Jesus denied being God

[Runningman]

Matthew 3:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Not so fast. They are describing the "Holy Spirit" visually appearing in the form of a dove. God doesn't look like a dove.

Luke 3
22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

 

[TomL]

Not so fast. They are describing the "Holy Spirit" visually appearing in the form of a dove. God doesn't look like a dove.

Luke 3
22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

Yes and you questioned about a dove representing God

Here there is imagery of a dove

 

[Runningman]

Yes and you questioned about a dove representing God

Here there is imagery of a dove

So Matthew 3:16,17 isn't a verse where the Trinity is present.

 

[MTMattie]

Funny isn't it?

The same verses and the same scriptures are repeated over and over again.

Some get answers and others are ignored.

Why would anyone keep asking what God looks like when we have been told no one has seen Him..

John 1:18

New Living Translation
No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.


English Standard Version
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
Berean Standard Bible
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.

Berean Literal Bible
No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.

NASB 1995
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

NASB 1977
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
Legacy Standard Bible
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Amplified Bible
No one has seen God [His essence, His divine nature] at any time; the [One and] only begotten God [that is, the unique Son] who is in the intimate presence of the Father, He has explained Him [and interpreted and revealed the awesome wonder of the Father].

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”

Contemporary English Version
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.
Complete Jewish Bible
No one has ever seen God; but the only and unique Son, who is identical with God and is at the Father’s side — he has made him known.

Good News Translation
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is the same as God and is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

International Standard Version
No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.
Peshitta
No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”
AND

Greek Interlinear

18 Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν

God no one has seen every yet ; thee only begotten God the (one) being
εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο .

in the bosom of the Father, He has made [Him] known.

​

 

[TomL]

So Matthew 3:16,17 isn't a verse where the Trinity is present.

I would say you are in denial

Matthew 3:16–17 (LEB) — 16 Now after he was baptized, Jesus immediately went up from the water, and behold, the heavens opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove coming upon him. 17 And behold, there was a voice from heaven saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”


There is Jesus

There is the Spirit

and there is the one of whom Jesus is son - i.e. the Father

Yep you are in denial

 

[TomL]

Funny isn't it?

The same verses and the same scriptures are repeated over and over again.

Some get answers and others are ignored.

Why would anyone keep asking what God looks like when we have been told no one has seen Him..

John 1:18

New Living Translation
No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.


English Standard Version
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
Berean Standard Bible
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.

Berean Literal Bible
No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.

NASB 1995
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

NASB 1977
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
Legacy Standard Bible
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Amplified Bible
No one has seen God [His essence, His divine nature] at any time; the [One and] only begotten God [that is, the unique Son] who is in the intimate presence of the Father, He has explained Him [and interpreted and revealed the awesome wonder of the Father].

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”

Contemporary English Version
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.
Complete Jewish Bible
No one has ever seen God; but the only and unique Son, who is identical with God and is at the Father’s side — he has made him known.

Good News Translation
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is the same as God and is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

International Standard Version
No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.
Peshitta
No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”
AND

Greek Interlinear

18 Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν

God no one has seen every yet ; thee only begotten God the (one) being
εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο .

in the bosom of the Father, He has made [Him] known.

​

Because they do not desire to see the truth

 

[Runningman]

I would say you are in denial

Matthew 3:16–17 (LEB) — 16 Now after he was baptized, Jesus immediately went up from the water, and behold, the heavens opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove coming upon him. 17 And behold, there was a voice from heaven saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”


There is Jesus

There is the Spirit

and there is the one of whom Jesus is son - i.e. the Father

Yep you are in denial

God isn't in the bodily form of a dove.

Luke 3​

22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”​

Need I remind you concerning idolatry?

Romans 1​

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.​

 

[MTMattie]

Because they do not desire to see the truth

Or perhaps they are being kept in the dark following false teachers and such

 

[TomL]

God isn't in the bodily form of a dove.

Luke 3​

22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”​

The Holy Spirit descended

Matthew 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

hello

may I remind you not to translation shop

Matthew 3:16 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;

Need I remind you concerning idolatry?

Romans 1​

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.​

Like, or as but not the bodily form of a dove

which you either translation shopped or made up

I have over a 100 and did not see one that reads that way (i looked briefly as so many read as I stated)

So identify the translation

 

[MTMattie]

God isn't in the bodily form of a dove.

Luke 3​

22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”​

Need I remind you concerning idolatry?

Romans 1​

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.​

Nope... The Holy Spirit was.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

You would have maybe preferred a fairy dancing on down to land on Jesus like the gentle dove did?

 

[MTMattie]

God isn't in the bodily form of a dove.

Luke 3​

22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”​

Need I remind you concerning idolatry?

Romans 1​

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.​

And the Dove decended and landed on Jesus.... the voice saing this is my beloved son came from the heavens.

Now... if it was a parrot that landed on Jesus you might have A case that it threw it's voice to the clouds.... but get real

 

[civic]

Funny isn't it?

The same verses and the same scriptures are repeated over and over again.

Some get answers and others are ignored.

Why would anyone keep asking what God looks like when we have been told no one has seen Him..

John 1:18

New Living Translation
No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.


English Standard Version
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
Berean Standard Bible
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.

Berean Literal Bible
No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.

NASB 1995
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

NASB 1977
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
Legacy Standard Bible
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Amplified Bible
No one has seen God [His essence, His divine nature] at any time; the [One and] only begotten God [that is, the unique Son] who is in the intimate presence of the Father, He has explained Him [and interpreted and revealed the awesome wonder of the Father].

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”

Contemporary English Version
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.
Complete Jewish Bible
No one has ever seen God; but the only and unique Son, who is identical with God and is at the Father’s side — he has made him known.

Good News Translation
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is the same as God and is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

International Standard Version
No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.
Peshitta
No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”
AND

Greek Interlinear

18 Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν

God no one has seen every yet ; thee only begotten God the (one) being
εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο .

in the bosom of the Father, He has made [Him] known.

​

Amen

 

[MTMattie]

The Holy Spirit descended

Matthew 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

hello

may I remind you not to translation shop

Matthew 3:16 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;




Like, or as but not the bodily form of a dove

which you either translation shopped or made up

I have over a 100 and did not see one that reads that way (i looked briefly as so many read as I stated)

So identify the translation

I always provide translations. But I have nothing to hide.

As I wrote yesterday if he is not following the JW bible but a Unitarian one... there are scads of Unitarian translations just like the Protestant that
he would favor.

But he never gives his sources..... ever

 

[MTMattie]

God isn't in the bodily form of a dove.

Luke 3​

22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”​

Need I remind you concerning idolatry?

Romans 1​

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.​

If you do not give us the translation you use for debating, then go away and let the big boys debate.

God, is a spirit. Therefor unless he is on this earth he has no form.

 

[Runningman]

The Holy Spirit descended

Matthew 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

hello

may I remind you not to translation shop

Matthew 3:16 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;




Like, or as but not the bodily form of a dove

which you either translation shopped or made up

I have over a 100 and did not see one that reads that way (i looked briefly as so many read as I stated)

So identify the translation

God isn't in the image of a dove. You're imagining a third person in this case when there is not, but rather a thing that anointed and empowered Jesus. Open your eyes to Acts 10 and see if that clears it up for you.

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

 

[Runningman]

And the Dove decended and landed on Jesus.... the voice saing this is my beloved son came from the heavens.

Now... if it was a parrot that landed on Jesus you might have A case that it threw it's voice to the clouds.... but get real

Against Paul's warning in Romans 1:21-23, if I understand you correctly, you have taken the side of idolatry and believe you can represent God with a bird? Hello Mr. Mattie. There isn't a Trinity. That's what we are getting at here.

 

[Runningman]

If you do not give us the translation you use for debating, then go away and let the big boys debate.

God, is a spirit. Therefor unless he is on this earth he has no form.

Nice to see you have unblocked me. I missed you too! I'm using a translation called the Berean Standard Bible, a Trinitarian version I might add, that is Bible Hub's default Bible translation for Scripture.

 

[Runningman]

I always provide translations. But I have nothing to hide.

As I wrote yesterday if he is not following the JW bible but a Unitarian one... there are scads of Unitarian translations just like the Protestant that
he would favor.

But he never gives his sources..... ever

I provide a direct link to the translation and website I copied it from in all of my posts. Mouse-over the verse number in my comments.. you'll see it in all of my posts. That's the problem with slandering others... you better have your ducks in a row or it'll backfire in your face and make you look bad, publicly, like how it is right now. Don't worry, I forgive you.

 

[TomL]

Or perhaps they are being kept in the dark following false teachers and such

yes but it is their choice

God isn't in the image of a dove. You're imagining a third person in this case when there is not, but rather a thing that anointed and empowered Jesus. Open your eyes to Acts 10 and see if that clears it up for you.

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

Again where do you see YHWH being in the form of a dove

Matthew 3:16 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;

BTW this is the Berean study bible an earlier and an updated one


(BSB) As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.
(BSB 1.2) As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.

The Spirit is on earth descending upon Christ and the father is in heaven

Matthew 3:16–17 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

 

[Runningman]

yes but it is their choice

Again where do you see YHWH being in the form of a dove

Matthew 3:16 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;

BTW this is the Berean study bible an earlier and an updated one


(BSB) As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.
(BSB 1.2) As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.

The Spirit is on earth descending upon Christ and the father is in heaven

Matthew 3:16–17 (ESV) — 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

God isn't in the image of a bird, dove, man, statue, etc. The Holy Spirit is just a visual representation of the anointing Jesus received. The one speaking from heaven is God; He's the Father.