Free Gift Of "Salvation: Do you Have It?"

[atpollard]

Believing in Jesus is not a work. Confessing with your mouth is not a work. Believing in your heart is not a work. Turning from your sin is not a work.

Just for the record ...

Romans 10:5-13 [NASB95]

For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same [Lord] is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."​

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... they might actually be REQUIRED.

 

[Brandy]

Just for the record ...

Romans 10:5-13 [NASB95]

For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same [Lord] is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."​

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... they might actually be REQUIRED.

They most certainly are required, but they are not works of righteousness that we perform to earn our salvation.

 

[atpollard]

They most certainly are required, but they are not works of righteousness that we perform to earn our salvation.

Well, depending on EXACTLY how one thinks the Holy Spirit "helps" us (He is called the 'Helper'), they MIGHT be works of righteousness ... just not works of OUR righteousness. More like His Righteousness working "in/through" us.

... but definitely not how we EARN our salvation.

 

[Fellow Traveler]

You make your repentance a condition to get saved, works, works and more works, you have denied Grace !

There's a difference between works and requirements you're confusing the two.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

There's a difference between works and requirements you're confusing the two.

Here's the problem. Where did you get the faith required to be saved? That's the difference between you and the unsaved. Whoever did that deserves the glory. If you had faith of your own free will, then you deserve the glory for that faith. If God did it, then God deserves the Glory.

 

[Fellow Traveler]

Here's the problem. Where did you get the faith required to be saved? That's the difference between you and the unsaved. Whoever did that deserves the glory. If you had faith of your own free will, then you deserve the glory for that faith. If God did it, then God deserves the Glory.

It's not a problem for me. I know how I got saved. And we always are to give God the glory. Because I chose to believe in what Jesus did doesn't mean I deserve glory. What are you coming up with that?

Do we need to do a little study on faith?

Now Calvinism on the other hand think they deserve the glory because they're one of the elect. A few chosen ones. And their god sends everyone else to eternal damnation because they don't have the ability to choose him. That's the problem.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

It's not a problem for me. I know how I got saved. And we always are to give God the glory. Because I chose to believe in what Jesus did doesn't mean I deserve glory. What are you coming up with that?

You chose to believe. It was your will. Therefore you get some of the glory. If God enabled you to believe where you couldn't possibly believe otherwise, then God gets the glory. It's very simple.

 

[brightfame52]

There's a difference between works and requirements you're confusing the two.

Apparently you are confused my friend.

 

[Foster]

Here's the problem. Where did you get the faith required to be saved? That's the difference between you and the unsaved. Whoever did that deserves the glory. If you had faith of your own free will, then you deserve the glory for that faith. If God did it, then God deserves the Glory.

It's not a problem. A sinner can hear the gospel and listen to the call of God in the gospel and make a decision to have faith and to believe.
We definitely have free will. God does not coerce people to accept Him, but He persuades them with tactics that cannot be refused.

In my case he showed me what a mess I had made with my life and offered me a new life in Christ.

So we have free will to decide who we will serve. “Now fear the Lord and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. ...Joshua 24:14-18

Each of us has a choice to obey or disobey God. This choice must not be coerced or predetermined in anyway by God, since unless the choice is free, we cannot be held responsible for our actions.

He offers salvation to everyone yet He will not force anyone to come to Him. He gives us a choice to exercise our free will.

For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. Titus 2:11

 

[Fellow Traveler]

You chose to believe. It was your will. Therefore you get some of the glory. If God enabled you to believe where you couldn't possibly believe otherwise, then God gets the glory. It's very simple.

So how glory do I get by believing? Is there a sliding scale? If I believe real hard do I get like a bucketful. And if I only believe a little teensy bit do I get a thimble full?

Let's be real whether we choose to believe or choose not to believe in Jesus it doesn't affect who God is or his glory. God created this world for the praise of the glory of his grace displayed supremely in the death and resurrection of Jesus. Our belief in our faith in Jesus glorifies God,

We have been redeemed by Christ not only to have our sins forgiven and enjoy God's eternal blessings, but to be recreated in the image and likeness of Jesus. As Jesus imaged the Father, we have been saved to image Jesus. He is the model of God's will for our human life.

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. Colossians 1:15

So how does one glorify God? Look no further than Jesus, the Word of God made flesh who dwelt among us. When you accept and believe in him you glorify God.

I chose to believe in Jesus by my own free will and I give God all the glory. I thank him for making that possible.

 

[Believe]

So how much is this for a do I get by believing? Is there a sliding scale? If I believe real hard do I get like a bucketful. And if I only believe a little teensy bit do I get a thimble full?

Let's be real whether we choose to believe or choose not to believe in Jesus it doesn't affect who God is or his glory. God created this world for the praise of the glory of his grace displayed supremely in the death and resurrection of Jesus. Our belief in our faith in Jesus glorifies God,

We have been redeemed by Christ not only to have our sins forgiven and enjoy God's eternal blessings, but to be recreated in the image and likeness of Jesus. As Jesus imaged the Father, we have been saved to image Jesus. He is the model of God's will for our human life.

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. Colossians 1:15

So how does one glorify God? Look no further than Jesus, the Word of God made flesh who dwelt among us. When you accept and believe in him you glorify God.

I chose to believe in Jesus by my own free will and I give God all the glory. I thank him for making that possible.

How much glory does God receive by creating the vast majority of people who are not capable of choosing to believe in Jesus and get saved? And then sending them to eternal damnation?

Especially since what 1 Timothy 2:3–6 tells us.

This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

It seems to me that God is most glorified by the fact that some of his creatures freely value and choose him and want to enter into a personal relationship with Him. This seems far more glorifying than the thought of God which has him needing to irresistibly control the wills a few of His creatures to love and trust him. How is that glorifying to God?

 

[civic]

You chose to believe. It was your will. Therefore you get some of the glory. If God enabled you to believe where you couldn't possibly believe otherwise, then God gets the glory. It's very simple.

False dichotomy . I chose to believe the gospel and Jesus gets the glory .

Any more fallacies ?

 

[Believe]

False dichotomy . I chose to believe the gospel and Jesus gets the glory .

Any more fallacies ?

Give God the glory and he will give you the victory.

 

[civic]

Give God the glory and he will give you the victory.

That’s my motto Amen

 

[atpollard]

How much glory does God receive by creating the vast majority of people who are not capable of choosing to believe in Jesus and get saved? And then sending them to eternal damnation?

See, I don’t quite understand that sort of thinking. You say that as if FREE WILL makes all the difference.

How much glory does God receive by creating the vast majority of people who are capable of choosing to believe in Jesus and don’t get saved? And then sending them to eternal damnation?

Itzcoatl was the first king of the Aztec Empire and died in 1440 (before Columbus arrived in the Americas with the Gospel), so how was he created by God capable of choosing to believe in Jesus?​

I really don’t see how “FREE WILL” suddenly changes the equation the way that your accusations against the Doctrines of Grace seem to imply.

 

[Believe]

Itzcoatl was the first king of the Aztec Empire and died in 1440 (before Columbus arrived in the Americas with the Gospel), so how was he created by God capable of choosing to believe in Jesus?​

Easy, Since the gospel was never presented to him The opportunity of making a choice to believe in Jesus was unavailable. there was no choice for him to make. He probably wasn't one of the elect either since they were doing all the human sacrifices.

 

[atpollard]

Easy, Since the gospel was never presented to him The opportunity of making a choice to believe in Jesus was unavailable. there was no choice for him to make. He probably wasn't one of the elect either since they were doing all the human sacrifices.

There are no elect … I was speaking of the issue from the FREE WILL position.
HOW is your accusation against CALVINISM not an accusation against GOD when it remains every bit as true under the FREE WILL model of salvation?

 

[atpollard]

Easy, Since the gospel was never presented to him The opportunity of making a choice to believe in Jesus was unavailable. there was no choice for him to make. He probably wasn't one of the elect either since they were doing all the human sacrifices.

Are you actually taking the official position that everyone that never hears the gospel was created to be damned? Just for the record, that is not Calvinism, that is HYPERCALVINISM and is contradicted by the book of Romans (that stuff about “those without the Law …”).

 

[civic]

Are you actually taking the official position that everyone that never hears the gospel was created to be damned? Just for the record, that is not Calvinism, that is HYPERCALVINISM and is contradicted by the book of Romans (that stuff about “those without the Law …”).

God is self evident via creation as per Romans 1 so that all are without excuse.

 

[atpollard]

God is self evident via creation as per Romans 1 so that all are without excuse.

I agree, but it sidesteps my actual point from way back in post #115 about his point in post #111 applying equally to both ELECTION (Calvinism) and FREE WILL (Arminianism) … making it an attack on God rather than an attack on Doctrine.