Yeah I get it. You are a Calvinist and therefore have no biblical knowledge of foreknowledge, predestination, justification, regeneration, or soteriology generally. It is so sad. Nevertheless, I do think that you love God and really want to be one of His.
His People He foreknew !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
TibiasDad
Active Member
There is a lot of merit to what you say here; and it is something that I have strongly considered adopting as my own perspective, especially that spiritual death is precisely what we derived from the consequences of Adam’s actions.
I do think that physical death was probably an eventual outcome, but that it was, perhaps, accelerated, especially after the flood.
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
No you dont get it. For God to foreknow a individual and to have omniscience of a person are not the same. See Jesus knows with omniscience everything about these individuals Matt 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Is He speaking about omniscience here ? NO
You are correct. He was not speaking about His omniscience in that verse. But neither is Jesus speaking about His foreknowledge in that verse.
brightfame52
Active Member
@Jim
Correct, so His foreknowledge isnt His Omniscience. Foreknow is the same greek word for know, just has the prefix [before] added to it,
Rom 11:2
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying
Here is the greek word proginōskō its combined with the prep pro which simply means before, and the verb ginōskō
Now the word knew in Matt 7 23 is the same greek word
ginōskō
The only difference is that it doesnt have the prep pro attached to it, which only means b4. So He is saying, at not time did i know you. They were not His People is what that means.
Foreknow is limited to His People, nothing to do with omniscience. See He knows them that are His 2 Tim 2 19
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Jn 10:14
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Jesus foreknows only His Sheep, His People, but to them in Matt 7:23 he was not at anytime their Shepherd, He never knew them like that.
Correct, so His foreknowledge isnt His Omniscience. Foreknow is the same greek word for know, just has the prefix [before] added to it,
Rom 11:2
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying
Here is the greek word proginōskō its combined with the prep pro which simply means before, and the verb ginōskō
Now the word knew in Matt 7 23 is the same greek word
ginōskō
The only difference is that it doesnt have the prep pro attached to it, which only means b4. So He is saying, at not time did i know you. They were not His People is what that means.
Foreknow is limited to His People, nothing to do with omniscience. See He knows them that are His 2 Tim 2 19
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Jn 10:14
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Jesus foreknows only His Sheep, His People, but to them in Matt 7:23 he was not at anytime their Shepherd, He never knew them like that.
You are hopelessly bound to the errors of Augustine/Calvin. So much so that you cannot reach a proper understanding of God's word. Sad, terribly sad. But, unfortunately, that is the fate of all who tie their understanding to Augustine and Calvin rather that what God has actually declared in His word.
brightfame52
Active Member
This thread is about a terrible mistranslation of the KJV.
You are emphasising spiritual death over physical death to avoid accepting the verse refers to physical death because then their liability to death must mean that they are sinful at conception. There is no distinction in the verse that death is the wages for sin about which kind of death is meant but I bet the disciples knew it meant their physical death or spiritual death would have been specifically mentioned.
No that is not why I reject physical as the wages of sin. I only look to see what God said way back in the Genesis account of creation. There were two identified trees placed in the garden. Those were the Tree of knowledge of good and evil and the Tree of life. It is well known what the result was of eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; however, the result of eating the fruit of the tree of life is seldom if ever discussed. We learn what that is by what is lost when Adam and Ever are sent out of the garden.
Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever--"
Clearly, the fruit of the tree of life had the power to kept Adam and Eve from dying physically. In other words, the natural condition of creation was that physical death was an integral feature of that creation. Without the benefit of eating the fruit of the tree of life, Adam and Eve will suffer physical death. And since entrance to the garden was closed, all those living outside and having no access to the fruit of the tree of life will naturally suffer physical death as it has been so appointed (Heb 9:27).
