Glory to the Son

[MatthewG]

What kind of a Bible do you need to get the verses directly from Jesus's lips? Is that like the audio Bible? Where do you download that one?

Don’t know.

But the good new is that studying the Bible helps us avoid theological error. The Bible tells us, "Watch your life and doctrine closely" (1 Timothy 4:16), adding that we "must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine" (Titus 2:1).

Yes, as long as one is applying the Holy Spirit of Yahava and allowing Christ in them, to move them to doing the next thing, which is ultimately for the benefit of another though at a cost of our own life. To go and do good to your neighbor in agape love, which Yahavah expresses by and through showing his love for us by sending his son.

If the Bible is our authority for faith and life, then the inspired words it contains will help us to avoid error.

The bible has no authority, and it was not written to us specifically. While some things are inspired by God through the writings of the Old Testament, not everything in it is inspired by Yahavah. Such as the people of Israel sacrificing their children to Molech. There is some decernment in what you are suggesting. While I believe the Bible can be trust worthy, it is something that has been copied on copies of copies… some things could have slipped in there that are not authentic or inspired by God…

The Bible in general is a reference guide to spiritual life.

In a pluralistic world with many religious and non-religious ideas competing for attention, studying the Bible provides us with a firm foundation in God's truth rather than the errors of the world.

Not always, people can accept man made ideas by and through virtue of scripture… doesn’t make it true, or what Yahavah could be portrayed to be as, which could be the most horrible version (in my opinion), far right field, in a God that elects only certain people in this lifetime and sends everyone else to hell to burn for his glory… and he chose to do this and continues to send 95% of the population in the lake of fire all burning alive for his glory…

Knowing the Bible also helps us respond to error and answer questions that skeptics and others may have about it, which Civic is great at doing.

Knowing God, is much more than knowing the Bible. It is life eternal to seek after the true God and the one whom he had sent in knowing them. The Bible doesn’t contain all the answers and when going through the scripture it’s believed by most it is needed to go through the scripture by the Holy Spirit of Yahavah.

Any teaching that goes on to be dogmatic, forced upon people in to acceptance such as the trinity, is wrong for presupposing it upon them. It’s a mystery and incomprehensible… why believe something like this?

Why not try to know God by seeking him out in spirit and in truth, while I believe yes Yeshua was the Word of God, he is the expressed image of his Father by virtue of Yahavah working in and through his Word, by the Spirit in order to get the will of Yahavah done, which was a willingly work all together for Yeshua…

I have no issues with Civic. He is free to believe how he will, even if he does believe that Jesus is Yahavah, while I see that is incorrect, in aspect of Jesus being his Father himself, and not being the Word of God which comes forth from the Father…

I don’t see how God can die, let alone the cross. But the Word of God was silenced for three days for the promise which Yeshua had spoken by virtue of his Father, in dying by giving up his life on a choice which he didn’t have to do…

Yahavah and His Son… man they both have my utmost respect, and honor. But I’m not gonna honor manmade doctrine teachings.

 

[Studyman]

There was a guy named Matt Slick, who ran a website named c.a.r.m. Intellectual and witty, I came to find out he was autistic. There are highly leveling functioning autistic and low functioning like the client at the house I work in. Sometimes, when taught something it’s hard to let go, and move and change especially when it something that is true…

Like recently thinking about Yahavah forsaking his Son on the cross, and what was the purpose of this being so? That type of thinking may lead one to think of an abusive Father who left his Child… but that is only the earthly spectrum of thinking, and of the flesh, and not of the spirit…

Well, to be truthful, most religious men on this earth imply that God's Laws were a Yoke of Bondage, and that Jesus had to come as save us from Him and His commandments. So "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, already consider God as an abusive father.

For me, it's a testament to the humanness and mortality of Jesus. It gives me Hope that in my darkness moments, when I fear for my very life, I can know such emotions are not a lack of Faith, rather, proof of my Need for God even when it seems HE has left me.

As it is also written;

"Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Even though it might seem God has forsaken me, I can know He hears me even as HE heard His own Son.

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Even so, as you stated there is no new thing under the sun, there is a certain flux of new spiritual revelation can come by and through abiding in the Lord Yeshua, and desiring to comprehend when you are reading the letters and the gospel, asking the Father to help us by the spirit to understand and come to as close as truth as one can get.

While the whole trinity thing was something I use to believe, until reading the Gospels and learning more about whom Yahavah was, and whom he had sent, changed my whole perspective and perception of what not only Yahavah had done, but what Yahavahs Word made flesh, whom was Immanuel, God with us. Done for behalf of his Father and the world…

Better off no one ever trust anything I say even if I quote the Bible… people have to be encouraged to seek out for the truth and may the truth that is able to set them free in liberty to walk freely in faith and by the spirit and being lead to what Yahavah by his spirit and his will be done with us picking up the cross and dying to ourselves and letting Yahavah within us by his spirit work on our hearts and minds in conforming us into the image of his Son, by virtue of the Spirit of Christ too, living in one’s heart.

Thanks study man.

And that is the Key isn't it. To deny ourselves, our preconceptions, the religious traditions we were born into, and turn to God, to be "Learned of Him" in hope that HE will in turn give us to His High Priest for cleansing.

Hard to do when a man refuses to believe the very Father who Jesus said to be learned of.

Glad to see you back, it's great to see a perspective founded on Scriptures more that religious tradition.

 

[civic]

Well, to be truthful, most religious men on this earth imply that God's Laws were a Yoke of Bondage, and that Jesus had to come as save us from Him and His commandments. So "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, already consider God as an abusive father.

For me, it's a testament to the humanness and mortality of Jesus. It gives me Hope that in my darkness moments, when I fear for my very life, I can know such emotions are not a lack of Faith, rather, proof of my Need for God even when it seems HE has left me.

As it is also written;

"Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Even though it might seem God has forsaken me, I can know He hears me even as HE heard His own Son.

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;



And that is the Key isn't it. To deny ourselves, our preconceptions, the religious traditions we were born into, and turn to God, to be "Learned of Him" in hope that HE will in turn give us to His High Priest for cleansing.

Hard to do when a man refuses to believe the very Father who Jesus said to be learned of.

Glad to see you back, it's great to see a perspective founded on Scriptures more that religious tradition.

Here is a giant NEWSFLASH- for you as well as matthewG

The Holy Spirit NEVER contradicts Scripture.

Sanctify them in TRUTH- THY WORD is TRUTH. The Word of God is Truth. When the Comforter ( Holy Spirit ) comes He will guide you ( the disciples) into all truth. Its was Jesus disciples/apostles who wrote Scripture- Gods word- the TRUTH. The Holy Spirit ALWAYS points a believer To Christ alone.

So from Jesus own words- the TRUTH you do not testify to the Son so I know you do not speak from the Spirit since you do not glorify the Son as Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would do. You only see the Father worthy of glory, honor, praise and worship. The Holy Spirit honors the Son. He points people to the Son, not the Father.

John 15:26
New King James Version
“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

English Standard Version
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

John 16:13-15
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

1 Corinthians 12:1-3
Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

The role/function of the Holy Spirit is misunderstood by many. Some think they speak from he Holy Spirit buts its clear they do not as we can see what Jesus and the Apostles say about His ministry. Some speak as natural men as Paul says below and the disciples prior to Pentecost.

Did the disciples have the SEAL of the Holy Spirit? NO not until PENTECOST.

Ephesians 1
When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

If you have not the Spirit you are none of His.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1 Corinthians 2
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

And here is a newsflash the disciples did not understand so many things prior to Pentecost as Jesus promised He would bring to remembrance the things He had taught them.

John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:7
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

John 16:17-18
At this, some of his disciples said to one another, “What does he mean by saying, ‘In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me,’ and ‘Because I am going to the Father’?” 18 They kept asking, “What does he mean by ‘a little while’? We don’t understand what he is saying.”

Jesus had told them NUMEROUS times about His passion yet they did not understand this until the Spirit was in them. Once again proving 1 Corinthians 2 the natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Jesus Predicts His Death a Third Time

Luke 18:31
Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem,and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him;33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”

34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about

I can provide NUMEROUS other scriptures showing the disciples did not understand Jesus teachings until after Pentecost.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Studyman]

Projecting as you rejecting Christ in the exact same way as the Pharisees that Jesus confronted about His identity as God.

It is fascinating that I can show you, not my words, but the very Jesus "of the Bible's Words" you claim to represent, and you still do not believe Him.

John 10: 36 Say ye of him, whom the "Father" hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the "Son of God"? 37 If I do not the works of "my Father", believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, "and believe", that "the Father" is in me, and I in him.

Matthew 27: 43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, "I am the Son of God".

John 11: 4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory "of God", that the "Son of God" might be glorified thereby.

I know you are a preacher Civic, and you are promoting your religion, and some of what you promote does align with Scriptures. But your preaching that Jesus is God, and not the Son of God, although popular among the Catholic and Protestant religions of this world God placed me in, simply does not reflect what the Jesus "of the Bible" actually teaches about Himself, or His Father. I am posting His Words, and yet you still refuse to accept them it seems. I understand you are angry with me for pointing these things out on a public forum and have compared me to the Pharisees even though I believe what Jesus actually said and that's OK. My hope is that you might consider the Christ's Words, even if it means exposing a manmade doctrine you have adopted. Or perhaps, "especially" if it means exposing a manmade doctrine you are promoting.

Consider John's Inspired Words in closing.

1 John 5: 9 If we receive the witness "of men", the witness "of God" is greater: "for this is the witness of God" which "he hath" testified of "his" Son.

10 He that believeth on "the Son of God" hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record "that God gave" "of his Son". (Rather he has believed the record "man" gave of His Son)

11 And this is the record, that "God hath given to us" eternal life, and this life is in "his Son".

 

[Studyman]

Here is a giant NEWSFLASH- for you as well as matthewG

The Holy Spirit NEVER contradicts Scripture.

This is true my friend, but you do Contradict Scripture. Which means you are not the Holy Spirit. Perhaps if you started with this undeniable truth, and go from there, your perception might change.

Sanctify them in TRUTH- THY WORD is TRUTH. The Word of God is Truth. When the Comforter ( Holy Spirit ) comes He will guide you ( the disciples) into all truth. Its was Jesus disciples/apostles who wrote Scripture- Gods word- the TRUTH. The Holy Spirit ALWAYS points a believer To Christ alone.

Are you then denying Jesus' Own Words in which HE says "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Where does Jesus say Eternal Life is knowing Him "Alone"? Are you not rejecting His Words. "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So from Jesus own words- the TRUTH you do not testify to the Son so I know you do not speak from the Spirit since you do not glorify the Son as Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would do. You only see the Father worthy of glory, honor, praise and worship.

How foolish. Are you saying that because I believe what the Father and HIS Son teaches, and I worship the same ONE TRUE GOD Jesus worshipped and instructed me to Worship, that because of these things I don't Honor the Son? How can I truly know God, and not His Son God Sent? How can I truly know the Son of God, and not know the God who sent Him?

It is these religious philosophies that cause me to understand why Jesus said to "Come out of her".

The Holy Spirit honors the Son. He points people to the Son, not the Father.

John 15:26
New King James Version
“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

Yes, Christ's Father and my Father, which is Spirit, testifies of "His Son".

John 5: 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: (Why? Because HE is not God, but the Son of God) as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

31 If I bear witness of myself, "my witness is not true".

English Standard Version
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

John 16:13-15
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

Yes, the Father Glorifies His Son, not Himself.

15 All that belongs to the Father is mine.

Yes, EVERY MAN who is Learned of the Father, HE gives to His Son.

That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

1 Corinthians 12:1-3
Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

hope this helps !!!

I believe every Scripture you posted Civic. Truly the One True God said to my Savior who this same God gave me to, "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool"

Just because I believe all that is written, but not all that men preach, doesn't make me a projectionist.

 

[civic]

What does glory have to do about, listening to Jesus and what he said to do concerning his Father? To worship Yahavah in spirit and in truth, and that his Father seeks for those who do so in faith… to have relationship with the Father and fellowship with Yahavah and his Son…

Wow, Yahavah and his Word share glories together…


”My God will use his glorious riches to give you everything you need. He will do this through Christ Jesus. Glory to our God and Father forever and ever. Amen.“
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭4‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭ERV‬‬

That doesn’t make Yeshua, His Father, but His Fathers Word made flesh…

You have no right to tell me, I’m doing something wrong when I am not… I might not be a perfect human being, but I try to go by the spirit… and as far as I’m concerned, Yahavah hasn’t pointed out to me that I’m not wrong in following suit after the Son of God, and for the beliefs that are held… I see Yahavahs Word as one together with Yahavah today, but it doesn’t make Yahavahs Word, over Yahavah himself…

We see that also in scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

God says He will not give His glory to anyone.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

God says He will not give His glory to anyone.

Hi, civic!

Such words were pronounced in the context of the cult of idols. Let's read the text:

I am the Lord, that is My name;
and My glory I will not give to another,
nor My praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8)

God shares his glory with Jesus, and not only with Jesus, but He will share it with you as a believer.

GOD SHARES HIS GLORY WITH JESUS I have come in My Father’s name, but you do not receive Me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? (John 5:43)

GOD SHARES HIS GLORY WITH THE BELIEVERS. That you would walk in a manner worthy of God, who has called you to His kingdom and glory. (1 Thes 2:12).

GOD SHARES THE GLORY OF JESUS WITH THE BELIEVERS. To this He called you by our gospel, to obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. (2 Thes 3:14)

Paul calls God the "Father of glory", and specifies that such God is the Father of Jesus Christ.
so that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, (Ephesians 1:17)

All praise, all signs of honor to Jesus Christ, including kneeling down before Him, are done with the purpose of giving glory to His Father.
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philipians 2:10,11)

 

[civic]

Hi, civic!

Such words were pronounced in the context of the cult of idols. Let's read the text:

I am the Lord, that is My name;
and My glory I will not give to another,
nor My praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8)

God shares his glory with Jesus, and not only with Jesus, but He will share it with you as a believer.

GOD SHARES HIS GLORY WITH JESUS I have come in My Father’s name, but you do not receive Me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? (John 5:43)

GOD SHARES HIS GLORY WITH THE BELIEVERS. That you would walk in a manner worthy of God, who has called you to His kingdom and glory. (1 Thes 2:12).

GOD SHARES THE GLORY OF JESUS WITH THE BELIEVERS. To this He called you by our gospel, to obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. (2 Thes 3:14)

Paul calls God the "Father of glory", and specifies that such God is the Father of Jesus Christ.
so that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, (Ephesians 1:17)

All praise, all signs of honor to Jesus Christ, including kneeling down before Him, are done with the purpose of giving glory to His Father.
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philipians 2:10,11)

Is seeing you the same as seeing the Father ?

 

[Believe]

Is seeing you the same as seeing the Father ?

Hopefully when non-believers take a good look at us they will notice there's something different about us. Something to be desired.

One of my favorite verses, and I have a ton of them, is found in Colossians 1:27. Paul wrote it, and it goes, “To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.”

When we share the gospel we share the hope of glory.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Is seeing you the same as seeing the Father ?

No.
The glory is not the same. Still, the Father and Jesus share their glory with you and me, and that's an undeserved privilege!
You and me have been called to be filled with all the fullness of God.

and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. (Ephesians 3:19)

 

[Fred]

No.
The glory is not the same. Still, the Father and Jesus share their glory with you and me, and that's an undeserved privilege!

We are not worshiped in equality with the Father in that all of creation ascribes glory to the Father and to the Son (Revelation 5:13).

 

[Grace ambassador]

We are not worshiped in equality with the Father in that all of creation ascribes glory to the Father and to the Son (Revelation 5:13).

And we know The God Who Has All Authority at The Final Judgment, eh?:

"For The Father Judgeth no man, but hath committed All Judgment unto The Son:​

That all men should honour The Son, even as they honour The Father. He that​

honoureth not The Son honoureth not The Father Which hath sent Him"​

(John 5:22-23 AV):​

"And I saw A Great White Throne, and Him That Sat on it, from Whose Face​

the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.​

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God..." (Revelation 20:11-12 AV)​

Amen.

And So Much More Authoritative Scripture, eh?:

Why The Triune GodHead Is Correct!

 

[civic]

And we know The God Who Has All Authority at The Final Judgment, eh?:

"For The Father Judgeth no man, but hath committed All Judgment unto The Son:​

That all men should honour The Son, even as they honour The Father. He that​

honoureth not The Son honoureth not The Father Which hath sent Him"​

(John 5:22-23 AV):​

"And I saw A Great White Throne, and Him That Sat on it, from Whose Face​

the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.​

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God..." (Revelation 20:11-12 AV)​

Amen.

And So Much More Authoritative Scripture, eh?:

Why The Triune GodHead Is Correct!

Yes indeed !!!

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

We are not worshiped in equality with the Father in that all of creation ascribes glory to the Father and to the Son (Revelation 5:13).

And that's why "receiving glory" does not equal "being God".
You are given the glory of Christ, but you are not Christ. Christ is given the glory of God, but Christ is not God.

In the end, the purpose is that everyone glorifies the Father, who does not receive his glory from any superior instance. He is the "Father of Glory" and the "God of Jesus Christ". If you confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord of your life, you do it to glorify His Father. That's your aim and purpose.

and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil 2.11)

the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, (Eph 1:17)

 

[civic]

And that's why "receiving glory" does not equal "being God".
You are given the glory of Christ, but you are not Christ. Christ is given the glory of God, but Christ is not God.

In the end, the purpose is that everyone glorifies the Father, who does not receive his glory from any superior instance. He is the "Father of Glory" and the "God of Jesus Christ". If you confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord of your life, you do it to glorify His Father. That's your aim and purpose.

and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil 2.11)

the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, (Eph 1:17)

In heaven only God is worshipped otherwise if anyone or anything other than God is being worshipped and receiving honor and glory its idolatry and a direct violation of Gods first and foremost commandment. God has no equals and especially in heaven.

 

[Fred]

And that's why "receiving glory" does not equal "being God".

It does when it is rendered by all creation.

You are given the glory of Christ, but you are not Christ.

See above.
All creation will not ascribe glory to me in equality with the Father.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

It does when it is rendered by all creation.

The purpose of honoring Christ is not Christ Himself.
As the Scripture shows, it is about obeying and glorifying God, His Father.

To understand this better, let's reflect on the analogy on how kings used to honor a conqueror, an ambassador, some one executing a great task.

For example, we have in the Book of Esther the example of the Persian King who wanted to honor Mardocei.
He calls in Haman to ask him “What should be done for the man whom the king desires to honor?”
Haman then describes the usual kind of honors of that time. Let's notice what was important was to wear all king formal identification signs:

• Not just garments that look like royal, but the ones the king had himself worn.
• Not just a nice horse that resembled the one from the king, but the very same horse the king had ridden.
• Not just a good-looking crown, but the royal insignia itself.
• All of this not in discretion, but as publicly as possible.

“For the man whom the king delights to honor, let royal apparel be brought that the king himself has worn, and a horse on which the king has ridden, which has a royal insignia on its head. 9 Let the apparel and horse for this man be handled by one of the king’s noble officials in order to dress the man whom the king delights to honor, as well as to lead him on horseback throughout the city. Finally, let him proclaim before him, ‘Like this it shall be done for the man whom the king delights to honor.’ ”

 

[Fred]

The purpose of honoring Christ is not Christ Himself.
As the Scripture shows, it is about obeying and glorifying God, His Father.

To understand this better, let's reflect on the analogy on how kings used to honor a conqueror, an ambassador, some one executing a great task.

For example, we have in the Book of Esther the example of the Persian King who wanted to honor Mardocei.
He calls in Haman to ask him “What should be done for the man whom the king desires to honor?”
Haman then describes the usual kind of honors of that time. Let's notice what was important was to wear all king formal identification signs:

• Not just garments that look like royal, but the ones the king had himself worn.
• Not just a nice horse that resembled the one from the king, but the very same horse the king had ridden.
• Not just a good-looking crown, but the royal insignia itself.
• All of this not in discretion, but as publicly as possible.

“For the man whom the king delights to honor, let royal apparel be brought that the king himself has worn, and a horse on which the king has ridden, which has a royal insignia on its head. 9 Let the apparel and horse for this man be handled by one of the king’s noble officials in order to dress the man whom the king delights to honor, as well as to lead him on horseback throughout the city. Finally, let him proclaim before him, ‘Like this it shall be done for the man whom the king delights to honor.’ ”

This is on a very limited scale and what was done by a king who we aren't even sure was a believer.
So your analogy doesn't hold.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

This is on a very limited scale and what was done by a king who we aren't even sure was a believer.
So your analogy doesn't hold.

It is not my analogy, Fred.
What I am saying is it is the analogy used in Scriptures, talking about exaltation of Christ, based on cultural habits of kings at those times.

Another example is the mentioning of exalted Christ sitting to the right of God's throne.
Why to the right? Why not to the left, above or below that throne?
Because those were the ways to honor someone at those times.
(In our times there is a small reminiscence of that: in formal banquets with kings and queens, those sitting to the right next to the queen are sit there because of the special status that means).

When Stephan says that in a vision he is seeing Christ sitting next to God, it does not mean that God has (sorry to say this) buttocks, and literally sits on a throne, and there is another throne to the right. All of these are analogies that worked at that time to let people know Jesus had been exalted by his Father.