Gods Inability to save

All will be judged. All do not hear the gospel however. Until you address that fact I think we are done here. Chasing your rabbit traiks is getting old.

Good talk
Right.
You refuse scripture.
Fine with me...It's God you have to consider.


Now answer me this.

If God desires ALL to be saved:
1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.



Then:
WHY are not all men saved?


I answered YOUR question at least 4 times.

Can you answer MY question at least ONE TIME?
 
First, which I asked first, do you concede millions have never heard the gospel let alone the God of the Bible? I can help if you like. Lol
Funny Presby.

I know you really cannot...
but give it a go.

IF God desires all men to be saved
1 Timothy 2:4

WHY aren't they?


Of course I concede that billions have not heard the gospel.
The problem is that YOU don't HEAR the NT.
 
So not everyone who knows the truth will be saved eh?
no of course not,

not unless they act on the truth..

many who call themselves christians know the truth and will not be saved. They will stand in front of God boasting of all their works. and Jesus will say depart from me for I NEVER KNEW YOU
 
Those that believe do so by grace, not by sinful volition. If and when you can provide me with a verse that explicitly assigns salvific causality to the sinner's volition, I will reconsider.
It takes both, grace and faith.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Grace is God's part; faith is man's part. Calling it sinful volition doesn't change what it is.

Mar 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Believing in God, i.e., faith, comes before being saved.
 
no of course not,

not unless they act on the truth..

many who call themselves christians know the truth and will not be saved. They will stand in front of God boasting of all their works. and Jesus will say depart from me for I NEVER KNEW YOU
You said this EG:

"many who call themselves christians know the truth and will not be saved. They will stand in front of God boasting of all their works. and Jesus will say depart from me for I NEVER KNEW YOU"

Boasting of all their works.....
And Jesus will say...depart from Me, I never knew you.
This is serious stuff EG.
THIS is who Jesus will ask to depart from Him.
HE stated who that will be:

Matthew 7:23
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO
PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Those who PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS will be told to depart.
And what does it mean to PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS?
It means those that do not OBEY God.

And what must we do to OBEY §God?

Here's what JESUS said we must do:

John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all
who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those
who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


Those who did good deeds/works to a resurrection of LIFE.


It would be good for you to stop contradicting what JESUS taught.
 
Thank you...very clearly expressed but if "they are incapable of sin." yet they receive the wages of, the judgement upon, sinfulness...it seems slightly unfair and unjust, no?
Well, if you had the opportunity to be in heaven with your savior...or continue in life in this earth... would you choose life?

A baby has experienced nothing. The spirit implanted within the child would ... as Eccl 12:7 put it...then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Only thing dead would be the flesh.

That is not unfair to me... I think that well could be a blessing for I know of our neighbors child born with spina bifida AND cerebral palsy and has lived well into her 40s with the mentality of a 5 year old, never having walked, or even said a coherent word.
 
You said this EG:

"many who call themselves christians know the truth and will not be saved. They will stand in front of God boasting of all their works. and Jesus will say depart from me for I NEVER KNEW YOU"

Boasting of all their works.....
And Jesus will say...depart from Me, I never knew you.
This is serious stuff EG.
THIS is who Jesus will ask to depart from Him.
HE stated who that will be:

Matthew 7:23
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO
PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Those who PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS will be told to depart.
And what does it mean to PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS?
It means those that do not OBEY God.
see what deceivers do. They cut off parts of a conversation. and act as if this proves them right, while refusing to post the whole post. which would prove them wrong

so instead of allowing you to be deceptive. lets look at the whole conversation

21& Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Here is what we know

1. Not everyone who comes and says Lord Lord will enter
2. These people appeared to do the will of God. they professed all their good works they did in Jesus name
3. Jesus said outright. I NEVER KNEW YOU (these people did not lose salvation. they were never saved)
4. They practiced sin

Just like John said in his epistle

1 John 3: 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. (Hence by defenition. Jesus never knew them either)
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1. A child of God can not live in sin.
2. If they can not live in sin, they can not "sin" themselves out of salvation
3. Whoever lives in sin, has never known God and is of the devil

these are the people Jesus spoke about. they may have claimed they were believers. the may have done good works. but they were impostors.
And what must we do to OBEY §God?

Here's what JESUS said we must do:

John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all
who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those
who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


Those who did good deeds/works to a resurrection of LIFE.


It would be good for you to stop contradicting what JESUS taught.
And who does Good deeds?

a good perfect way to show you this twice in one post so you can see and not be able to deny you have been shown

1 John 3: 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

THEY HAVE BEEN BORN OF GOD.

John 5 is descriptive, NOT PRESCRIPTIVE

Sorry sis. I am done being nice. I am sick of being falsely accused. I am sick of a false gospel of self righteousness. And I am sick of people who have a vendetta against Calvin, and try to take this vendetta out on me and my brothers and sister
 
Thank you...very clearly expressed
I appreciate that.
but if "they are incapable of sin." yet they receive the wages of, the judgement upon, sinfulness...it seems slightly unfair and unjust, no?
I believe that would be unfair and unjust (but God is Just), so I believe that infants and the unborn do not receive the wages of sinfulness, because they have not yet sinned. The penalty for sin is only imposed when that individual sins, not just because they have the capacity and propensity to sin.
 
Funny Presby.

I know you really cannot...
but give it a go.

IF God desires all men to be saved
1 Timothy 2:4

WHY aren't they?


Of course I concede that billions have not heard the gospel.
The problem is that YOU don't HEAR the NT.
Because He has not determined to do so. He could if He had determined to do so. Also, as I stated, your presuming all means all without exception. You do not even attempt to make a case for your silly understanding.

Ahh....yet God desires to save them? Why would He not make sure every last person hears the gospel? He could do that no?
 
Right.
You refuse scripture.
Fine with me...It's God you have to consider.


Now answer me this.

If God desires ALL to be saved:
1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.



Then:
WHY are not all men saved?


I answered YOUR question at least 4 times.

Can you answer MY question at least ONE TIME?
You who is the all in your proof text? LOL Got a post number?
 
Because He has not determined to do so. He could if He had determined to do so. Also, as I stated, your presuming all means all without exception. You do not even attempt to make a case for your silly understanding.

Ahh....yet God desires to save them? Why would He not make sure every last person hears the gospel? He could do that no?
§So God is schizophrenic?

He DESIRES to do so...
but
He has not determined to do so....

OK

You're unable to reply because your THEOLOGY is not biblical,
heretical and blasphemous.

It is not biblical because scripture does not teach what you believe.

It is heretical because it does not teach mainline Christianity.
It is teaching a DIFFERENT gospel.


It is blasphemous because it changes the loving, merciful and just nature of God.
It is blasphemous because, by stating that God created evil and determines everything that will happen,
your theology attributes to §God the works of satan.
 
§So God is schizophrenic?

He DESIRES to do so...
but
He has not determined to do so....

OK

You're unable to reply because your THEOLOGY is not biblical,
heretical and blasphemous.

It is not biblical because scripture does not teach what you believe.

It is heretical because it does not teach mainline Christianity.
It is teaching a DIFFERENT gospel.


It is blasphemous because it changes the loving, merciful and just nature of God.
It is blasphemous because, by stating that God created evil and determines everything that will happen,
your theology attributes to §God the works of satan.
Who is the all in your proof text?

I will keep asking.

Why does God not make sure every last person hears the gospel since He loves them and desires ther salvation?

I will keep asking

Attacking me does not justify the ignorance of your view and your inability to answer simple elementary questions.
 
Who is the all in your proof text?

I will keep asking.

Why does God not make sure every last person hears the gospel since He loves them and desires ther salvation?

I will keep asking

Attacking me does not justify the ignorance of your view and your inability to answer simple elementary questions.
:sleep::sleep::sleep:
 
No further comment to you.
§When you understand what YOUR theology is....
come back and we'll discuss.
Who is the all in your proof text?

How come God does not make sure every last person is given the opportunity to believe given He loves them and desires their salvation?

Going once.........
 
Let's do better than the above posts.

1d.
No chats that deteriorate into petty bickering, gossip, backbiting, or argumentative bantering.

2. No Flaming, Goading, Gaslighting or Harassment.

2a. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.
 
More doctrinal presuppositions at work in your response.
Prove it.
The fact is God doesn’t save everyone.
That is true.
A major problem in Monergism which contradicts so many passages about God willing, wanting and desiring to save but does not interfere with man’s willingness to come.
That is not true. It's apparent from the beginning of this op you do not correctly understand monergism. I have noted some of these misrepresentations from the beginning of this thread and every single observation has been ignored. You are not actually arguing against monergism. You're arguing a strawman AND refusing to entertain the possibility of any correction so that you might have a reasonable, rational, exegetical response to what monergism actually teaches. This op attacks a boogeyman.
That’s why synergism is the biblical model and the early church model.
That is not true, either.

The Church took a few hundred years to settle on a set of positions regarding soteriology. That is a fact. During that time there was a fair amount of diversity on the subject. That, too, is a fact. Sadly, And I say this to everyone's shame, including my own past conduct, each side tends to use Church history selectively and assert only the sources that support their side. That is a fact. That is why appeals to "biblical model" and "early church model" get made.

So, stick to scripture and scripture alone, and scripture well-rendered. Otherwise I will call you on the baloney every time it gets posted.
The fact is Gods chosen/ elect people rejected Him to many times to count inspite of His love, mercy and grace most died in unbelief and rejecting their God.
And yet the elect, nonetheless, got saved. This is a huge gaping hole of inconsistency in the case you've presented, and you are not engaging what has been brought to bear on this op. We're twenty pages into this thread and still haven't read a word about matters brought up at the beginning. You have been asked to prove many of your won claims and refused to do so. Where is the proof monergism teaches divine inability? Nowhere! Where is the example of a non-saved sinner initiating his/her own coming to God for salvation absent God having already been at work in that individual? Nowhere! Where is the evidence of someone getting saved outside of a God-initiated Christological covenant? Nowhere? Where is the proof belief is not by grace? Where is the proof belief is stated in scripture to be a function of the sinfully dead and enslaved unregenerate non-believer's volition? Nowhere! Where is the response to the categorical error you made applying Hebrews 7:25 and 2 Peter 3:9 to the sinfully enslaved and dead, unregenerate non-believer when both texts explicitly state they are written about the already-saved and regenerate believer? Nowhere! Where is the response in which you address your own contradictory use of Acts 7:51 in which you argued the "stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears" resist the Spirit. They cannot simultaneously resist and come. That is prima facie self-refutation. Where is the response? Nowhere!
I’m at work I’ll address these tonight
I have been waiting for twenty pages and see nothing fixing any if those errors. The entire thread is a strawman made of other logical fallacies and eisegetic errors. What you're arguing against is not monergism.
 
It takes both, grace and faith.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Grace is God's part; faith is man's part. Calling it sinful volition doesn't change what it is.

Mar 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Yep. And both grace and faith are gifts from God, and gifts from God given specifically for the purpose of salvation. Post the entirety of the passage, not just the portion of the passage eisegetically imagined to support synergism.

Ephesians 2:1-13
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace, you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands— remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

The entire passage is written about the already regenerate and saved believer. There is not a single word in the entire passage about any non-believer. Each statement has God, not the still-sinfully enslaved and dead unregenerate non-believer's volitional agency, assigned as the cause. The text explicitly states the grace and faith do not have anything to do with the saved person's faculties. Being alive in Christ is predicated on God's mercy and Romans 9 tells us the mercy of God is not dependent on how a person wills or how a person works, but it is solely dependent upon the will and purpose of God. The passage states we are God's workmanship. The passage states we are created in Christ to perform works God had planned for us to do before we ever got saved. The passage explicitly states the Gentiles were brought to Christ. They did not come on their own. There is not a single word explicitly attributing anything to the sinfully dead and enslaved unregenerate sinner. And what most synergism ignore and leave out is the fact that everything written about the saints of the epistolary inescapably occurs within monergistically God-initiated Christological covenant.

I am going to repeat that: There is not a single word written in the Bible about a saved person that does not occur within the context of a monergistically God-initiated Christological covenant. Every single word a synergist posts in neglect of that fact is a misrepresentation of whole scripture.
Believing in God, i.e., faith, comes before being saved.
Nope. Correlation is not causation.
 
Yep. And both grace and faith are gifts from God, and gifts from God given specifically for the purpose of salvation. Post the entirety of the passage, not just the portion of the passage eisegetically imagined to support synergism.

Ephesians 2:1-13
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace, you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands— remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

The entire passage is written about the already regenerate and saved believer. There is not a single word in the entire passage about any non-believer. Each statement has God, not the still-sinfully enslaved and dead unregenerate non-believer's volitional agency, assigned as the cause. The text explicitly states the grace and faith do not have anything to do with the saved person's faculties. Being alive in Christ is predicated on God's mercy and Romans 9 tells us the mercy of God is not dependent on how a person wills or how a person works, but it is solely dependent upon the will and purpose of God. The passage states we are God's workmanship. The passage states we are created in Christ to perform works God had planned for us to do before we ever got saved. The passage explicitly states the Gentiles were brought to Christ. They did not come on their own. There is not a single word explicitly attributing anything to the sinfully dead and enslaved unregenerate sinner. And what most synergism ignore and leave out is the fact that everything written about the saints of the epistolary inescapably occurs within monergistically God-initiated Christological covenant.

I am going to repeat that: There is not a single word written in the Bible about a saved person that does not occur within the context of a monergistically God-initiated Christological covenant. Every single word a synergist posts in neglect of that fact is a misrepresentation of whole scripture.
With all due respect, that is an absolutely horrible analysis. It may well be that the entire passage is written about the already regenerate and the saved believer. But that does not mean that nothing in it is the description about those very same regenerated and saved believers before they were regenerated and saved.

Go back to Ephesians 1.

Eph 1:1-14

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.


And yet, Paul says there in that last sentence, "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory."

There is no rational analysis of that other than having heard the word of truth, the gospel of salvation and having believed in him had to have occurred prior to being sealed with the Holy Spirit, i.e., regenerated and saved.

That is clearly not monergism!!!
 
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