Free Gift Of "Salvation: Do you Have It?"

[civic]

That's totally wrong, Why would it be necessity to send the gospel to the saved? If you're saved why would you need the gospel? If you're saved why would you need to be informed that you're saved. Once you're saved you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and you know that you saved. Once you are saved you're a new creation.

What's interesting to me is when a Calvinist goes all for Theistic Fatalism in their thinking that God’s determination of not only the ends but every single desire, thought and action that bring about those ends.

Exactly

 

[civic]

God actually DOES reward the sinner for believing and the word REWARD is also in the New Testament.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 11:6

God says if you utilize the faith the gospel puts in you and you put it into motion by believing, God will saved you or impart eternal life.

Labour not (that means work) don't work or Labour for the meat which perisheth, but for (that means work for) that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (in other words your work is to believe!) John 6:27

You however want to resist the truth that there's a difference between working after the law and the work of faith that Jesus said WE MUST DO!

Well it could be said this way and still be right. He does require us to release our faith and by so doing he DOES reward us with salvation. It's still by grace BECAUSE IT'S NOT a work after the law. Because it's not a work after the law but a work of faith it's still all by grace.

Before you say nope it's still a work then just know you're resisting and in rebellion to Jesus saying believing is a work of faith that men must do! See Jn 6: 27

Amen

 

[Richard]

@Richard



Correct and Christ gives that when He saves a person.

Are you saying that Christ changes your mind for you?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Are you saying that Christ changes your mind for you?

I wouldn't say that, but why would you have a problem with that?

Deuteronomy 30:6 “Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

That's God changing people in order for them to love Him and live. So if you object to God changing a person's mind, you'll have to tell God he's doing something wrong.

 

[Richard]

That's totally wrong, Why would it be necessity to send the gospel to the saved? If you're saved why would you need the gospel? If you're saved why would you need to be informed that you're saved. Once you're saved you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and you know that you saved. Once you are saved you're a new creation.

What's interesting to me is when a Calvinist goes all for Theistic Fatalism in their thinking that God’s determination of not only the ends but every single desire, thought and action that bring about those ends.

The way I see it is in both Theistic Fatalism and Calvinism, if God sovereignly decrees for me to go witness to my neighbor He will give me the effectual desire to go witness to my neighbor. If my neighbor is one of His elect and God has unchangeably elected for me to be the means by which my neighbor comes to Christ, then logically I would have to believe that God will give me the effectual desire and the opportunity to carry out His preordain plan.

So if God ordained the means for my neighbor to hear the gospel then it's only logical that my neighbor would accept the gospel.

If that effectual desire never comes and my neighbor doesn't accept the gospel, then why couldn’t I rightly conclude it ultimately was not God’s pre-ordained plan for me to be the means through which my neighbor would come to Christ?

Calvinism is like a house made of cards. You remove one card in the whole house falls down.

 

[Richard]

I wouldn't say that, but why would you have a problem with that?

Deuteronomy 30:6 “Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

That's God changing people in order for them to love Him and live. So if you object to God changing a person's mind, you'll have to tell God he's doing something wrong.

No God didn't do anything wrong because the whole plan was for him to give himself as a sacrifice. To die in the cross for us. 70 years after the Israelites condoned the crucifixion of Christ they were scattered among the nations until 1947.

The context of Deuteronomy 30:6 is the Israelites’ disobedience and rebellion against God. Despite God’s blessings and deliverance, they have consistently turned away from Him and worshipped other gods. Moses is warning them that if they do not repent and turn back to God, they will be scattered among the nations and experience God’s judgment.

Circumcision is part of the law and Jesus came to fulfill the law. He makes it possible for us to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live. And live we will, for eternity with our Lord and Savior.

Both Testaments focus on the need for repentance and inward change in order to be right with God. In Jesus, the Law has been fulfilled.

Through Him, a person can to believe and be made right with God and receive eternal life.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

As Paul said, true circumcision is a matter of the heart, performed by the Spirit of God. It comes when we choose to accept the gift of salvation.

 

[Rockson]

If my neighbor is one of His elect and God has unchangeably elected for me to be the means by which my neighbor comes to Christ, then logically I would have to believe that God will give me the effectual desire and the opportunity to carry out His preordain plan.

The whole Calvinistic paradigm falls apart on every level.

Let's consider these verses,

"When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand." Ezek 3:18

So we can ask.....if EVERYTHING that occurs is God ordained why would there be anything of a MAN or servant not to deliver the message? If God wanted it done it would be done right and it would be done by the man he instructed to do it. And ALSO....why would the blood be required of the servant? If God ordained them to be saved they'd be saved anyway right?

Calvinism is like a house made of cards.

And Calvinism cards (when it comes to T.U.L.I.P.) are nothing but cards which are jokers. Not the people but their ways of reasoning.

 

[Believe]

"Man's reasoning" Was exactly what went through my mind when I was reading Richard's post. To uphold Man's reasoning that's found in Calvinism they have to twist the scriptures. We've seen it done over and over. They have to redefine God's word. Then there's declaring that translation of the bible is not correct.

Sounds like a defense attorney trying to defend a totally and obviously Guilty As Charged client.

Hang on a second... the verdict just came in... Calvinism is guilty of being a man-made theology. I think The Righteous Judge is going to throw the book at them for trying to deceive people.

 

[Azriel]

Having a right relationship with God begins with acknowledging your sin. Next comes a humble confession of your sin to God. “For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved” Romans 10:10

This repentance must be accompanied by faith – specifically, faith that Jesus’ sacrificial death and resurrection qualify Him to be our Savior. “If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” Romans 10:9

Being right with God is a matter of your response to what God has done on your behalf. He sent the Savior, He provided the sacrifice to take away your sin. Believe it!

He offers you the promise: “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved” Acts 2:21

Many other passages speak of the necessity of faith.

What Does the Bible Say About Faith?

Bible verses about Faith

www.openbible.info

 

[brightfame52]

That's totally wrong, Why would it be necessity to send the gospel to the saved? If you're saved why would you need the gospel? If you're saved why would you need to be informed that you're saved. Once you're saved you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and you know that you saved. Once you are saved you're a new creation.

What's interesting to me is when a Calvinist goes all for Theistic Fatalism in their thinking that God’s determination of not only the ends but every single desire, thought and action that bring about those ends.

No its not wrong.

 

[Believe]

No its not wrong.

You're misquoting me I didn't say it was wrong. I said it was totally wrong. That means completely wrong not an ounce of truth in it. Anyone that could possibly believe that it wasn't Totally wrong. Well He's being deceived.

 

[brightfame52]

Are you saying that Christ changes your mind for you?

He gives repentance which causes the person/s to repent Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

The word repent here is the greek word metanoia

1. a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done

to give one the ability to repent, or to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18;

This is no novel doctrine, Jer 31:19

Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

 

[atpollard]

Conflating faith and works

Strawman

I believe it was a simile. (I always confuse them with metaphors, and allegories) … but he was drawing a comparison between two DIFFERENT things and something that they had in common to make a specific point using a “word picture”.

 

[atpollard]

And Calvinism cards (when it comes to T.U.L.I.P.) are nothing but cards which are jokers. Not the people but their ways of reasoning.

Since this discussion has thrown off all pretext of Christian discourse and devolved into baseless and empty name calling (abandoning scripture for hate filled rhetoric) … I will take my leave and allow you to WALLOW in the filth without me.

Caio.

 

[Believe]

What's really funny is how it's always someone else's fault.

Isn't that the truth.

 

[Richard]

He gives repentance which causes the person/s to repent Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

The word repent here is the greek word metanoia

1. a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done

to give one the ability to repent, or to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18;

This is no novel doctrine, Jer 31:19

Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

So I'm going to assume that you believe God changes your mind for you since I didn't receive a direct answer to the question.

Let me say this about that. It is vitally important that we understand the biblical concept of repentance. It is central, not only to the New Testament, but to all of Scripture. The gospel of Mark begins with the appearance of John the Baptist, who comes out of the wilderness announcing the approach of the kingdom of God.

His message to the people of Israel was very simple: he called them to repentance. He didn't say God is going to cause you to repent. He told them they needed to repent.

Just a short time after this, Jesus began His public ministry, preaching the exact same message: “Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel ” Mark 1:14–15

So the bible clearly shows us that it's something that we need to do. God didn't create robots. We don't have a button that God pushes and changes our Behavior.

Generally speaking, metanoia has to do with the changing of one’s mind with respect to one’s behavior.

In its simplest form, the term metanoia has to do with “the mind afterward,” or, as we might say, “an afterthought.” In the Greek language, it came to mean “a significant changing of one’s mind.”

So, in the most rudimentary sense, the concept of repentance in the Bible means “to change one’s mind.”

We repent, God does not cause us or make us repent. It's something we do willingly.

 

[TibiasDad]

Calvinism is like a house made of cards. You remove one card in the whole house falls down.

This has been my assessment for more than 40 years. The beauty of Calvinism’s structure is also its greatest vulnerability; in order for the system to be true, every part of the system needs to be exactly as it is described. One error, no matter how small, destroys the balance and the whole system collapses.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

So I'm going to assume that you believe God changes your mind for you since I didn't receive a direct answer to the question.

Let me say this about that. It is vitally important that we understand the biblical concept of repentance. It is central, not only to the New Testament, but to all of Scripture. The gospel of Mark begins with the appearance of John the Baptist, who comes out of the wilderness announcing the approach of the kingdom of God.

His message to the people of Israel was very simple: he called them to repentance. He didn't say God is going to cause you to repent. He told them they needed to repent.

Just a short time after this, Jesus began His public ministry, preaching the exact same message: “Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel ” Mark 1:14–15

So the bible clearly shows us that it's something that we need to do. God didn't create robots. We don't have a button that God pushes and changes our Behavior.

Generally speaking, metanoia has to do with the changing of one’s mind with respect to one’s behavior.

In its simplest form, the term metanoia has to do with “the mind afterward,” or, as we might say, “an afterthought.” In the Greek language, it came to mean “a significant changing of one’s mind.”

So, in the most rudimentary sense, the concept of repentance in the Bible means “to change one’s mind.”

We repent, God does not cause us or make us repent. It's something we do willingly.

I believe what I just shared with you, apparently you cant grasp it.

 

[Richard]

I believe what I just shared with you, apparently you cant grasp it.

Oh no I grasped it alright, I just wanted to make sure that was your statement. Whether I believe In your statement is a entirely different matter. Which I don't. You grasp that right?

The term repent at its root means “to change one’s mind.” To repent of sin means to change your mind about sin. At one time we thought sin was good and acceptable and even fun. When we repent, we see sin as evil and harmful. Any change of mind can be described as repentance.

God doesn't change his mind, his ways and thoughts are perfect.

God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it?Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it? Numbers 23:19

He doesn't change our mind either but we can. That's what repentance is all about. If God doesn't change his mind why would he change ours?

 

[civic]

This has been my assessment for more than 40 years. The beauty of Calvinism’s structure is also its greatest vulnerability; in order for the system to be true, every part of the system needs to be exactly as it is described. One error, no matter how small, destroys the balance and the whole system collapses.

Doug

Ditto even Lorraine Boettner had the common sense to admit its true.