.
Step 2:
YHWH is the one to call on to be be saved.
Joel 2
32And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD
will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance, as the LORD has promised,
among the remnant called by the LORD.
Post 564.
Runningman
Active member
What Trinity?
Runningman
Active member
Where is it taught or described then.
Runningman
Active member
It's conveniently missing any mention of God being a Trinity.
There is more than only one way to express a truth claim.
Runningman
Active member
Thank you for correctly stating it's your claim. You are free to express anything you wish, I suppose.
So correct your error
You have consistently ignored data contrary to your view
I stated
New testament writers went out of their way to attribute to Christ titles and function which are only attribured to YHWH in the old testament
You have ignored this
Romans 10:9–13 (KJV 1900) — 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
You completely ignored that and ignored the point the passage was quoted for
Jesus is the lord you must call on for salvation
Sorry but that is absurd and irrational reasoning
Romans 10:9–13 (KJV 1900) — 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 4:10–12 (NIV) — 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is “ ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ 12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
You are simply in denial
We are not in the old covenant but the New
And the New states
Romans 10:9–13 (KJV 1900) — 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 4:10–12 (NIV) — 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is “ ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ 12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
Runningman
Active member
The verses are correct but you're conflating one person with the other. That's a serious error. God is not named Jesus, Yeshua, Immanuel, etc in the Bible. Your argument seems to hinge on the word "Lord" which is a title. So you're conflating names of two different persons and titles when there is no relation one to the other.
I still have no idea how you can't understand that. It's a genuine marvel. Let's see if we can get to the root of it.
Why do you think Jesus is YHWH when Jesus is the cornerstone that YHWH laid? How did you get to that conclusion when Jesus' name isn't YHWH and miscellaneous other passages clearly place YHWH and Jesus beside each other and demonstrate they aren't the same person? Psalm 2:7 and Psalm 110:1 for example.
Runningman
Active member
The burden of proof is on you for making the claim without support.
Then supply a truth claim and I will give another way of expressing it.
Runningman
Active member
Your turn to prove your claim. You can't do it. The Trinity isn't described in the Bible.
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