civic
Well-known member
God rewards those who seek Him. Seek Him and you will find Him. God is not far away from anyone as He declares. That’s up to man since Gods reveals Himself in many different ways throughout history.
Free Gift Of "Salvation: Do you Have It?"
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atpollard
Well-known member
Even if true, it does not address his accusation in Post #111 or the fact pointed out in Post #115 that his accusation is STILL VALID under FREE WILL.
[He accused God of bringing SHAME upon his name by the very act of creating people that are ultimately damned.]
civic
Well-known member
That’s true with double predestination ( which is false ).
TibiasDad
Well-known member
No it is not, for faith is the only human requirement; to believe that God will save that which legally is not worthy of salvation, solely because God promised.
Faith is the opposite of works in Eph 2:8-9; it is the contrasting element in the human side of the equation. We are saved by grace through faith…not by works.
The result of that faith is not just salvation from God through being born again, it is the temporal fruit of obedience to the commands of Christ, summed up in short by “Love one another!”
It is a misnomer to say that our behavior can neither effect our salvation or discard our salvation. For while the former is true, the faith that is required always produces obedience in increasing measure. (2Pet 1:8) The continuation of sinful behavior is not possible if faith is truly placed. (1John 3:6)
There is a debate about whether one truly saved can revert to previous lifestyle behavior after a long period of not doing so and thus demonstrate the loss of the faith that produced obedience and thereby their relationship with Christ.
I believe it can happen, but this is not the time to elaborate on this point.
Doug
TibiasDad
Well-known member
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes it is, when you require a sinner to do anything to get saved and accepted before God, its works salvation and a departure from Grace.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes according to Eph 2:8-9, making anything an requirement for the sinner to do to ger saved is works and contradicts Eph 2:8-9
atpollard
Well-known member
For Pete’s sake, are you stubborn or incapable of going back to post #115 and seeing that what HE WROTE is just as true for FREE WILL (which denies double predestination) as it would be for even HYPERCALVINISM (which advocated that God shoves the unsaved into sin against their will). So you are missing the point that HE MADE and the comment that I MADE about HIS POINT.
I get it, you hate Calvinism. Unfortunately for you, this has nothing to do with the Doctrines of Grace. He accused God of bringing shame to his name by sending people to hell. Unless you embrace UNIVERSALISM, the problem of posts #111 and #115 remains ignored in your zeal to attack the Doctrines of Grace.
Believe
Active member
God’s Word calls us to “always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have” (1 Peter 3:15, NIV) —
Instead of debating the fate of those who have never heard, we, as Christians, should be doing our best to make sure they do hear. Then they can make up their own minds whether to accept God's free gift of salvation.
Instead of debating the fate of those who have never heard, we, as Christians, should be doing our best to make sure they do hear. Then they can make up their own minds whether to accept God's free gift of salvation.
brightfame52
Well-known member
God makes sure who will hear and believe, thats under His control, He got this Peter said Acts 15:7
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made
choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Acts 28:28
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
John 10:16
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Believe
Active member
God sends Christians out to preach the gospel to the lost, enabling people to Believe in Jesus unto salvation. Romans chapter 10 explains it.
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Yes, perhaps they should look at it this way. In Deuteronomy, God says, "If you do this (follow the law), I will bless you." That's the reward for works of the law.
The non-Calvinist says, "If you do this (have faith), I will save you." Salvation is the reward for the work of faith.
In both cases, the reward is a due payment for a work, and grace is not grace.
atpollard
Well-known member
No disagreement, but let’s face it, a Christian Forum is not really the place to accomplish that. At best, iron sharpens iron [Proverbs 27:17], and at worst, we argue over “foolish controversies” [Titus 3:9] while “biting and devouring” [Galatians 5:15] one another.
Handaan
Active member
The Bible is clear that those who perish without Christ will face an eternity in hell. Jesus’ mandate to evangelize the whole world is still in force.
People need to call on the name of the Lord, but “how . . . can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent?” Romans 10:14–15
Those who have never heard about Jesus Christ desperately need to hear, and that caused Paul to exclaim, “Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!” 1 Corinthians 9:16
People need to call on the name of the Lord, but “how . . . can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent?” Romans 10:14–15
Those who have never heard about Jesus Christ desperately need to hear, and that caused Paul to exclaim, “Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!” 1 Corinthians 9:16
Handaan
Active member
That seems to be the nature of the beast. And yet here we are. We all just need to keep in mind that we're only responsible for our own behavior. I'm sure if we get too full of ourselves and become too disruptive to our fellow members there will be consequences and we only have ourselves to blame.
What's really funny is how it's always someone else's fault.
brightfame52
Well-known member
God makes sure who will hear and believe, that's under His control, He got this. Those whom He saves, He will send them the word of their Salvation Acts 13: 26God sends Christians out to preach the gospel to the lost, enabling people to Believe in Jesus unto salvation. Romans chapter 10 explains it.
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@Believe
Thats wrong, the Gospel of ones Salvation is sent only to the saved, its design is to inform and give assurance to them who have been saved or redeemed by Christ, and regenerated by the Spirit,
otherwise the Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
To the lost and perishing, its a savor of death unto death 2 Cor 2:15-16
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish[lost]:
16 To the one[lost] we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
Thats wrong, the Gospel of ones Salvation is sent only to the saved, its design is to inform and give assurance to them who have been saved or redeemed by Christ, and regenerated by the Spirit,
otherwise the Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
To the lost and perishing, its a savor of death unto death 2 Cor 2:15-16
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish[lost]:
16 To the one[lost] we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
civic
Well-known member
Believe
Active member
That's totally wrong, Why would it be necessity to send the gospel to the saved? If you're saved why would you need the gospel? If you're saved why would you need to be informed that you're saved. Once you're saved you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and you know that you saved. Once you are saved you're a new creation.
What's interesting to me is when a Calvinist goes all for Theistic Fatalism in their thinking that God’s determination of not only the ends but every single desire, thought and action that bring about those ends.
Rockson
Well-known member
God actually DOES reward the sinner for believing and the word REWARD is also in the New Testament.
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 11:6
God says if you utilize the faith the gospel puts in you and you put it into motion by believing, God will saved you or impart eternal life.
Labour not (that means work) don't work or Labour for the meat which perisheth, but for (that means work for) that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (in other words your work is to believe!) John 6:27
You however want to resist the truth that there's a difference between working after the law and the work of faith that Jesus said WE MUST DO!
Well it could be said this way and still be right. He does require us to release our faith and by so doing he DOES reward us with salvation. It's still by grace BECAUSE IT'S NOT a work after the law. Because it's not a work after the law but a work of faith it's still all by grace.
Before you say nope it's still a work then just know you're resisting and in rebellion to Jesus saying believing is a work of faith that men must do! See Jn 6: 27
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