Jesus denied being God

[TomL]

God isn't in the image of a bird, dove, man, statue, etc. The Holy Spirit is just a visual representation of the anointing Jesus received. The one speaking from heaven is God; He's the Father.

Once again


Again where do you see YHWH being in the form of a dove

Matthew 3:16 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;

BTW this is the Berean study bible an earlier and an updated one


(BSB) As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.
(BSB 1.2) As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.

The Spirit is on earth descending upon Christ and the father is in heaven

Matthew 3:16–17 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

Where is your justification for what you gave as a translation

First problem Biblehub does not have a standard translation

and this is what is obtained inputting Mat 3:16 into it

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. New Living Translation After his baptism, as Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and settling on him. English Standard Version And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; Berean Standard Bible As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. Berean Literal Bible And immediately, having been baptized, Jesus went up from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and alighting upon Him. it reads the same as what I have on Esword

 

[MTMattie]

yes but it is their choice

Again where do you see YHWH being in the form of a dove

Matthew 3:16 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;

BTW this is the Berean study bible an earlier and an updated one


(BSB) As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.
(BSB 1.2) As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.

The Spirit is on earth descending upon Christ and the father is in heaven

Matthew 3:16–17 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove

I'll take a stab at it while you wait for your reply from @Runningman.

I believe the concept of the Trinity is so foreign to him as well as all other Anti-Trin people they simply cannot see, much less appreciate the concept of The Holy Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. GOD IN # PERSONS , blessed Trinity.

So when he sees the Holy Spirit descending on Jesus, he assumes that YHWH is a dove. Since the deity of God applies to both.... and he cannot comprehend two individuals make one (Or 3 as should be)

I have used, till I am blue in the face, what was originally said in Gen 2:24

For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

We have a man... with his role in life. We have a woman with her role in life joined into one. 2 individuals but they are one. They are one but only the woman can give birth. Different jobs... different rolls.

In Genesis 1 we are told " 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters."

There just is no earthly reason to think that these two were the same unit when it is obvious they are two

 

[TomL]

I'll take a stab at it while you wait for your reply from @Runningman.

I believe the concept of the Trinity is so foreign to him as well as all other Anti-Trin people they simply cannot see, much less appreciate the concept of The Holy Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. GOD IN # PERSONS , blessed Trinity.

So when he sees the Holy Spirit descending on Jesus, he assumes that YHWH is a dove. Since the deity of God applies to both.... and he cannot comprehend two individuals make one (Or 3 as should be)

I have used, till I am blue in the face, what was originally said in Gen 2:24

For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

We have a man... with his role in life. We have a woman with her role in life joined into one. 2 individuals but they are one. They are one but only the woman can give birth. Different jobs... different rolls.

In Genesis 1 we are told " 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters."

There just is no earthly reason to think that these two were the same unit when it is obvious they are two

Not a bad thought as the BSB does not support him

 

[Runningman]

Once again


Again where do you see YHWH being in the form of a dove

Matthew 3:16 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;

BTW this is the Berean study bible an earlier and an updated one


(BSB) As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.
(BSB 1.2) As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.

The Spirit is on earth descending upon Christ and the father is in heaven

Matthew 3:16–17 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

Where is your justification for what you gave as a translation

First problem Biblehub does not have a standard translation

and this is what is obtained inputting Mat 3:16 into it

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. New Living Translation After his baptism, as Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and settling on him. English Standard Version And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; Berean Standard Bible As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. Berean Literal Bible And immediately, having been baptized, Jesus went up from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and alighting upon Him. it reads the same as what I have on Esword

I didn't quote Matt 3:16,17. I quoted from Luke 3 using the Berean Standard Bible. You referenced it above. And I provide the link to the version I use in all of my posts as I have been for years.

Luke 3
22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I believe the concept of the Trinity is so foreign to him as well as all other Anti-Trin people they simply cannot see, much less appreciate the concept of The Holy Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. GOD IN # PERSONS , blessed Trinity.

The concept of Trinity is foreign to @Runningman. It is foreign to me.
It is foreign to the vast majority of the beloved men and women who inhabit this planet.
It is foreign to the prophets of Israel.
It is foreign to Jesus and his disciples.
It is foreign to the Tanakh, to the New Testament and the Quran.
It is also foreign to you, in your heart of hearts.
You pray, love and worship a Single Mind, a single Agent: Our Father, the Only and True God.

 

[mikesw]

The concept of Trinity is foreign to @Runningman. It is foreign to me.
It is foreign to the vast majority of the beloved men and women who inhabit this planet.
It is foreign to the prophets of Israel.
It is foreign to Jesus and his disciples.
It is foreign to the Tanakh, to the New Testament and the Quran.
It is also foreign to you, in your heart of hearts.
You pray, love and worship a Single Mind, a single Agent: Our Father, the Only and True God.

oh my. you found the wrong Jesus, the New World NT and OT. This makes you the blind leading the blind. Do you have a real argument to follow rather than this gibberish? Nothing you share even suggests you trust scriptures or the God who gave us the real scriptures. You have even been a witness to how these people like Peterlag and runningman fail to give sufficient alternative explanations to the passages that point out the deity of Christ. At some point, you should be noting that their conception is unsupported.

 

[TomL]

I didn't quote Matt 3:16,17. I quoted from Luke 3 using the Berean Standard Bible. You referenced it above. And I provide the link to the version I use in all of my posts as I have been for years.

Luke 3
22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

Then your problem is with scripture

Not me

 

[MTMattie]

The concept of Trinity is foreign to @Runningman. It is foreign to me.
It is foreign to the vast majority of the beloved men and women who inhabit this planet.
It is foreign to the prophets of Israel.
It is foreign to Jesus and his disciples.
It is foreign to the Tanakh, to the New Testament and the Quran.
It is also foreign to you, in your heart of hearts.
You pray, love and worship a Single Mind, a single Agent: Our Father, the Only and True God.

I pray, love and worship God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Each one as the case may call for.

Explain this.....

There once was a baby who grew into a man and He was called Immanuel in Mathew.... "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel",(Matthew 1:23).
LOOK at the TRANSLATIONS AND WHAT THEY SAY Or are you going to hold out they are wrong because some say Emmanuel while others say Immanuel.

Peshitta
“Behold the virgin shall conceive, and she shall bear a son, and they shall call his Name Emmanuail, which is translated, 'Our God is with us'“.

Complete Jewish Bible
“The virgin will conceive and bear a son, and they will call him ‘Immanu El.” (The name means, “God is with us.”)
EVEN.....the JW bible which says
23  “Look! The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will name him Im·manʹu·el,”u which means, when translated, “With Us Is God.”v

READ THE FOLLOWING THEN ANSWER THE QUESTION AT THE END.

KJ21
“Behold, a virgin shall be with child and shall bring forth a Son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel” (which being interpreted is, “God with us”).
ASV
Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us.
AMP
“Behold, the virgin shall be with child and give birth to a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel”—which, when translated, means, “God with us.”
AMPC
Behold, the virgin shall become pregnant and give birth to a Son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel—which, when translated, means, God with us.
BRG
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
CSB
See, the virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they will name him Immanuel, which is translated “God is with us.”
CEB
Look! A virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, And they will call him, Emmanuel. (Emmanuel means “God with us.”)
CJB
“The virgin will conceive and bear a son, and they will call him ‘Immanu El.” (The name means, “God is with us.”)
CEV
“A virgin will have a baby boy, and he will be called Immanuel,” which means “God is with us.”
DARBY
Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which is, being interpreted, 'God with us.'
DLNT
‘Behold— the virgin will have a child in the womb, and she will give-birth to a Son. And they will call His name “Immanuel”’” [Isa 7:14], which being translated is “God with us”.
DRA
Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
ERV
“The virgin will be pregnant and will give birth to a son. They will name him Immanuel.” (Immanuel means “God with us.”)
EASY
The prophet had said, ‘A young woman who has never had sex will have a baby boy. People will call her son Immanuel.’ This name means ‘God is with us’.
EHV
“Look, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son. And they will name him Immanuel,” which means, “God with us.”
ESV
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
ESVUK
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
EXB
“[L Look; T Behold] The virgin will ·be pregnant [L conceive in her womb; Is. 7:14]. She will ·have [give birth to] a son, and they will name him Immanuel,” which [C in Hebrew] means “God is with us.”
GNV
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which is by interpretation, God with us.
GW
“The virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they will name him Immanuel,” which means “God is with us.”
GNT
“A virgin will become pregnant and have a son, and he will be called Immanuel” (which means, “God is with us”).
HCSB
See, the virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they will name Him Immanuel, which is translated “God is with us.”
ICB
“The virgin will be pregnant. She will have a son, and they will name him Immanuel.” This name means “God is with us.”
ISV
“See, a virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they will name him Immanuel,” which means, “God with us.”
PHILLIPS
All this happened to fulfil what the Lord had said through the prophet—‘Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel’. (“Immanuel” means “God with us.”)
JUB
Behold, a virgin shall conceive and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is God With Us.
KJV
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
AKJV
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
LSB
“Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.”
LEB
“Behold, the virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Emmanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
TLB
‘Listen! The virgin shall conceive a child! She shall give birth to a Son, and he shall be called “Emmanuel” (meaning “God is with us”).’”
MSG
While he was trying to figure a way out, he had a dream. God’s angel spoke in the dream: “Joseph, son of David, don’t hesitate to get married. Mary’s pregnancy is Spirit-conceived. God’s Holy Spirit has made her pregnant. She will bring a son to birth, and when she does, you, Joseph, will name him Jesus—‘God saves’—because he will save his people from their sins.” This would bring the prophet’s embryonic revelation to full term: Watch for this—a virgin will get pregnant and bear a son; They will name him Immanuel (Hebrew for “God is with us”).
MEV
“A virgin shall be with child, and will bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is interpreted, “God with us.”
MOUNCE
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and give birth to a son, and they shall call · him Emmanuel,” which is translated “God is with us.” ·
NOG
“The virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they will name him Immanuel,” which means “God is with us.”
NABRE
“Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means “God is with us.”
NASB
“Behold, the virgin will conceive and give birth to a Son, and they shall name Him Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.”
NASB1995
“Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.”
NCB
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and give birth to a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” a name that means “God is with us.”
NCV
“The virgin will be pregnant. She will have a son, and they will name him Immanuel,” which means “God is with us.”
NET
“Look! The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will name him Emmanuel,” which means “God with us.”
NIRV
“The virgin is going to have a baby. She will give birth to a son. And he will be called Immanuel.” (Isaiah 7:14) The name Immanuel means “God with us.”
NIV
“The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).
NIVUK
‘The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel’ (which means ‘God with us’).
NKJV
“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
NLV
He said, “The young woman, who has never had a man, will give birth to a Son. They will give Him the name Immanuel. This means God with us.”
NLT
“Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel, which means ‘God is with us.’”
NMB
Behold, a maiden shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which is by interpretation, God with us.
NRSVA
‘Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel’, which means, ‘God is with us.’
NRSVACE
‘Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel’, which means, ‘God is with us.’
NRSVCE
“Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means, “God is with us.”
NRSVUE
“Look, the virgin shall become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means, “God is with us.”
NTFE
“Look: the virgin is pregnant, and will have a son, and they shall give him the name Emmanuel,”—which means, in translation, “God with us.”
OJB
HINEI, HAALMAH HARAH VYOLEDET BEN VKARAT SHMO IMMANU-EL (Behold, the Virgin will be with child and will bear Son and will call his name Immanu-El—Isa 7:14; cf page vii), which translated means G-d is with us.
RGT
“Behold, a virgin shall be with Child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which is by interpretation, ‘God with us’.”
RSV
“Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emman′u-el” (which means, God with us).
RSVCE
“Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emman′u-el” (which means, God with us).
TLV
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and give birth to a son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which means “God with us.”
VOICE
A virgin will conceive and bear a Son, and His name will be Immanuel (which is a Hebrew name that means “God with us”).
WEB
“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall give birth to a son. They shall call his name Immanuel,” which is, being interpreted, “God with us.”Isaiah 7:14
WE
The prophet said, `A young woman who has not slept with a man is going to have a baby son. His name will be Emmanuel. That means "God is with us." '
WYC
Lo! a virgin shall have in [the] womb, and she shall bear a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, that is to say [that is interpreted], God with us.
YLT
`Lo, the virgin shall conceive, and she shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel,' which is, being interpreted `With us [he is] God.'

Why wasn't Jesus named Immanuel.... As simply as can be explained... thought I doubt the nay sayers will understand...

If Jesus was called “Immanuel” (meaning Jesus is God) , and He dwelt among us in His incarnation, and He is always with us.
Jesus was God in the flesh.

Jesus was God making His dwelling among us (John 1:1, 14).

God keeps His promises. Virgin Mary

The Virgin Mary bore a son. Two thousand years ago, in Bethlehem, we see that baby born and lowered into the hay for a resting place. That baby, as incredible as it seems, is God. That Baby is God with us. Jesus, as our Immanuel, is omnipotence, omniscience, perfection, and the love that never fails—with us.

No, Joseph did not name Jesus “Immanuel,” but Jesus’ nature makes Him truly Immanuel, “God with us.” Isaiah told us to watch for Immanuel, the virgin-born Son of God. He will save us; He will reconcile people to God and restore creation to its original beauty. We know Him as Jesus, but we can also call Him “God with us,” because that’s exactly who He is.

QUESTION: why did Immanuel , who was called Jesus, tell them to "“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit," Matt 28:19. ?????????????????

It is because there are 3, and each has their own ....ummmmmmm.... lets simplify and say jobs to do.

 

[MTMattie]

I didn't quote Matt 3:16,17. I quoted from Luke 3 using the Berean Standard Bible. You referenced it above. And I provide the link to the version I use in all of my posts as I have been for years.

Luke 3
22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

Voice from heaven #`1

Jusus coming out of the water #2

Descending Dove #3.

I count 3 in this scenario... how about you?

What seems to be your problem? (I might remind you that the Holy Spirit was also in the very beginning of earth.... 2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

Kind of like when the Spirit descended onto Jesus.... Gently moving to Him.

DID YOU EVER READ ANY OF ENOCH?

Here is a side story... provided for entertainment as well as education....

Part of Enoch's story about creation states this....

Enoch and the Mysteries of God – 2 Enoch 23-37​

After he becomes like the angels, Enoch is instructed by Vrevoil, the swiftest of the archangels who records all the Lord’s deeds. After being instructed for 30 days and 30 nights, Enoch records this instruction in 366 books (22:10-23:6; Recension A has 360 books). After writing the books, Enoch is invited to sit next to the Lord with Gabriel.
God proceeds to explain “mysteries” of creation and the fall to Enoch:

• Chapter 24 – God created visible from invisible.
• Chapter 26 – An invisible thing (Adiol) descends and God commands it to disintegrate. A great light comes from this creature; the great light becomes the “great age” of creation. God established his throne in this creation.
• Chapter 27-28 – God creates water and land from the light and darkness. Seven circles are established for seven stars. This is the first day of the creation week.
• Chapter 29 – On Monday (the second day) God fashions rock from the fiery substance of heaven. On this day Satanail falls, he was hurled out of heaven and is now flying around in the air above the bottomless pit.
• Chapter 30 – On Tuesday (the third day) God commands the earth to create trees and grasses; God laid out paradise as a garden. Enoch On Wednesday (the fourth day) God establishes the stars, sun and moon in the various circles of the heavens. On Thursday he commands the seas to bring forth fish and birds. On Friday God creates Man out of seven components with seven properties. Man was assigned to the earth as a second angel, to reign as a king. He was named Adam and given free will to either love God or hate him (30:15).
• Chapter 31 – Adam is given a single task but the devil entered paradise and corrupted Eve. This devil did not speak to Adam, therefore it is on account of Eve the Lord curses mankind. This is obviously at odds with Romans 5:12-21 where Adam is blamed for death and sin, Eve is not mentioned.
• Chapter 32 – Adam is removed from the garden after his transgression (after only five and a half hours!)
• Chapter 33 – Enoch is told there will be 7000 years of human existence, with an eighth thousand with not days, months, or years (probably an eternal state.) Presumably there will be one thousand for each of the days of creation. The idea of seven creational days = 7000 years of human history crosses over into Christianity via the Epistle of Barnabas but is not found in the Bible.
• Chapter 34 – The judgment of the flood on the sinner who accepted a different yoke than the Lord’s yoke. The sins listed here are fornication and sodomy.
• Chapter 35 – God promises to allow one righteous man from Enoch’s line to survive the flood for the purpose of passing along the words of Enoch.
• Chapter 36 – Enoch is commanded to live for thirty days on the earth for the purpose of passing on the wisdom he has learned during his heavenly journeys.
• Chapter 36 – Enoch is returned to earth by one of the senior angels.

While this section claims to survey human history from creation to the flood, the point is to exhort the reader to moral living in the light of imminent judgment. Creation is the basis for morality, sin is not the normal state, nor is sin the fault of Adam (Eve is to blame; Satan is to blame; but not Adam). While God will surely judge the sinner, he offers salvation for the one committed to following his commands. These commands make up the bulk of the rest of the book. There are some obvious differences from the biblical text with respect to salvation history in 2 Enoch, primarily in Adam’s culpability for the fall. Even in Genesis Adam is held ultimately responsible; Romans 5:12-21 and 1 Corinthians 15:24 make clear it was through Adam sin entered the world. To shift the blame to the woman exalts Adam.

 

[TomL]

He who was sent



Isaiah 48:12–16 (LEB) — 12 “Listen to me, Jacob, and Israel, whom I called: I am he. I am the first; also I am the last. 13 Indeed, my hand founded the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they stand in position together. 14 Assemble, all of you, and hear! Who among them declared these things? Yahweh loves him; he shall perform his wish against Babylon and his arm against the Chaldeans. 15 I, I myself, I have spoken! Indeed, I have called him. I have brought him, and he will be successful in his way. 16 Draw near to me; hear this! I have not spoken in secrecy from the beginning; from the time it came to be, there I have been; And now the Lord Yahweh has sent me and his Spirit.”



He who is the first and the last, He who founded the earth and spread out the heavens, He who called Jacob and Israel, he who says I am he was sent by the lord Yahweh along with his spirit

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

oh my. you found the wrong Jesus, the New World NT and OT. This makes you the blind leading the blind. Do you have a real argument to follow rather than this gibberish? Nothing you share even suggests you trust scriptures or the God who gave us the real scriptures. You have even been a witness to how these people like Peterlag and runningman fail to give sufficient alternative explanations to the passages that point out the deity of Christ. At some point, you should be noting that their conception is unsupported.

I believe I have given valid, clear, and thorough arguments based on Scripture and reason.
I believe @Runningman and @Peterlag have done the same.
I believe you have failed to give those kind of arguments.

You don’t share my opinion. That’s fine.

 

[Peterlag]

I believe I have given valid, clear, and thorough arguments based on Scripture and reason.
I believe @Runningman and @Peterlag have done the same.
I believe you have failed to give those kind of arguments.

You don’t share my opinion. That’s fine.

I have given a ton of data showing the Trinity is not from God. What the Trinity folks do is take what I post and say nope that's not true so try again. Try to really answer the question as to why you say you don't believe Jesus emptied himself. Here I will post it again...

The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.

For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.

Kenotic Trinitarians claim that Jesus put off or limited His God nature, but that theology only developed to try to reconcile some of the verses about what Christ experienced on the earth. The idea that God can limit what He knows or experiences as God is not taught or explained in Scripture, and Kenotic Trinitarianism has been rejected by orthodox Trinitarians for exactly that reason. The very simple way to explain the “difficult verses” that Kenotic Trinitarians are trying to explain about Christ’s human experiences is to realize that Jesus was a fully human being, and not both God and man at the same time. Some assert we have to take the Trinity “by faith” but that is not biblical either.

 

[MTMattie]

I believe I have given valid, clear, and thorough arguments based on Scripture and reason.
I believe @Runningman and @Peterlag have done the same.
I believe you have failed to give those kind of arguments.

You don’t share my opinion. That’s fine.

No.

 

[MTMattie]

I have given a ton of data showing the Trinity is not from God. What the Trinity folks do is take what I post and say nope that's not true so try again. Try to really answer the question as to why you say you don't believe Jesus emptied himself. Here I will post it again...

The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.

For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.

Kenotic Trinitarians claim that Jesus put off or limited His God nature, but that theology only developed to try to reconcile some of the verses about what Christ experienced on the earth. The idea that God can limit what He knows or experiences as God is not taught or explained in Scripture, and Kenotic Trinitarianism has been rejected by orthodox Trinitarians for exactly that reason. The very simple way to explain the “difficult verses” that Kenotic Trinitarians are trying to explain about Christ’s human experiences is to realize that Jesus was a fully human being, and not both God and man at the same time. Some assert we have to take the Trinity “by faith” but that is not biblical either.

So many Ignored questions That applies to all of you.

Was Jesus tempted? You say no. Then how could one command and demand a mortal human being to not do whatever when they had zero comprehension of what was causing that person to sin? Wait... I know, I know I know....

Bible says Jesus was tempted in all ways, yet without sin.

Bible also says that 1 Cor 13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

How exactly could such a provision be made if He did not know what the human was going through.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ...................................I KNOW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Joe told us. Dont. Just dont.

Tell yourself dont and all will be well as you have a kumbaya moment making smores.

It has all been spelled out in the bible. If you chose not to understand that is fine.

But stop repeatedly saying it is not there.

Why don't you start a more interesting idea then the no trinity thing and say that the savior has yet to be born because his birth
is not recorded in the bible, and how his Mother managed to get pregnant is also not recorded.

I mean... "The Holy Spirit will come upon her.

What does that even mean??????

You could start a whole new movement with new followers just by talking about what is not said in the bible.

An angel told Mary? An angel told Joseph... in a dream.

Mary got a real message from Gabriel.

Was Josephs real or just from his mind?

What proof do we have that the conception happened as has been written cause there are no specifics.

The Trinity is real.

I do not care if you do or dont believe it.

 

[Peterlag]

So many Ignored questions That applies to all of you.

Was Jesus tempted? You say no. Then how could one command and demand a mortal human being to not do whatever when they had zero comprehension of what was causing that person to sin? Wait... I know, I know I know....

Bible says Jesus was tempted in all ways, yet without sin.

Bible also says that 1 Cor 13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

How exactly could such a provision be made if He did not know what the human was going through.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ...................................I KNOW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Joe told us. Dont. Just dont.

Tell yourself dont and all will be well as you have a kumbaya moment making smores.

It has all been spelled out in the bible. If you chose not to understand that is fine.

But stop repeatedly saying it is not there.

Why don't you start a more interesting idea then the no trinity thing and say that the savior has yet to be born because his birth
is not recorded in the bible, and how his Mother managed to get pregnant is also not recorded.

I mean... "The Holy Spirit will come upon her.

What does that even mean??????

You could start a whole new movement with new followers just by talking about what is not said in the bible.

An angel told Mary? An angel told Joseph... in a dream.

Mary got a real message from Gabriel.

Was Josephs real or just from his mind?

What proof do we have that the conception happened as has been written cause there are no specifics.

The Trinity is real.

I do not care if you do or dont believe it.

Well, since you brought it up let's look at it. Was Jesus tempted? The answer is yes. Can God be tempted? The answer is no.

 

[synergy]

Well, since you brought it up let's look at it. Was Jesus tempted? The answer is yes. Can God be tempted? The answer is no.

You forget that Jesus is also Human. That's where you go wrong with your thinking.

 

[civic]

You forget that Jesus is also Human. That's where you go wrong with your thinking.

ditto

 

[mikesw]

I believe I have given valid, clear, and thorough arguments based on Scripture and reason.
I believe @Runningman and @Peterlag have done the same.
I believe you have failed to give those kind of arguments.

You don’t share my opinion. That’s fine.

I've waited to see when Runningman and Peterlag give coherent reasons of denying the verses about the deity of Christ. So it is hard to understand what you found as an argument. They even say they know Trinitarian concepts really well, but they do not go through and methodologically address significant aspects of the verses pointing to Christ's deity.
Also, your findings are set against the message of Christianity, so it is not odd that you follow people not understanding of this issue.

 

[synergy]

I believe I have given valid, clear, and thorough arguments based on Scripture and reason.

If you don't mind, could you briefly list out what those arguments are, with supporting Bible verses? Please limit the list to your 3 best arguments and permit us to critique them.

 

[mikesw]

I've waited to see when Runningman and Peterlag give coherent reasons of denying the verses about the deity of Christ. So it is hard to understand what you found as an argument. They even say they know Trinitarian concepts really well, but they do not go through and methodologically address significant aspects of the verses pointing to Christ's deity.
Also, your findings are set against the message of Christianity, so it is not odd that you follow people not understanding of this issue.

It is interesting that @Studyman also is aligned with @Pancho Frijoles as I note his incorrect doctrines about the law (even if I have thought at times he sounded okay). This set of his other incorrect doctrines is what seems to happen with people who deny the Trinitarian doctrine.
People should be able to work out there understanding of scriptures with others. So hopefully that can happen. But we mostly see people who have dug in their heels. Of course, that is often why people have joined a forum -- because they want to share ideas they hold strongly
May grace abound in our Lord Jesus Christ.